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Posted - Monday, April 23, 2007  -  10:39 AM Reply with quote

What has your present discussion to do under heading "The Place of Tasawwuf in Traditional Islam"?

Absolutely nothing. It was purely in response to part of posting by Dalmir.
But it is only a minor portion of a reply

Posted - Monday, April 23, 2007  -  5:17 PM Reply with quote

Shame you did not bother to read what I wrote or perhaps did not full understand, so here it is again:

A big, Same to you, perv1. afla taaqeloon.
What a overconfidence is!

Edited by: Dalmir on Monday, April 23, 2007 5:47 PM

Posted - Monday, April 23, 2007  -  5:33 PM Reply with quote
you are again deliberately hiding your mistakes and totally incapable of answering.You are completely struck off now, Perv 1.
Someone else knowledgeable is requested to explain.

Posted - Tuesday, April 24, 2007  -  8:48 AM Reply with quote

Tassawwuf is all, what is called SHIRK.

This is a bold ,generalised statement and I am afraid it may not be correct.
how can you relate tassawwuf with shirk without defining it clearly.
care to reply

Posted - Thursday, April 26, 2007  -  10:38 AM Reply with quote
Dalmir-you have been welcomed into the forums but plz see that your language whilst conversing with your colleague participants remains decent. phrases like 'shame on you' and 'you are completely struck off' will not be tolerated.
it must be realized that many a members here could be older than you in age and experience. and anyway basic manners of conversation apply wherever we go.

plz try and continue to learn in a healthy environment rather than in an env of anger and arrogance as these come from nowhere but saten the outcaste against whom we ought to be on guard 24/7

Posted - Thursday, April 26, 2007  -  10:39 AM Reply with quote
vide infra something very important to understand some of the drawbacks of some of the schools ofthought in tasawwuf:

adapted from tadabbur e Qur'an -commentary on surah ar'af -7/143

'qa'la rabbe areni unzur ilaeka'
when Allah spoke to him, Musa /Moses pbuh had this desire to see Him as well.he therefore very obediently requested Himto show him His blessed Self.

This was quite natural;Allah therefore did not condemn or snub Moses pbuh for that.Rather He kindly adviced him that a human being cannot see Him/His Z'aat with his limited physical sight,and can only visualize His qualities/sif'at.
'wala'kin unzur ilal jabal e fa inis taqarra makanahu fasaufa tarani'

This observation of looking at the mountain whilst Allah reflected Himself there was arranged for the understanding and satisfaction of Moses that if a mountain could not bear the sight of his Lord, although mountains are much strong, solid, fixed and gigantic; then how could a weak and comparatively such delicate human being could have the power to see Him.A human has a limited capacity to endeavour; his eyes can see light but when this light crosses certain limit the eye sight can be damaged.

Allah showed all this to Moses pbuh basically to treat a serious disease of mind prevailing in bani isra'el. It is repeatedly mentioned in Torah that bani israe'l repeatedly demanded Moses to show God to them. They saidthey wanted God to talk to them face to face.

Whatever of His miracles they had seen so far were not enough for them. Their heart was not settling on an unseen God. The demand 'ij'al lana A'lehan kama lahum A'leha" (make a god for us as they have theirs) was based on this desire.
In order to treat this disease of ' only seeing and believing' (what cud be the best translation of 'mahsoos parasti' ) Allah made it clear to Moses in the 1st instance that God is not an object to be seen and touched. He is only to be understood with mind and to be believed with heart. Eyes could only visualize the beauty of His sif'at/qualities. Moses conveyed this whole message to bani isra'el but their doubt remained therefore they were struck by Allah's punishment as described in Surah Baqara and also furthr in Surah A'raf.

It is evident from this incidence that ...(see nxt )

Edited by: hkhan on Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:45 AM

Posted - Thursday, April 26, 2007  -  10:50 AM Reply with quote

It is also evident from this incidence that those sufis and monks/ 'jogis'who have made the seeing /vision of God as the excellence of 'ma'rfat'/access and who have adapted this as their target or aim of life, they have crossed the limits of their access, the result of which is nothing but confusion and harassment( 'kheergi' and 'tahayyur' are the words maulana islahi sb pbuh has used) It is like a tiny bird setting out to hunt an eagle. It will be described in the commentary of Surah Najam that even the highly honoured angel Jibrae'l pbuh who is the highest and closest to Allah amongst the angels, has his limits of access. He can only receive the Light and Beauty (anw'ar o tajalliya't) from a certain distance and cannot take a single step beyond that.

(there is a persian verse quoted with that explainung this situation
agar yak sar e mo e bartar peram
faroghe tajalli ba soz o peram)

Posted - Friday, April 27, 2007  -  1:45 AM Reply with quote

.................basic manners of conversation apply wherever we go.

plz try and continue to learn in a healthy environment.............but saten the outcaste against whom we ought to be on guard 24/7
Jazakallahu Khair.

