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Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, February 05, 2007  -  7:44 AM Reply with quote
QUOTE of Aboosait: - Concentrate in your studies!

It is OK, but how can a student of medicine concentrate in his/her studies without not only looking but also touching various naked parts of the opposite sexes?
Nida_e_Khair

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, February 05, 2007  -  1:23 PM Reply with quote
Can't you just go without touching the organs?!!
waseem

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, February 05, 2007  -  10:09 PM Reply with quote
Salam all

I am quoting my own views and experiences on the above subject. I studied in co-education in PK and qualified as a doctor in PK also from a co-education medical college.

islam is religion of intention. We studied biology and then later on in medical school, more extensive study. However I do not remember getting embarrased or feeling ashamed about what I was learning. There is a difference between reading Gray's anatomy and a dodgy magazine. The purpose and intention is different.

If you are planning and studying to be a doctor, you have to learn everything and cannot pick and choose.

Whilst you are a doctor and working as a doctor, when examining patients, it is a mechanical process, you are dealing with a problem, someone has come to you for help, it is my responsibility to help.At that point and time, I am a doctor and she is a patient and my questions, examination and explanation are all geered towards one thing, to help the patient. for that period of time the gender is not the question.

Perhaps working in UK may have influenced me to be like this way. If a female patient comes to see me and requires a detailed examination, I always suggest if she would prefer to see a lady doctor, that option is always given. When you undertake a responsibility and that too like being a doctor , you cannot pick and choose the topics and subjects you like. You come across many aspects in the field of medicine that a normal person will perhaps never contemplate doing.

My advice is that I have never felt that my work compromises my religion. I base it on intention. You touch a stranger female but with what intention?

If someone feels that they are uncomfortable or embarrased , then most respectfully, you will always have other options of subjects. There is an old saying if you cannot stand the heat do not stand by the fire.
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, February 06, 2007  -  1:50 AM Reply with quote
QUOTE: - Can't you just go without touching the organs?!!

Nida, nobody is eager to look or palpate the parts but the clinical information can’t be abandoned at all, if anyone is sincere to the patient. You can ask this question to any student of medicine. Remember, “None of them will favour you at all”. Without looking and palpating, NO examiner in the world, even the Muslims, will ever pass the candidate in the examination.

If you still can’t understand then ask Almighty Allah not to give you at all any chance of studying the subjects of medicine.
Nida_e_Khair

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, February 06, 2007  -  6:58 AM Reply with quote
Quote:
...ask Almighty Allah not to give you at all any chance of studying the subjects of medicine.

Aameen!
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Tuesday, February 06, 2007  -  7:43 AM Reply with quote
quote:

I think "Lower your gaze...", in Soorah Noor, says it all!
How can you touch the genitals when you're not allowed to look at them?


r u sure?
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Tuesday, February 06, 2007  -  8:21 AM Reply with quote
Nida,
plz help me to understand your conclusion drawn after reading the below:

024.030
YUSUFALI: Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty
024.031
YUSUFALI: And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty;

On the authority of Abu Sa'eed, the Prophet said, "A man should not look at the Awrah of another man, and the woman should not look at the Awrah of another woman…" (Muslim).

Means, believers should "lower their gaze" in order "to gurad their modesty"
so action( lower the gaze)and purpose ( gurad the modesty) of that action is also mentioned in one single verse.
The opposite of this is also true,if you see ,you may not guard your modesty.

Now apply this to the doctors and check if the puprpose of this command anywhere related to them.

I eager to know from you as how can it be allowed for a man to see other(men)private parts and same for women.
waseem

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, February 06, 2007  -  12:30 PM Reply with quote
salam brother Raushan

So what should men who have problems like prostate do? what should women do if they have gynae problems and they are in a place where there are no female women. Whta if they ahve to deliver. I did a locum in Newfoundland Canada, where I was the only GP for 300Kilometers. I had to deliver a baby when a women came in sudden labour.

Another scenario. I am working in UK. an Englishman comes an asks me can I drink alcohol with the tablets you have prescribed . If I am saying yes, I am not going against my religion, and propagating alcohol consumption.I am answering his query as applicable to him according to the laws of the land.
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Tuesday, February 06, 2007  -  12:51 PM Reply with quote
wait !!!!!!!waseem,
I m waiting for Nida's response..
sometimes a reverse order of dialogue works better.
hope you read it.
waseem

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, February 06, 2007  -  3:56 PM Reply with quote
I am sorry bro. I apologise for having jumped in inappropriately
Nida_e_Khair

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007  -  10:15 AM Reply with quote
Ahaaa! (pretty clever) So, Brother Raushan, you mean that if the doctors can guard their modesty without lowering their gazes, then it's ok---that's what you mean, right?
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007  -  12:53 PM Reply with quote
what I "mean"is very simple.
If a person is ill ,he/she should go to doctor.There is nothing wrong in it.
The person wants to get"cured"and the doctor use his "method"of treatment for the given disease.


Fasting is obligatory and no one is allowed to break it.
But if he /she is suffering from a disease which may cause harm to his/her life.He/she is allowed not to fast.
someone may rigid enough that she/he will not break the fast even if death comes to her/him/
The same is true for any obligation or commands for a muslim.

I ll not tell you the religion is easy and concession(hadya)is from Allah ,you know it better than me.

If someone wants to be rigid ,its his /her own choice.

Muslims need thousands of lady doctors and nurses everywhere to serve the cause,to save women dying during delivery,children due to malnutrition and you are saying "ameen"on not to choose medical profession.
that pained me.

This is all I wanted to tell you,nothing else.You have every right to follow as per your own thinking.
Nida_e_Khair

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007  -  1:20 PM Reply with quote
Hehe. My Dear, non-rigid Brother in Islam, I'm NOT against medicine. I'm simply against the method employed. There are dozens of methods we can figure out; can't we just stick to them?
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007  -  2:22 PM Reply with quote
quote:

I'm NOT against medicine. I'm simply against the method employed.
You mean 'method employed' in teaching or 'method employed' in practicing?
quote:

There are dozens of methods we can figure out
Please suggest a few.
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007  -  5:00 PM Reply with quote
My question to sister Nida,

What is the punishment assigned by Allah for those doctors who look and palpate the parts of the opposite sexes?
Nida_e_Khair

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007  -  8:50 PM Reply with quote
Quote:
You mean 'method employed' in teaching or 'method employed' in practicing?

Mostly, practising.

Quote:
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are dozens of methods we can figure out
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please suggest a few.

I'm not part of the medical staff/administration. I'm sure they can employ other methods.

Quote (of Loveall):
What is the punishment assigned by Allah for those doctors who look and palpate the parts of the opposite sexes?

Allah knows better.


Now that I've answered your questions, please let me mention my real purpose for visiting this forum. I don't wanna argue any more. I'm tired of this discussion. All I'll say is that only Allah knows which one of us is correct. Only He knows best, so let Him (and Him alone) judge b/w me and you on the Day of Judgment.

Wassalaamu 'Alaikum. Wallaahu A'lam.

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