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usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, April 06, 2006  -  6:24 AM Reply with quote
Quote:-Yes, I was talking about nafl salat.
Reply:-But this must be clear in your post,don't you think? This could mislead a person.

Edited by: usmani790 on Thursday, April 06, 2006 6:26 AM
maskxone

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, April 08, 2006  -  7:20 PM Reply with quote
Assalam Alaykum,
Brother Tariq Hashmi I read Moiz Amjad's opinion on understanding Islam that if a Muslim has left prayers intentionally for some years and then repents the act. So there are 2 or 3 opinions that he can offer as many superorogatory prayers as possible as compensation or return the prayers (obligatory). He mentioned that in his opinion the first option is better.
On another website (www.islamqa.com) i read that there is no Qaza for the prayers missed intentionally as there is a fixed time period for every prayer.
Would like your comments on the above?
Best Regards
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, April 27, 2006  -  4:20 AM Reply with quote
In my view the most important soora about salat is Soora Man (107) which I have tried to interpret as under:
"SMALL KINDNESSES ( Soora-e-Maoon, 107)

Have you seen that who belies deen (as it enjoins human welfare)?

That is he who repels the orphan (i.e. indigent).

And urges not the feeding of the needy.

Ah, woe unto worshipers (That is, ‘Musalleen’ who call themselves ‘Namazi’)

Who are heedless of the real objective of the Salaat (which is the culture of human welfare)

Whose purpose is to make a show of their worship (To impress people with their religiosity)

Yet refuse (avoid) small kindness (selfless human welfare which does not inflate their ego)"

One view is that the 'Musalleen' referred to above are pre-Islamic Mushrikeen who performed all the rituals which were later adopted and reformed by Islam. Salaat is even today offered, perhaps with more regularity and 'khasooh and khashooh', by some of the sects which are considered to be non-Muslim by the mainstream. The Mullah who practices Islam, as a profession like a lawyer practices the law, has corrupted salat to be called 'namaz' the 'reading?' of which behind him is 'farz?' (compulsory) for men only (some mullah even ban entry of women in their mosque).

I would welcome comments of the Muslim brethren who are interested in saving Islam from the Mullah who is corrupting Islam to serve his vested interest.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, April 27, 2006  -  5:30 AM Reply with quote
Quote:-Salaat is even today offered, perhaps with more regularity and 'khasooh and khashooh', by some of the sects which are considered to be non-Muslim by the mainstream


Could you name those sects which are considered to be non-Muslim?and from which sect you belongs?

Thanks
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, April 29, 2006  -  12:52 AM Reply with quote
I am personally a non-sectarian sayyad but belong to a traditionally Sunni family. But excuse me why get personal?

In my view all groupings on the basis of any religion are divisions of humanity into sects. The groups which use the word 'namaz' for their prayer are Musims, Ahmadies, Shias, Zartusht, etc., etc.

In Pakistan, Ahmadies are non-Muslim according to the Islamic Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. So they are called Islamic or Constitutional non-Muslims while Shias are called 'kafirs' by a group who call themselves 'Sunni Musluims', spear-headed by a religio-political group called 'Sippahe Suhaaba', according to whom even those who do not consiber Shias as 'kafirs' are themselves kafirs.

Then there is a social sectarianism in our part of the world. Interestingly, the low-cast Hindoos who convert to Islam are called 'Musalli'. It is perhaps why the Mullah avoid the use of the Quranic term salat and use instead the pagan term 'namaz' for their prayer.

I am sorry this discussion of sectarianism would lead us nowhere but would side-track the issue under discussion.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, April 29, 2006  -  7:38 AM Reply with quote
Quote:-I am personally a non-sectarian sayyad but belong to a traditionally Sunni family. But excuse me why get personal?

Sorry for that. You talk about sects, for giving a better reply I asked you.

Quote: -Salaat is even today offered, perhaps with more regularity and 'khasooh and khashooh', by some of the sects which are considered to be non-Muslim by the mainstream

Reply: -This is very difficult to judged that who is offering his prayer with Khusooh-o-Khuzooh.This is some thing comes more from the heart and only Allah can see it. Giving their proper time to every action of prayer is also come under Khusooh-o-Khuzooh as well.If a non Muslim offering salat so it won't give any benifit to him.

This what I found very wrong that the people like me and you knows very little about the religion and we always very quick to criticize on others especially on Mullas.Let say If some one studied upto inter level or A level and if he criticize on some one’s article on physics, who is Master on that by giving his stupid logics, how fair he will be? And do the others will give any importance to his criticism?

