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usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, July 30, 2007  -  12:12 PM Reply with quote
It so happens some time that the people try to ascribe certain meanings to their faith which is not supported by the holy book. In that way they try to be an advocate of something which is not there in the book. That means they are cleverer than the book. The book is quiet and does not make any claim or making an opposite claim but the people try to make the claim being wiser than the Holy book Quran.They say that Quran is called AI-Furgan because it is the Criterion for judging right and wrong which is very true but in reality what they believe they are not doing.When they say any thing in the matter of religion, they just rely on their thoughts and failing to provide any reference from the holy book.

Every claim must be supported by the book and the reasons for the claim should also be given from the original book. Not from one self.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, July 30, 2007  -  7:34 PM Reply with quote
thnx every1 for your postings and trying to discuss in a healthy environment, restraining your anger and reaction in response to difference of opinion-this is what studying islam aims at.
also, another thread is already there re:Qur'n and Sunnah, as well as the course forums on this topic.
this thread links to 'tasawwuf'
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, August 01, 2007  -  4:56 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Yes we have follow the Companions of the Prophet(pbuh) in addition to the Prophet himself.This is what Prophet(pbuh) Himself has said in the hadith.


The Hdith often quoted is:

quote:

You must follow my Sunna

and

the Sunna of the rightly guided, upright successors after me.


Hope you remember that for Friday prayers only one Adhaan was pronounced during the days of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.

Khalifa Uthman R.A. introduced a second Adhaan in the market place which practice was discontinued after sometime.

Now we see in most mosques in India Two Adhaans being called out from within the mosque. The people who insist on this say that it was the same adhhaan that was introduced by Uthman R.A. brought into the mosque from the marketplace.

Now,if you call only one Adhan you obey the first part ("you must follow my sunnah")

but you are disobeying the second part of the fragment of Hadith("the Sunna of the rightly guided, upright successors after me.")

Similarly if you insist in calling two Adhaans for Jum'a,

you are obeying the second part of the Hadith,

while deliberately disobeying the first part (You must follow my Sunnah)

So brother Usmani, please tell me how one can follow both the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam and the rightly guided Sahabah under such circumstances.
Dalmir

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, August 01, 2007  -  5:32 PM Reply with quote
So far as your post is concerned, how do you defend yourself?
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, August 02, 2007  -  2:32 AM Reply with quote
quote:

So far as your post is concerned, how do you defend yourself?


I consider the second Adhaan to be a 'bi'dah' (an innovation)which must be avoided because the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam has said:"every newly introduced matter in Religion is a misguidance"
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, August 02, 2007  -  12:14 PM Reply with quote
To me by calling two adhan we are following the complte hadith.I am not sure but as you said the second adhan may be considered bidah but since it also the order of Prophet(pbuh) that to follow the rightly guided successors after Him so if it is bidah but must be a good bidah.

Only rightly guided successors were authrised to introduced it and no one elsc.

And Allah knows the best
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Friday, August 03, 2007  -  6:08 AM Reply with quote
quote:

if it is bidah but must be a good bidah.


The saying that some Bid'ahs are good and that not every Bid'ah is a sin, rather some Bid'ahs are good is a clear misguidance.

quote:

rightly guided successors were authrised to introduced it



Who authorised them and when? Please provide proof..
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, August 03, 2007  -  2:51 PM Reply with quote
Quote:-The saying that some Bid'ahs are good and that not every Bid'ah is a sin, rather some Bid'ahs are good is a clear misguidance.


It will good if you could give some refference for it.

Quote:-Who authorised them and when? Please provide proof..


the Sunna of the rightly guided, upright successors after me.

So having two adhan was the Sunnah of Khalifa Uthman R.A and he was the rightly guided, upright successors of Prophet(pbuh).
waseem

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, August 04, 2007  -  6:30 AM Reply with quote
Quote:so if it is bidah but must be a good bidah.

bro Usmani, the statement is a contradiction. Bidah cannot be good.
rishadrizvi

INDIA
Posted - Saturday, August 04, 2007  -  8:22 AM Reply with quote
The Hdith often quoted is:

quote:

You must follow my Sunna

and

the Sunna of the rightly guided, upright successors after me.


Brothers,
The above Quote I think Simply means :

Follow my Sunna and After me only Rightly guided upright successors(No Saints, Sufis or Scholars) are authorised to make slight amendments or additions according to the change or need of that Particular condition for that Particular time.(New introduction according to new condition. The new Introduction should be stopped on return of old condition.)

Quote----------------------------------
Hope you remember that for Friday prayers only one Adhaan was pronounced during the days of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.

Khalifa Uthman R.A. introduced a second Adhaan in the market place which practice was discontinued after sometime.

Now we see in most mosques in India Two Adhaans being called out from within the mosque. The people who insist on this say that it was the same adhhaan that was introduced by Uthman R.A. brought into the mosque from the marketplace.

---------------------------------------
Ans:Second Adhan in the marketplace that was introduced by Uthman R.A so that the people who were far away or lost in the hustle-bustle of Bazaar would not miss their prayers.
Now with the Introduction of loudspeakers such a practice is just a Ritual which has no use(Bidah) and we should revert back to the original practice.(I'm sure Uthman R.A would have stopped this practice if Loudspeakers were introduced in his time)
This Practice is Justified in the interior Villages or Townships without electricity or sound systems.

Quote----------------------------------
So brother Usmani, please tell me how one can follow both the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam and the rightly guided Sahabah under such circumstances.


