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perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, February 24, 2005  -  9:38 PM Reply with quote
Salat-an individual trying to establish spiritual contact with God. Unfortunately like so many other wonderful things in Islam we have reduced it to ritual that must be performed or else. Prayer should be awakening of your soul.
No wonder the muslim world is in such amess, for we have reduced Islam to a spectator sport where X points for such an action & minus Y pts for another.
Try salat just to discover Allah and forget about the rewards and punishment, who knows you might just discover what being a Muslim really means.
Salam
Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, February 25, 2005  -  4:49 AM Reply with quote
"IS importance of every thing is determined by punishment? "

That is exactly my point. People try to scare others with punishment if they do not pray. I do not agree with this approach to encourage salat. My point was there is no evidence that not doing salat will definitely lead to punishment, and therefore we should not use this tactic to establish salat.


salams
Please read my complete response.
thanks

Edited by: tariq hashmi on Friday, February 25, 2005 5:47 AM
oosman

USA
Posted - Saturday, February 26, 2005  -  5:41 AM Reply with quote
assalam alaikum tariq.

I read your post again. My question is very simple which your post did not answer.

Will someone definitely go to hell just because he/she never did salat?

yes or no?

I think the correct answer is that we do not know the answer, God will be the judge of that.
Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 26, 2005  -  7:21 AM Reply with quote
What about the verse quoted.
oosman

USA
Posted - Sunday, February 27, 2005  -  3:27 AM Reply with quote
Assalam alaikum,

It is a very nice verse that you have mentioned. Lets discuss it more.
Here is a literal translation:

فَخَلَفَ مِنْ بَعْدِهِمْ خَلْفٌ
Then offspring succeeded (from after) them,
اَضَاعُوْا الصَّلَوةَ
they wasted the salat
وَاتَّبَعُوْا الشَّهَوَتِ
and they obeyed the lusts
فَسَوْفَ يَلْقَوْنَ غَيًّا
then they will meet a delusion

The previous verse mentions people whom Allah graced from prophets and their children. This verse states that from those good people, there will come their offspring who will waste their salat and they will obey their desires, and they will be deceived in the end.

The nations and peoples who establish the salat, the salat helps prevent them from their lusts and evil desires. Those who leave the salat can fall into this trap easily. Salat makes us God conscious. Leaving salat, we are less or not God conscious at all, hence we may end up doing bad things and going to hell.

It does not say they were punished for not doing salat. They were punished because of the lusts and evil they followed, which they would not have followed had they not abandoned salat.

I am not suggesting we not do salat. We should definitely do it because of all the good things it brings us, including taqwa. But to say that you will be punished for not doing salat is not very accurate. You will be punished for the bad things you will end up doing if you give up salat.

Allah may forgive whoever He wills and punish whoever He wills. And Allah knows best.
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, March 03, 2005  -  1:32 AM Reply with quote
Assalamo Alaikum,

Thank you brother Ibrahim.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, March 04, 2005  -  11:17 AM Reply with quote
To Mr.oosman USA

God him self scare us with punishment to muslims and nos muslims in the Quran.He is our creater he know how will most of us can come to the right path.He scare us with hell and also show us heaven if we are on the right track.

God says in Quran Oh Muslim compiletly inter into the Islam.The namaz, zakat, fasting,zakat ,these are the basic things.To know how can we completly can inter in Islam is required lot more knowledge of deen courge to follow it.

Its open for every one, its only that how we set our prioties and goals.
I came accross resently a Hadia of our profhet (pbuh) having two times meal is a luggery.If one will read the life of prophet(pbuh) and his campanion he will surely come accross lot of things like one i mentioned above.

Sohail Usmani
oosman

USA
Posted - Friday, March 04, 2005  -  3:20 PM Reply with quote
Thank you Sohail. I do agree with you that God scares us with Hell and punishment. As far as salat is concerned, I do not see anywhere in the Quran that God will punish you for not doing salat. I have already shown that in the translation of the verse Mr Tariq presented.

Salat is important and should be done. It purifies us and protects us from bad things. Those bad things can lead us to hell and punishment. If we do not do salat, then we will inevitably start doing bad things because we will be less God concious. So not doing salat will indirectly cause us to be punished. But where does it say that there is a punishment for not doing salat?
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, March 05, 2005  -  9:46 AM Reply with quote
To Mr. Osman USA

If u can't find in quran so u refer to Hadia.

Salat is the main difference Between blievers and non blievers.These days non blivers in a daily life practice they are better than Muslims.They are good humen beings than a muslim.

One even can't find in the quran the quantity of each pherz salat which we perform five times a day.So any thing if we can't find in Quran we have to refer Hahia.

