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Posted - Wednesday, January 31, 2007  -  2:11 PM Reply with quote

Reply: No brother, this is ur understanding that u think so but to whom it fits do u have any confirmation in the regard, if yes then plz produce.

A very immature question!!! With best intentions, again go through whole of this forum from first to the last page, you will do find the solid confirmation.

Do u not see here that obedience of Muhammad is mentioned first seperately and later it is said to follow the light (Quran) seperately in the end. if both are same i.e to follow messeger is to follow Quran, then Y Allah gave this verse seperately in the end.

What a whimsical and baseless statement is!!! Bring the single verse of Noble Qura’n, which support Obeying Mohammad, which is NOT same as Obeying the messenger. The difference between Obeying Mohammad and Obeying the messenger is very simple but the SHIELD of God prevents you to understand. Afala Taqelun?

So the hidaya is always given by Allah Him Self, we only can do our efforts.We can not made some one understand any thing even which is very visible from the verses of Quran,unless Allah wish it as well.

WOW!!! You are defining yourself very well!!!!!

The corrupted community not understanding the very simple difference between Obey the messenger and Obey Mohammad CAN NOT understand further because of the SHIELDS [17:45,46] placed by God upon their hearts, ears and eyes etc.

There was a point which Kuffar-e-Makkah want to let him understand but when ever they say to him this thing he always refuses and say why I become muslim I will never.

Because he could not leave the religion of his forefathers like the so called muslims of today can not leave the fabricated hadith based ideas of their forefathers.

usmani790, Cares, hkhan, raushan and the others……

As said by sksamshirali, your conclusions and beliefs are absolutely whimsical and baseless, because of having NO reference in the the Qur’an.

[69:40-47]This (Quran) is the utterance of an honorable messenger. It is not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe. Nor is it the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed. A revelation from the Lord of the universe. HAD HE EVER UTTERED ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS UTTERANCES (attributed to us), we would have punished him severely, then we would have stopped the revelation to him (fired him). None of you could have protected him against us.

These very clear verses teach us that Muhammad was forbidden from uttering any religious teachings beside Qura’n. The strength of the Arabic text cannot be fully translated to English. But the powerful expressions leave NO doubt whatsoever that the Prophet's sole function was to "DELIVER" Qura’n, the whole Quran, and NOTHING but Qura’n.

Many who corrupt God's truth to uphold their own idolatry are guilty of deliberately hiding important issues inside the scripture from the people. God sends messengers to expose the idolatry of such people and to reveal these prime issues:

EXCELLENT!!!, AGREED!!!!!!!!!!

why these people (quran only group)has so much enthusiasm and zeal in denouncing Hadith.

It is the open decision of Allah and his messenger NOT anyone else to REFUTE the Hadith, its inventors and the followers.

[6: 114,115]Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He revealed THIS BOOK FULLY DETAILED? The word of your Lord is COMPLETE in truth & justice.

[39: 45]When God ALONE is advocated, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink with aversion. But when idols are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice.

[7: 40]Surely, those who do not believe our revelations, and are too arrogant to heed them, the gates of the sky never open for them, nor will they ever enter Paradise until the camel passes through the needle's eye. We thus requite the guilty.

Posted - Wednesday, January 31, 2007  -  3:07 PM Reply with quote

Oh! for so long I was lost

I know very well!!!

Posted - Thursday, February 1, 2007  -  2:39 AM Reply with quote

according to you, of myself and most of the people on this board, their hearts are sealed, they are deaf dumb and blind, they will not see the light.


So the moderator also permits him to brand others as infidels, mutes, idiots and what not?

Non one is branding but the Noble Qura’n!!!!!!

Oh! for so long I was lost

I know it very well!!!

Edited by: Zulfee on Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:50 AM

Posted - Thursday, February 1, 2007  -  2:17 PM Reply with quote

The Quran mentions prophet Jesus(as) saying:

(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.” – [Quran 3:50]

Thus it is seen that Prophet Jesus(as) did bring a change in the law and thus is referred to as in the Quran as a Messenger. Prophet Ibrahim(as) did not bring a law but did receive a book and thus is referred to
as only a Prophet.

