| Author | Topic |
shehzads
PAKISTAN
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 Posted - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - 9:30 AM 
| As far as I have read about Islam, I don't feel thare is a need for Sufism to add anything to it, but our Muslim brothers and sisters who feel that only reading about Islam is not helping them to manage their emotions like anger, fear and others, perhaps they may benefit from a little bit of Sufism. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - 4:09 PM
quote:
........ Islam is not helping them to manage their emotions like anger, fear and others, perhaps they may benefit from a little bit of Sufism.
On the contrary not only they but you too are denying the Truth if you think that Islam is not sufficient.
Edited by: aboosait on Saturday, April 10, 2010 4:10 PM |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, April 12, 2010 - 5:57 AM
Dear aboosait,
Sorry for jumping in so late in the thread....
Just wanted to check one thing, "Islam is not sufficient"..... May I know who said that... Among all the Great Sufis?
In my opinion, Sufism DOES NOT add anything to Islam, rather they just HELP in achieving some Pre-defined goals of Islam.
Its just like helping a small baby to walk by holding his hand... and everyone do that?
We all HELP our younger ones even sometime older ones to understand or practice true Islam.
Edited by: atifrafi on Monday, April 12, 2010 5:58 AM |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, April 12, 2010 - 4:35 PM
quote:
..........In my opinion, Sufism DOES NOT add anything to Islam, rather they just HELP in achieving some Pre-defined goals of Islam.
Its just like helping a small baby to walk by holding his hand... and everyone do that? ..........
Astagfirullah. Are you sarcastic or serious?
Islam, a small baby? Sufis helping Islam to move ahead?
And what are those pre-defined goals you are talking of? |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - 6:11 AM
Dear aboosait,
Sorry for the confusion. I did not said that ANYONE helps ISLAM, rather my point was its just like elders helps their younger ones to understand something, the same way Sufis HELPS PEOPLE LIKE US to better understand Islam. Just like any Maulana aur Madrassa. Its just that Way of Teaching is bit different from Our Traditional Scholors. They encourage Practical Rather than Simple Lectures.
I hope this time I am able to clarify. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - 1:39 PM
quote:
......... Sufis HELPS PEOPLE LIKE US to better understand Islam. Just like any Maulana aur Madrassa...
Do you send your children to the Biology professor to learn Algebra?
Sufis HELPS PEOPLE LIKE US to better understand Sufism - and go to a Muslim scholar well versed in (and practising) Qur'an and Sunnah to understand Islam.. |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 5:58 AM
quote:
Do you send your children to the Biology professor to learn Algebra?
You mean to say that SUFIS teaches something other than Islam... Am i right?
quote:
Sufis HELPS PEOPLE LIKE US to better understand Sufism - and go to a Muslim scholar well versed in (and practising) Qur'an and Sunnah to understand Islam..
Fromo your statement what I understand is ISLAM and SUFISM are TWO DIFFERENT religions... I think this is a very STRONG statement and needs very SOLID proofs... Can you please share your reasons one by one why you thinks so.
This is only to educate me, I just want to know the DIFFERENCES between ISLAM and SUFISM... If these are 2 DIFFERENT Religions.
Also, All the well versed Scholars only TEACHES you... by mere lectures only while SUFIS gives practical implementation, like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, "Pre Defined Goals"
1. Modesty
2. Humbleness
3. Respect for Humanity
4. Love for Humanity.....
Not to mention: Prayers, Fasts ...
Edited by: atifrafi on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 6:01 AM |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 9:06 AM
quote:
........Fromo your statement what I understand is ISLAM and SUFISM are TWO DIFFERENT religions...
Both the terms Sufi and Sufism and Sufi beliefs have no basis from the traditional Islamic sources of the Qur’an and Sunnah, Rather, Sufism is in essence a conglomerate consisting of extracts from a multitude of other religions with which Sufis interacted.
Sufism is so similar to other religions, and very tolerant of them, that a change to Sufism does not involve a complete change of life, as Islam requires.