Sohail Usmani
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, March 06, 2005  -  9:48 PM Reply with quote
QUOTE: But where does it say that there is a punishment for not doing salat?.. (Oosman)

We all know that God emphasises on Salat many more times than the others orders and the first question in Grave is about Salat. Every order by God is compulsory and so everyone is answerable to God. So every answerable matter is rewarding or punishable otherwise the purpose of answerability can’t be explained? Is leaving the order on which God is emphasising repeatedly is not a sin. Are some sins punishable and some not like Salat as you said?

You said, “ Where does it say that there is a punishment for not doing salat”. God does not always spoon feeds us but says the words like Taalamoon, Taaqeloon and Tatafakkaroon etc, which mean, “So that you know, have a sense and think etc respectively” OR “Can’t you know, have a sense and think etc respectively by prefixing some word like Afalaa”

So leaving salat is a sin, answerable and obviously punishable. If we do not accept, it never means that we have convinced God to our understanding.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, March 09, 2005  -  9:33 AM Reply with quote
Mr. oosman usa

Here is what u were looking for,

(What led you into the Hell-fire?" They will say: "We were not of those who prayed.)(Qur’an 74:43).


Hope this will help u.
Sohail Usmani
oosman

USA
Posted - Thursday, March 10, 2005  -  2:52 PM Reply with quote
This verse is about those people who denied the judgement day. Read on:

What has caused you to enter Hell?"
They will say: "We were not of those who used to offer their Salât (prayers)
Nor we used to feed Al-Miskin (the poor);
And we used to talk falsehood (all that which Allâh hated) with vain talkers
And we used to talk falsehood (all that which Allâh hated) with vain talkers
Until there came to us (the death) that is certain
74.42-47
oosman

USA
Posted - Thursday, March 10, 2005  -  3:16 PM Reply with quote
This verse is about those people who denied the judgement day. Read on:

What has caused you to enter Hell?"
They will say: "We were not of those who used to offer their Salât (prayers)
Nor we used to feed Al-Miskin (the poor);
And we used to talk falsehood (all that which Allâh hated) with vain talkers
"And we used to belie the Day of Recompense
Until there came to us (the death) that is certain
74.42-47


I am talking about those Muslims who believe in Allah and Judgement Day and may not pray very punctually. Will these people be punished for not doing all their salat?

I do my salat because I love my deen and sunnah. I never thought about whether I will be punished for not doing salat, that was never my motivation. One day a non-Muslim friend asked me what happens if I do not do my salat, will I be punished for that. That is why I asked this question here.
oosman

USA
Posted - Thursday, March 10, 2005  -  3:17 PM Reply with quote
This verse is about those people who denied the judgement day. Read on:

What has caused you to enter Hell?"
They will say: "We were not of those who used to offer their Salât (prayers)
Nor we used to feed Al-Miskin (the poor);
And we used to talk falsehood (all that which Allâh hated) with vain talkers
"And we used to belie the Day of Recompense
Until there came to us (the death) that is certain
74.42-47


I am talking about those Muslims who believe in Allah and Judgement Day and may not pray very punctually. Will these people be punished for not doing all their salat?

I do my salat because I love my deen and sunnah. I never thought about whether I will be punished for not doing salat, that was never my motivation. One day a non-Muslim friend asked me what happens if I do not do my salat, will I be punished for that. That is why I asked this question here.
oosman

USA
Posted - Friday, March 24, 2006  -  4:32 PM Reply with quote
you also said: "but abandoning it delibrately guarantees your going to hell"

That is a very strong statement. There are many people who do not do salat (by that I mean the physical 5 time daily namaz). But they are believers in Allah and the Last Day. And in Quran Allah mentions anyone who believes in Him and last day will have no grievance on that day.

It is a compmon belief that if you do not pray, you will go to hell. We should not generalize like this as each case is unique and Allah will judge each of us uniquely. May be He will admit some people who did not do salat into Heaven, who knows. We do not have authority to pass verdict on others that they are going to hell because they don't do namaz. That is the fundamentalist mentality.
Nauman

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, March 25, 2006  -  4:09 PM Reply with quote
As-Salaamu Alaikum.

I do agree with Osman but there is another issue.

Quote: But if they repent & perform "As-Salat" (Iqamat-as-Salat), & give Zakat, then leave there way free. (9:5)

The above verse is used to allow state to punish or force the individual to offer Salah. I never understood it fully.

Can the state legislate a punishment in this regard? Will the representative goes to every house at five times a day to ask whether the person in offering prayer in house if he has not shown up in mosque? Will the person be forced to offer Salah in the mosque and unsatisfied valid excuse will bring him the punishment?

How all this will be managed? We all know that salah is a very personal affair.

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