But as far as the knowledge of deen is concerned its seems that we have took it for granted. As far as these Mullahs are concerned their knowledge of religion is far more better than us. There is no question about it. Their concept of understanding could be wrong on some issues.

The fair way will be if we have any disagreement with them (Mullahs) in any issue, we must first do our own study on that particular issue and reply them with reasons,logics and with Quran and Hadith references. This might help them to change their concept on that. At least people like me and others will listen to that and will be benefited from it.

Quote:-In my view all groupings on the basis of any religion are divisions of humanity into sects. The groups which use the word 'namaz' for their prayer are Musims, Ahmadies, Shias, Zartusht, etc., etc.

Reply: -Like in the case of Ahmadies with the consensus of Ulima and Scholars, they have been declared non-Muslim. But I feel that your view on that is otherwise, if I am not wrong. If I am rightly said above, then what are your basis on that and do you think you are more knowledgeable than those great Ulima and Scholars?


Quote:-It is perhaps why the Mullah avoid the use of the Quranic term salat and use instead the pagan term 'namaz' for their prayer.

Brother it is just the Urdu translation of Salat.Nothing wrong with that. I am sure we people use Namaz more than Mullahs.Can’t you see any thing good in those Mullahs.One thing good I can see instantaneously that they don’t talk bed about people like us as we always talk bad about them.

There is link of Tafheem-ul-Quran by Molana Maudoodi Sahib of Suea Al-Maun.
Please forgive me if I heart you in my reply.

http://www.tafheemulquran.org/Tafhim_u/107/surah_all.htm

Allah Hafiz

Edited by: usmani790 on Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:47 AM
oosman

USA
Posted - Saturday, April 29, 2006  -  3:02 PM Reply with quote
quote:

As far as these Mullahs are concerned their knowledge of religion is far more better than us.


I do not think a person can be removed from the knowledge of the world; eg social sciences, political science, philosophy, literature and modern arts; and concentrate on knowledge of deen only and become a mufti then start giving out fatwas. A person who is so alienated from the reality of the world, one who is confined to his sphere of religious idealism and removed from practicality and the society - how can such a person pass judgements and religious edicts for the society? Agreed some mullahs are not like that, but many are - they live in a world where they believe everything will be ok if we go back to the mideaval times. If you see the lifes of some past scholars, they were uptodate with modern sciences and what was happening in the world. Most of our mullahs are poor uneducated (in the worldly knowledge), and yet they are passing judgements on worldly matters. Deen and Duniya cannot be separated, the true trial of this life is to apply the deen in duniya.

Some of these mullahs even say that knowledge is only that of deen, all other knowledge is useless. They make such ignorant statements, wallahi!

And brother there is nothing wrong with criticising others, it is not backbiting because we are not talking about certain individuals but a class of people. And our aim is not to mock them, but to find faults in our society so we can correct each other and get closer to Allah.
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, May 01, 2006  -  12:28 AM Reply with quote
Thank you Mr. Usmani for your comments which I value very much and would try to reply ad-seriatim as hereunder: -

1. Excuse me if you think in sectarian terms then it is useless to argue with you as a sectarian mind is a closed one not open to any conviction.
2. I had not made any statement in categorical terms but had qualified it with the word ‘perhaps’. I agree with you that it is only God who knows about our heart.
3. In objecting to my criticism of the Mullah, excuse me, you have become presumptuously judgmental like the very Mullah. Are you not a practicing Mullah yourself or you worship them as a deity above criticism as according to the Qurane Hakeem the Jews treated their Mullah (Ehbaar in Koranic terms)? Do you think we should stop thinking altogether when Quran is the book which questions you again and again, “why don’t you think?” and adds, “Those who don’t think are worse than animals”. In fact at one stage the Quran even says, “O Prophet! Tell them leave everything aside and come to think individually and collectively (A random quotation?)”. So thinking for the humans, according to the Quran, is the real ‘Ibadat’, be he an Ummi or an Ahle-Kitab, i.e., a layman or a Mullah.
4. As I had said at (2) above , The judge of ones faith is only God, the all-knower and any body who claims to be so is committing ‘Shirk’. In this regard it would be pertinent to quote the Quran, “ The Arabs say: We believe. Say, you believe not, but rather say “We submit,” for the faith has not yet entered into your hearts (49/14). Allah-o-Akbar (Only God is great)! It means we do not ourselves even know about our hearts.
5. The word ‘Salat’ is used at a number of places in the Quran with the meaning of ‘Dua’, which it really is, and why not call it as such. Again, when you use Zakat, Hajj, etc., Quranic terms as such why adopt a pagan term for prayer in case of Salat, which we do use in Urdu, but for some other meanings. In my view it is a serious corruption of the word ‘Salat’ to give it a pagan name especially when the Mullah himself objects to the use of other non-Islamic terms like ‘Khuda’ in place of Arabic term ‘Allah’ and use of Islamic terms by ‘non-Muslims’ like Ahmadies. Here I may clarify that I use the term Mullah for all the religiously bigoted persons, professional or non-professional.
6. You have mentioned the name of Moulana Moudoodi Mrhoom and his Tafheem. I had a great respect for that man and as I lived near his home in Ichhra for a long time I had the good fortune of praying with him in Jamia Ashrafia and even once in Mansoora when I stood beside him. I read his Tafheem also. But for your information he was also not considered an ‘Ullama’ according to the so called ‘Jayyad Ullema’.
7. At the end I will quote a Hadees, “A person who calls himself a Momin is a Kafir and the one who says “I am an Aalim’ he is Jaahil”. (Abudawud and Tirmazi, as narrated by Hazrat Ali, from Ehyaul Aloom by Ghazali, Vol. I, page218). Doesn’t this Hadees clinch the matter under discussion between us.