So Buddhists, Sikhs, Taoists and mystic Jews and Christians looking for an easy alternative find solace in Sufism. |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 9:47 AM
quote:
Both the terms Sufi and Sufism and Sufi beliefs have no basis from the traditional Islamic sources of the Qur’an and Sunnah
Just because these are New Terms doesn't prove that there is something NEW RELIGION....
We use many new terms now a days like Maulana, Allama. I never heard of any Maulana among the Sahabas. Do you?
quote:
Rather, Sufism is in essence a conglomerate consisting of extracts from a multitude of other religions with which Sufis interacted.
Kindly give any example of any such belief.
quote:
Sufism is so similar to other religions, and very tolerant of them
Well, ISLAM wants us to be TOLERATE to other religions... Nothing new for me
We need to clarify the point that Sufism is something different than Islam. I can agree to this perception if you can give me some example like Sufis believe in a new revelation or messenger from ALLAH.
If there is a difference of opinion on some points that doesn't make a NEW Religion. We have hundreds of differences between all sects... Does that means there are Number of Religions??? |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, April 16, 2010 - 11:30 AM
quote:
Well, ISLAM wants us to be TOLERATE to other religions... Nothing new for me..........
Concept of validity of all religions:
The Sufi doctrine of all religions being acceptable before Allah is derived from the Mystical beliefs of other religions, and not Islam, for Allah says: quote:
"Truly, the religion in the Sight of Allah is Islam..." [3: 19].
Take for example the Buddhists: quote:
"No Buddhist who understands the Buddha's teaching thinks that other religions are wrong... All religions acknowledge that man's present state is unsatisfactory. All teach an ethics that includes love, kindness, patience, generosity and social responsibility and all accept the existence of some form of Absolute."
The Sufis also believe the same: quote:
"Allah does not distinguish between the non-believer and the Faasiq (wrong doer) or between a believer and a Muslim. In fact they are all equal to Him... Allah does not distinguish between a Kaffir or a hypocrite or between a saint and a Prophet." The Naqshbandi Way, pp 12,16
In al-Fusoos, Ibn Arabi leaves no doubt as to his conviction in the unity of all religions: quote:
"Beware of restricting yourself to one particular religion and disbelieving in everything else, so that great good would be missed by you, indeed you would miss attainment of knowledge of the affair in the form he is following. Rather be ready to accept all forms of belief. This is because Allah is higher and greater than to be comprehended by one belief to the exclusion of others. Rather all are correct, and everyone who is correct receives award, and everyone who is rewarded is fortunate, and everyone who is fortunate is one with Whom He is pleased."Ibn Arabi, al-Fusoos, p.191
Edited by: aboosait on Friday, April 16, 2010 5:36 PM |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, April 16, 2010 - 11:48 AM
quote:
quote:
Both the terms Sufi and Sufism and Sufi beliefs have no basis from the traditional Islamic sources of the Qur’an and Sunnah
We use many new terms now a days like Maulana, Allama. I never heard of any Maulana among the Sahabas. Do you?
I mentioned three terms,
1. Sufi
2. Sufism
3. Sufi beliefs
But Atif, the example you have stated to disprove my point does not make sense here because,
1. Moulana does not have a Maulanaism or a Maulana belief.
2. Allama does not have an Allamaism or an Allama belief |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, April 16, 2010 - 12:04 PM
Brother Aboosait,
Thanks for the clarification. To be honest, I do agree with you (not 100%) on the topic you have quoted.
Please clarify following:
quote:
Allah does not distinguish between the non-believer and the Faasiq
I am unable to understand whats the issue in this statement... please elaborate.
Secondly, I seriously believe that quoting few lines NEVER explain the complete picture. Kindly refer some site where I can read these in detail. (Obviously if you know some)
I hope with your help, I can learn better. |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, April 16, 2010 - 12:08 PM
quote:
But Atif, the example you have stated to disprove my point does not make sense here
Ok, I again agree with you... but what about Sunni , Wahabi, shia and so on....