Thanks for the intervention though a bit late, (perhaps to test our patience)

Posted - Monday, April 30, 2007  -  2:50 PM Reply with quote
aboosait zara uss bacche ko bhi shaabash dey dein(plz say some good words to that child as well) at 'smile a while' forum where she has apologised to you. we must award our young minds for their tolerance and manners

Posted - Wednesday, May 2, 2007  -  10:37 AM Reply with quote
Coming back to the topic...

Following is the link, of a small paragraph from Maulana Maududi on Tasawwuf:



Posted - Wednesday, May 2, 2007  -  12:58 PM Reply with quote
What Maududi sahib has said is correct, people of tasawwuf of todays must be careful of Quran and Sunnah.But as we getting away from the Prophet(pbuh) times things can not same as they used to be those days. Scholars of today’s are not that good in knowledge and in Taqwa as they used to be earlier.As the time passing things are not becoming good but the opposite. We still get benefited by listening the scholars today.Only thing is important ,we must try to find the best people available so do in the case of tasawwuf.

My Shaikh recently said in the maglis I quote.

Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi once said to his mureeds(followers) in his khanqah that you are not here to become a sufi.Sufi is good thing but I try that you people become a good human being by coming to my khanqah here.If you people wish to become a sufi,this is not the place for it.

Posted - Thursday, May 3, 2007  -  7:58 AM Reply with quote
Becoming a good human being should be the target of every muslim,

Believing that the earliest were the best, is convenient as well as problematic. It is convenient as the earlier people are no longer living, one can praise them as much as one wants to, exaggerate their features etc. Problematic, because it lets you believe probably that there is something wrong with the current times per se, which has resulted in such 'lack of taqwa'. Such a belief, in my personal opinion, is an outcome of static standards of judging people and the current times.

Such standards for example are,

1) nobody else (other than one belonging to our own school of thought) deserves to be called a 'scholar'. If it is somehow shown that he is qualified to be a scholar, we would call him a 'misguided' scholar. Maulana Maududi is one of the victims of this.

2) All the research and publications will be primely focused towards proving the other wrong. Please have a look at the number of publications written e.g. by Darul Uloom Deoband, Jama'at e Islami, and others in this regard.

3) Allowing Tasawwuf to pre-empt the understanding of Quran and Sunnah. As it happened in case of Mr. Ahmed Raza Khan. History tells us that in their conflict with Mr. Khan, the Ulema-e-Deoband were tasting their own medicine. Using the allowances available in Tasawwuf Mr. Khan came at a completely different understanding of Quran & Sunnah, which was obviously incorrect in the
eyes of Deoband but what could they do.

All of the above resulted in a static academic environment within the traditionalists coupled with their Jews-like self righteouness that blinded them to believe that any big personality should come from within them, indicates why things are, how they are right now.

Posted - Thursday, May 3, 2007  -  10:34 AM Reply with quote
You are only blaming people without providing any evidance.This is only prove how badly you dislike them from your heart.Judging people from yours own made standards and criteria rather than Quran and Sunnah will not going to convince me any thing.

This is a free world, you follow to whom you like.

Posted - Thursday, May 3, 2007  -  12:37 PM Reply with quote
I think it is better to look into some history first to see whether what i wrote is valid or not.

Posted - Thursday, May 3, 2007  -  7:53 PM Reply with quote
Heartiest Greetings to Studying Islam.org., for starting the forum, a platform where Muslims can discuss and debate various issues and clarify misconceptions.
Also Congratulations to Brother (Sister?) Usmani790 for starting this debate. At least it had many Muslim brothers reaching for their Qura’ans and Bukharis to fire salvos at him. (I assume Its Usmani790 Bhai and not Usmani790 Behan.)
Dear Brother Usmani790 please consider this: Surah Bayyinnah Verse 5(Translation - Abullah Yusuf Ali)
And they have been commanded
No more than this:
To worship God,(Allah)
Offering Him sincere devotion.
Being true (in faith);
To establish regular prayer;
And to practice regular charity;
And that is the religion
Right and Straight
Brother Usmani790… I Understand that your ultimate aim is to go to Jannat.(Ameen). The above sura from Quraan gives you a straight and a simple formula to achieve your Aim. Please follow it. It has worked for millions before us and Inshaallah will work for millions after us.(Allah knows best!).And will work for us too!
Now for arguments sake….Suppose Brother Usmani790 is right! Wah Wah! Mashaallah! He and his supporters go to Janat!
And Those who followed 98:5 also go to Janat.
Please familiarize yourselves with the punishment for Shirk before embarking on this dangerous journey.My advice to my dear brother Usmani790 is….KEEP IT SIMPLE! And take it easy!
Why mess it all up for yourself and others who listen to you and trust you by garnishing and sprinkling your faith with Mysticism / Sufiism , Something which is controversial and does not have any precedent or place in the practice of Islam.
Brother Usmani790 I Have read your arguments and appeals and come to the conclusion that you are a very well read and a well informed person. And you could be of a great service to Islam in spreading the true faith!!! Inshaallah ..Allahtala will greatly reward you for your services..Ameen. Think about it!!
Allah Hafiz,
Rishad Rizvi

Posted - Friday, May 4, 2007  -  5:19 AM Reply with quote
sala'ms 'n welcome to the SI forums Rishad Rizvi

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