With regards
Syed Talawat Bokhari
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, May 08, 2006  -  11:59 AM Reply with quote
Dear Oosman

I appriciate your insightfull thoughts.If they(Mullah) are lacking in the wordly knowledge,we can not blame to them.This is the problem of some socities.The economic condition of most of them normally does not allow them to study in schools and colleges.This is the basic reason of the things you have mentioned in these Mullahs.

On the other hand Muslims who have the acess to worldly knowledge, so after getting that their prioty become this world only.Knowing the basic demands of the religion,they don't follow them.These people are found in majority in almost every Muslim socity.Not all are like that but most of them are.

I don't know to whom to blame more.
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, May 15, 2006  -  2:00 AM Reply with quote
Dear Usman
I was waiting for your comments but have seen none so far. Today I read Tafheem about interpretation of Soora Maoon. Sorry to say it makes the confusion worse confounded. In fact, as I had said earlier I respected Moulana Moudoodi for his integrity of character but that does not mean that I follow him blindly. I do not consider him a 'mufakkir' as he thought and used his 'aqli istidal' circumscribed by a parameter of his fixed 'Aqeeda'.
His cofused interpretation of the Soora bears ample proof to it. It would perhaps be waste of time to discuss it.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, May 15, 2006  -  10:53 AM Reply with quote
Dear Tilawat

Quote:-I was waiting for your comments but have seen none so far. Today I read Tafheem about interpretation of Soora Maoon. Sorry to say it makes the confusion worse confounded. In fact, as I had said earlier I respected Moulana Moudoodi for his integrity of character but that does not mean that I follow him blindly. I do not consider him a 'mufakkir' as he thought and used his 'aqli istidal' circumscribed by a parameter of his fixed 'Aqeeda'.

His cofused interpretation of the Soora bears ample proof to it. It would perhaps be waste of time to discuss it.

Quote:- You have mentioned the name of Moulana Moudoodi Mrhoom and his Tafheem. I had a great respect for that man and as I lived near his home in Ichhra for a long time I had the good fortune of praying with him in Jamia Ashrafia and even once in Mansoora when I stood beside him. I read his Tafheem also. But for your information he was also not considered an ‘Ullama’ according to the so called ‘Jayyad Ullema’

Reply: -Looking at yours first quote it seams yours self also not considering Molana Maudoodi as ”Ullama” as you said Jayyad Ullema not considered him.

You said about Molana Maudoodi

Quote:- I do not consider him a 'mufakkir' as he thought and used his 'aqil istidal' circumscribed by a parameter of his fixed 'Aqeeda'.

Reply: - I think these comments of yours to me more fit to your own self rather than Molana Maudoodi Sahib.He was a great scholar of Islam not in only my eyes but in the eyes of all the Muslims of world who ever knows him.

Who ever will go against yours prefixed understanding of Islam, you would not liked him. These Mullahs are easy targets only.

Quote: - Excuse me if you think in sectarian terms then it is useless to argue with you as a sectarian mind is a closed one not open to any conviction.

Reply: - What about your self, are you mind is open? I recommend you the Tafseer of Molana Maudoodi thinking that these Jayyed ulamas tafsser you might not accept and for you (Molana Maudoodi) as you said you have great respect? All the respect gone when his tafseer goes against yours prefixed understanding of Islam.