---------------------------------------
I hope the above explaination answers the Question for Usmani if he agrees with me.
Allah Knows Best.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Saturday, August 04, 2007  -  8:44 AM Reply with quote
usmani790 - PAKISTAN Posted - Friday, August 03, 2007 - 2:51 PM Text

quote:

quote:

The saying that some Bid'ahs are good and that not every Bid'ah is a sin, rather some Bid'ahs are good is a clear misguidance.

It will good if you could give some refference for it.


Allah says:

“Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord (the Qur'aan and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhaamd (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam) and follow not any Auliya (protectors, or helper etc. who order you to associate partners in worship with Allah), besides Him (Allah)…” Text
[Soorah Al-Aa’raf (7): 3]

From the Tafseer (explanation) of this verse, we learn that this verse is a definite statement, explaining the right of Allah Alone; to reveal and command His slaves, the manners of worshipping Him. And how could it be otherwise, when the true meaning of 'Ibaadah' is to worship Allah in the way, which pleases Him, not following one's own desires. As is known from the following verse:


"And who is more astray then one who follows his own lust (desires) without the guidance from Allah (revelation)"[/b]
[Soorah Al-Qasas (28): 50]

In regards to this Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said:


"I warn you of the newly invented matters (in the religion), and every newly invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the Hellfire"

[An-Nasa'ee]

And he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) used to declare at the beginning of his lectures,

"….and the best speech is the Speech of Allah, and the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), and the worst of all affairs are the newly invented matters (in the religion)" [Saheeh Muslim]

And he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) also commanded us, to reject everything, which has no basis in the religion saying:

“Whosoever does an action, which we have not commanded then it must be rejected." [Saheeh Muslim]

"Whosoever introduces into this religion of ours that which is not a part of it then it must be rejected” [Musnad Ahmad]

In this Hadeeth is a clear evidence that every action which is not legislated in the Sharee'ah must be rejected’ [Jaami al-Ulum of ibn Rajab 1/120]

Consequently, every Bid'ah, that is introduced in the religion has to be rejected as for the reason that only Allah and His Messenger (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) have the right to legislate in the Sharee'ah.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, August 04, 2007  -  2:37 PM Reply with quote
Our Prophet’s (saws) Words Regarding the Blessed Uthman (ra)

Verily, the angels stand abashed before Uthman as they stand abashed before God and His Prophet."

Uthman is the humblest of my community and also the most munificent.

After the Prophet Lot (as), Uthman was the first to go on an emigration with his family.

Every prophet has a companion in paradise. My companion there is Uthman.

O Allah! Lift doomsday, grief and suffering from Uthman, because he has lifted our suffering.

Uthman is with me, and I with him.

In the time of hazrat Usman (RA) he order an additional adhan for the people who are in Bazar.He was the Khalifah of the time and he find its good to let the people who are in bazar bussy in the work that the Jummah prayer is going to begun.Adhan is not the act of ibadah.

No learned person ever objected on this then who are you.He knows 1000 time more about the deen than you knows.Don't go after such thing and try to prove stupid things.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Saturday, August 04, 2007  -  3:17 PM Reply with quote
In the time of hazrat Usman (RA) he order an additional adhan for the people who are in Bazar.................
No learned person ever objected on this then who are you.

Where have I objected to Uthman R.A. for the additional Adhaan in the Bazar?

Please read my post. I have told you that an additional Adhaan is being proclaimed from Masjids in India.
Do you know who started it. Now dont tell me it is the same Adhaan of the marketplace brought into the mosque.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, August 04, 2007  -  4:58 PM Reply with quote
Narrated As-Saib bin Yazid: In the life-time of the Prophet, Abu Bakr and Umar, the Adhan for the jumua prayer used to be pronounced when the Imam sat on the pulpit. But during the Caliphate of 'Uthman when the Muslims increased in number, a third Adhan at Az-Zaura' was added. Abu 'Abdullah said, "Az-Zaura' is a place in the market of Medina." (Sahih Bukhari Book #13, Hadith #35)

So there used to be two adhan in Jummah before Him and it was the third adhan which was added by Hazrat Utman (RA)
waseem

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, August 07, 2007  -  6:32 AM Reply with quote
Bro Usmani, either we say we follow the sunnah of prophet pbuh and if he has directed us to practice Islam in a divinely guided way then that is part of our religion.If the sahabha and the preceding Khalifah can alter the saying of prophet then what about our content of deen and its origin from Prophet pbuh. Are we saying that sahabha and khulfa i rashideen are also source of deen and can alter and change the corpus of deen?
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, August 07, 2007  -  12:42 PM Reply with quote
Quote:-If the sahabha and the preceding Khalifah can alter the saying of prophet then what about our content of deen and its origin from Prophet pbuh.

First thing one need to know that sahabah never attempted to alter the religion as it was brought by the Prophet(pbuh).There are only couple matters of these kind which we can seen in the role of Kulfa-e-Rashadeen only.The act of adding one adhan in the market place to me(I may be wrong)was just an administrative action try to make sure that more people may attend the Jummah prayer.Those days they don’t used to watches on their rest neither the adhan can be heard from the mosque.

Quote:-Are we saying that sahabha and khulfa i rashideen are also source of deen and can alter and change the corpus of deen?

Fuqaha always gave importance to igma of sahabah if the matter is not available in the Quran and Sunnah.But the true source of religion always the Quran and Sunnah.

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