Also, It would be better if we discuss these points one by one as I believe by doing so we can discuss/understand in a better way. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, April 16, 2010 - 5:43 PM
quote:
quote:
Allah does not distinguish between the non-believer and the Faasiq
I am unable to understand whats the issue in this statement... please elaborate.
I repeat the remaining portion of the quote which will answer your question.
quote:
......In fact they are all equal to Him... Allah does not distinguish between a Kaffir or a hypocrite or between a saint and a Prophet." The Naqshbandi Way, pp 12,16
Their belief is based on Such falsehood.
Now see what Allah says about hypocrites:
An-Nisa (The Women)
quote:
فَمَا لَكُمْ فِي الْمُنَافِقِينَ فِئَتَيْنِ وَاللّهُ أَرْكَسَهُم بِمَا كَسَبُواْ أَتُرِيدُونَ أَن تَهْدُواْ مَنْ أَضَلَّ اللّهُ وَمَن يُضْلِلِ اللّهُ فَلَن تَجِدَ لَهُ سَبِيلاً (4:88)
4:88 (Asad) How, then, could you be of two minds about the hypocrites, seeing that God [Himself] has disowned them because of their guilt? Do you, perchance, seek to guide those whom God has let go astray - when for him whom God lets go astray thou canst never find any way?
Edited by: aboosait on Friday, April 16, 2010 5:53 PM |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 3:59 AM
atifrafi===>salam....u compelled me to jump in again in this forum.....although I thought nobody was understanding my question in this forum, so i did quit.....
NOW U RAISED AGAIN the same question....
"is sufism a separate religion"...
Mr Ghamdi's school of thought strongly beleives that "it is a separate religion".....
and in this way they are putting millions of past and present muslims' identity in jeopardy......
i believe as all writers wrote in this forum...that sufism is NOT necessary to be a good muslim, or even in islam in any form.....
but I also believe as u said:::
quote:
Its just like helping a small baby to walk by holding his hand... and everyone do that? (like kindergarden)
We all HELP our younger ones even sometime older ones to understand or practice true Islam.
but I do not agree that:
quote:
.... Sufism DOES NOT add anything to Islam, rather they just HELP in achieving some Pre-defined goals of Islam.
infact some of prominent sufis actually added new things in islam , which is wrong...
but again it does not mean that they are out of ISLAM religion....as Mr Ghamdi believes.... |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 5:54 AM
Dear Aboosait,
I am afraid I am still unable to understand your statement. My confusion is there is NO difference between a non-believer and Faasiq....
I have many things to say but just for the sake of argument I agree with you that this SUFI belief is not RIGHT.... But, my question is again same... Does that make a NEW Religion?
Why can't we say that they are mistaken??? There are hundreds of differences between the most eminent scholors ( The Four Imams )... Does that conclude in the fact the either one of them Created a NEW RELIGION???
The differences were also present even in the Sahabas... Just for an example Hazrat Abdullah (rt) claimed that Last Two Surahs ( surah Falaq and Surah Naas ) are not the Part of QURAN.
I just want to explain one point... if there is any difference due to the MIS-UNDERSTANDING of any verse or Hadith, We SHOULD not and WE CANNOT say anyone Non-Muslim or a NEW RELIGION as we don't have any such Authority
safimera ===> waslaam. Thanks for your input. In fact I also tried my level best of staying out of this topic but couldn't :)
I think that i am one of the BIGGEST Fan of Mr. Ghamidi... I have fought with several persons and close friends of mine advocating Ghamidi Sb, BUT here I too agree with you.
Intrestingly, I have learned this too from Ghamidi Sb that I have the right to disagree with any Human Being :)
If Ghamidi Sb has ever said that Sufism is a new religion, I cannot agree with him ( even if I am still a big fan of him )
I NEVER claimed that its NECESSARY to follow SUFISM.... but at the same time its not a NEW RELIGION.... There might be some differences with others BUT these differences does exist in all MUSLIMS....
Edited by: atifrafi on Saturday, April 17, 2010 5:57 AM |
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