Posted - Thursday, February 1, 2007  -  7:24 PM Reply with quote
Quote: So the moderator also permits him to brand others as infidels, mutes, idiots and what not?

Please rest assure that such participants are under constant surviellance and if they continued to reflect in their postings that actually they are not interested in learning and understanding, rather just wasting their own and others' time and using inappropriate language, they shall be penalized as per the Disclaimer/Code of Conduct of these forums.Our Senior Members specially deserve due respect and consideration who, since a while have been positively contributing to our forums.

Studying Islam aims at healthy exchange of opinions in a secure and descent environment insh'Allah

Posted - Friday, February 2, 2007  -  5:35 PM Reply with quote
Mr. Biased Moderator,

they are not interested in learning and understanding, rather just wasting their own and others' time and using inappropriate language, they shall be penalized as per the Disclaimer/Code of Conduct of these forums.

Would you like to use the Disclaimer/Code of Conduct of these forums, if it is provided you the living references of your beloved rude and arrogant participants as you quoted?

Our Senior Members specially deserve due respect and consideration who, since a while have been positively contributing to our forums.

You are WRONG and telling a lie!!!

Edited by: Zulfee on Monday, February 19, 2007 4:08 PM

Posted - Monday, February 5, 2007  -  9:26 AM Reply with quote
As informed earlier this post is being sent to the poster in order to summarize and resend or to send to Articles section please to be reviewed and uploaded if acceptable.
Thank you j.k.

Edited by: hkhan on Monday, February 05, 2007 9:21 PM

Posted - Monday, February 5, 2007  -  9:31 AM Reply with quote
In continuation of previous reply......

Chapter 4/80: Whoever obeyed the messenger, so indeed he has obeyed Allah…

Traditional Muslims usually try to justify the use of Hadith by saying that Allah is obeyed by obeying Al-Quran, while the messenger is obeyed by obeying the Hadiths. But Hadiths just doesn’t fit in this verse(4:80) at all. If we suppose that ‘obeying the messenger’ indeed means ‘obeying the Hadiths’, then it would mean that whoever has obeyed Hadiths, by doing so he has obeyed Allah as well i.e. BOTH the messenger and Allah have been obeyed through the Hadith. And if that is true then what is the use of Al-Quran? This interpretation of theirs would mean that Al-Quran is useless.
Also, Al-Quran uses a singular pronoun when referring to Allah and the messenger:

Chapter 8/20: O those who believe! Obey Allah AND His messenger and do not turn back from HIM while you hear.

It means that obedience to both Allah and His messenger is the same thing, and both are obeyed through a single source. That source cannot be the Hadith.

to be continued.........


Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007  -  9:34 AM Reply with quote
This post has been removed due to extensive length.
As requested before, please summarize and resend the post. Thank you

Edited by: imran776 on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:25 PM

Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007  -  9:52 AM Reply with quote
This post has been sensored due to the usage of inappropriate language.
Participants are requested to mind their language and give due respect to other participants, otherwise kindly leave the forums.
Studying Islam aims to promote healthy exchange of views in a respectable environment keeping in view norms of manners.

Thank you and Assalamu alaykum.

Edited by: imran776 on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:28 PM

Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007  -  9:55 AM Reply with quote
Salam to all,

In continuation of my reply to brother cares opinion…………..

Quote: y ? , was he not a human when he delivered God’s message? Or became angel during delivering the words of God.

MY REPLY:- Because then he did not speak out of his personal desire. (53:2-5). Brother please read Qur’an carefully and try to understand It before arguing with me.

Quote : it means u agree that when he judges right, we are bound to obey him?, then what this obediency is of Prophet Muhammad as personal.

MY REPLY:- This verse addressed to those women who seek ASYLUM with Muhammad. Muhammad is not alive now. Also no one can obey him now as personal. We can only obey his message i.e. Qur’an.