Brother you don’t like Jayyaed Ulema, Mollahs, now even Molana Maudoodi.I told already any one disliking have no valve, until he is not providing any material with his disagreement with others. You are only using your Aqil.Go back and check the tafseer of Sura- Maun once again, Molana Maudoodi Sahib have provided so many references of Prophet (pbuh) Many sahaba like Ibne-Abbas (RA) Ali (RA) and others in his tafseer of Sura-e- Maun.He did not used his Aqal as you doing.The facts are other way wrong brother.

You Said: - His confused interpretation of the Soora bears ample proof to it. It would perhaps be waste of time to discuss it.

Now you can see that not only Molana Maudoodi confused you but also…I am afraid to write so Big names here.

Brother we are human; surly we can do mistakes. I could also be wrong in my opinions.If we are sincere in learning so one has give due respect to them. My intention is here to bring your mistake (as I felt) and made you realized.Others will not lost any thing also I pray to Allah for guidance. He also guides us with help of another brother. What I felt I have conveyed to you. You are well come to guide me so this is the way forward.
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, May 18, 2006  -  2:06 AM Reply with quote
Dear Usmani
"Superior could be only those men who offer salat,One who did not offer salat how could be he superior?"
All praise be to Allah! What a criterion you laid down for superiority, dear Usmani? Satan, the truthful, had his own criterion of superiority over the Adam made from earth. He had refused to bow before Adam while all the other angels had prostrated before him. The angels could not 'think' like you or they would have also claimed superiority over Adam on the basis of salat and refused to accept the superiority of Adam who had done nothing by then but was just a human being created out of earth. The Satan was declared 'mardood' only because he did not accept the superiority of the human as such over the angels. And what do you think about pagans or non-Muslims 'offering' salat, which is basically a prayer, seeking something from Allah by accepting His superiority over all creation and of none else; even of a 'namaazi' or a 'Musalli'.
Rakhtal

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, May 18, 2006  -  4:15 PM Reply with quote
Salam-o-alaikom

Q. Let say If some one studied upto inter level or A level and if he criticize on some one’s article on physics, who is Master on that by giving his stupid logics, how fair he will be? And do the others will give any importance to his criticism?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Excellent!!!
*****************

Q. Most of our mullahs are poor uneducated (in the worldly knowledge), and yet they are passing judgments on worldly matters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it absolutely necessary to be educated to run the worldly matters?
What were the educations of the kings/emperors and even the Islamic scholars of the past whom almost all the non-mullahs follow?
*****************

Q. Here I may clarify that I use the term Mullah for all the religiously bigoted persons, professional or non-professional.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Why is your definition of Mullah one sided only while you are using “ALL the religiously bigoted persons”IE if they (so called Mullahs) tell something, are you ready to hear them and act upon. If people like you remain big bigoted here why must not they be awarded the superlative degree of a Mullah?
*****************
Rakhtal

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, May 19, 2006  -  5:11 PM Reply with quote
Salam-o-alaikom

Q> I told already any one disliking have no valve, until he is not providing any material with his disagreement with others. You are only using your Aqil.Go back and check the tafseer of Sura- Maun once again, Molana Maudoodi Sahib have provided so many references of Prophet (pbuh) Many sahaba like Ibne-Abbas (RA) Ali (RA) and others in his tafseer of Sura-e- Maun.He did not used his Aqal as you doing.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Usmani, You are correct!!!

Satan also used ones own Aqal and was rejected by the Lord till the day of judgement.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, May 20, 2006  -  5:38 AM Reply with quote
Quote:-And what do you think about pagans or non-Muslims 'offering' salat, which is basically a prayer, seeking something from Allah by accepting His superiority over all creation and of none else; even of a 'namaazi' or a 'Musalli'

Reply:-Satan never refused to bowdown to Allah.He disobey Allah camand and he had refused to bow before Adam.

If a non Muslim offering salat and not accepting the religion of Islam,he is also refusing the camand of Allah as Satan did.Have a look on the following verse.

If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #85)
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, May 20, 2006  -  6:28 AM Reply with quote
Dear Brother Rakhtal

Quote:-Satan also used ones own Aqal and was rejected by the Lord till the day of judgement.

Reply:-Actually if you will study in depth, you will find that this Satan used to worship a lot to Allah.But Allah knows that there is a sickness in his heart(Satan).By the cammand of (to bow before Adam) Allah had open his sickness of heart only.

Now with this open cammand to every human being in verse of Quran,Allah is opening the sickness of every human being who is refusing to accept Islam.All the good deeds done by these non Muslim in this world,may be benefited to them in this world,but not in the Hereafter.

And Allah Knows the Best.

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