My Quote: Qur’an never says about any un-recited revelation, taking them as religious source and Qur’an never says about hadith, sunnah(fabricated and attributed them to Muhammad), taking them as religious source.

your Reply: (un-recited revelations, i have quoted ur own said stat. abt Shouab & Hood, Plz give response),

MY REPLY :- I have already said all about the subject. Messengers who do not bring a new scripture promote the previous scripture. They reform the distortions and invite their people to monotheism with wisdom and evidence.

Quote: Obedincy of Prophet Muhammad brought these things i.e sunnah, hadith, and obedience of him, is our religious source mentioned in several places of Holy Quran.

MY REPLY:- Please provide only one place where you found that Qur’an supports your whims.

The only religious source of Islam is Qur’an and nothing else(6:114-115). Qur’an does not mention any Sunnah of Muhammad. It says only about Almighty Allah’s Sunnah. Also Qur’an does say anything about fabricated hadith of Muhammad. It says only about Itself.


Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007  -  9:57 AM Reply with quote
In continuation to brother cares opinion.......

Quote: Here people are told about a prophet who is standing among them, Allah is reminding them the previous covenant with previous prophets. If I here agree that prophet Muhammad was included yet, it does not mean, that the next “ afterward” messenger is not Muhammad.

Suppose brother, u know that Allah took covenant from all people also, yet people are coming or taking birth on this earth after one by one.

If prophet Muhammad was also included in this covenant yet he has to come at his time, because he was called a prophet at that time. And u agreed that every prophet is also a messenger. Because according to u, u can call a prophet a messenger. Is’nt?(I think u will try to understand, because I coud not explain it more fully because of less vocabulary).

MY REPLY:- 3:81 clearly says that the covenant was taken from the PROPHETS. As Muhammad was a prophet, it is logical to think that Muhammad was also included in this covenant.

2ndly, If Almighty Allah took this covenant from previous prophets(excluding Muhammad) as you opined then HE would not have said Muhammad that “GOD took a covenant from the PROPHETS” as he was also a prophet. This simply means that GOD took this covenant also from Muhammad.

"God took a covenant from the PROPHETS, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. AFTERWARDS, a MESSENGER will come to CONFIRM all existing scriptures…”

Here the word AFTERWARDS is very indicative. It clearly means that after all the Scriptures & Prophets, a messenger will come to confirm the scripture… So this messenger will not be a prophet or not bring any new scripture. He will only come to confirm the scripture, which is the duty of this particular messenger.

Moreover, Muhammad did not come to confirm the scriptures. He came to deliver a new scripture i.e. Qur’an. So he was not the messenger about whom this verse 3:81 says. Verse 33:7 also confirms that Prophet Muhammad was also included in this covenant of 3:81.

Now please see if I translate the verse 3:81 according to your whims, then let us see what will be the meaning of the verse;

“GOD took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, Muhammad will come to confirm all existing scriptures( not deliver a new scripture) You(including Muhammad because he was a prophet) shall believe in him(Muhammad) and support him(Muhammad) {that means Muhammad believed & support on himself}" He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They(including Muhammad) said, "We agree."(that means Muhammad was also agreed the above covenant that he supports & believed on himself!!!!) He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."

ILLOGICAL!!!!! I have no language to explain your logic except ILLOGICAL.


Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007  -  9:59 AM Reply with quote
In continuation of my reply to brother cares opinion

Quote: Brother u think that for taking covenant, is it necessary, that all should be gathered at a time, no brother It is not nessary,
Supose brother, Allah took covenant from Noah (as) hundred thousands years ago, when he was sent to his nation, after more thousands years later, Allah took covenant from Abraham, when he was sent to his nation, after the few years later Allah took covenant from Jesus (as) so… then here in last, can Allah not say that he took covenants from the prophets? Is’nt. (this is just for argument sake example) where as I believe that this was a reminder mentioned in as future tense as brother Usmani explained very well.

MY REPLY:- Then according to your same logic after 500 + years later Almighty God took the covenant from Muhammad. Isn’t ?

2ndly, Almighty Allah took the covenant from US also (as you opined). Then according to your logic Almighty God took this covenant separately from you from me…..from all people past, present one by one and will be taken from future people one by one. Isn’t? What a logic!!!

What mr. Usmani explained is nothing but conjecture as you explained.

Quote:- In last i would like to say that if any one has still a dout to follow Sunnah, he should read all pages of this forum, he will find that brother samsher is failed to prove the Quran only sorece for guiadance of humankind.

MY REPLY :- Blind can’t see the light. Let us see what Qur’an says;

[2:1-5] A.L.M. THIS SCRIPTURE IS INFALLIBLE; A BEACON FOR THE RIGHTEOUS; who believe in the unseen, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and from our provisions to them, they give to charity. And they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, and with regard to the Hereafter, they are absolutely certain. These are guided by their Lord; these are the winners.

[6:114] SHALL I SEEK OTHER THAN GOD AS A SOURCE OF LAW, WHEN HE HAS REVEALED TO YOU THIS BOOK FULLY DETAILED? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

[6:115] The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, IN TRUTH AND JUSTICE. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

[2:97] Say, "Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with GOD's will, confirming previous scriptures, AND PROVIDING GUIDANCE AND GOOD NEWS FOR THE BELIEVERS."

[2:185] Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed, PROVIDING GUIDANCE FOR THE PEOPLE, CLEAR TEACHINGS, AND THE STATUTE BOOK. Those of you who witness this month shall fast therein. Those who are ill or traveling may substitute the same number of other days. GOD wishes for you convenience, not hardship, that you may fulfill your obligations, and to glorify GOD for guiding you, and to express your appreciation.

[16:64] We have revealed this scripture to you, to point out for them what they dispute, and TO PROVIDE GUIDANCE AND MERCY FOR PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE.

[16:89] The day will come when we will raise from every community a witness from among them, and bring you as the witness of these people. WE HAVE REVEALED TO YOU THIS BOOK TO PROVIDE EXPLANATIONS FOR EVERYTHING, AND GUIDANCE, AND MERCY, AND GOOD NEWS FOR THE SUBMITTERS.

[10:37] This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD. It confirms all previous messages, AND PROVIDES A FULLY DETAILED SCRIPTURE. IT IS INFALLIBLE, FOR IT COMES FROM THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE.


[41:1-3] H. M. A revelation from the Most Gracious, Most Merciful. A SCRIPTURE WHOSE VERSES PROVIDE THE COMPLETE DETAILS, IN AN ARABIC QURAN, for people who know.
Brother, I don’t see any difference between you and an idolworshiper.

[17:46] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, USING THE QURAN ALONE, they run away in aversion.

Lastly I want to convey you the following message;

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

Samsher Ali

Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007  -  11:37 AM Reply with quote

Reply: Surely u will be busy in finding/collecting R.K's more articals/stuffs in suport of ur own whims, I also will try to reply u in a better way If I know ur complete replies ...Inshalllah

MY REPLY:- Brother I replied to your whims by using only Qur’an. If you think that I am wrong, then prove yourself by using only Qur'an and not by using garbage(i think) like fabricated hadith. Moreover, I have already given my reply to your same idiotic questions, may be raised by some other person named as usmani……, before. It is not possible for me to give the reply to the same idiotic questions again and again. Whatever may be, this time I already gave my reply to your whims once again. Please read that.

Oh…. Your reply? you could not yet provide any quranic verse in support of your whims till date rather conjecture. When you will be able to provide reference from the Qur'an, you pl. tell me, I shall Inshallah response you.

Till then good bye…..


Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007  -  11:50 AM Reply with quote
Question: "Please tell me first which book(s) according to your opinion claimed that it was/they were from God?


Answer: Bible claims that it is from God in the following way:

"All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice."

Timothy 3:16

Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007  -  1:11 PM Reply with quote
The post has been removed due to execcive length. Please summarize and resend.However if it remains more than A4 page size, please send to Articles section for review.
If you wish to have a copy your post back, it can be sent via email.
Thank you

Edited by: imran776 on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:31 PM

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