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Bhavittre

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, July 07, 2006  -  3:45 PM Reply with quote
most of the time women in a hiden way are the primary culpritts of zinaa.

keep in mind that a man cannot even touchh a woman if she is not wiling.
Bhavittre

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, July 07, 2006  -  3:46 PM Reply with quote
most of the time women in a hiden way are the primary culpritts of zinaa.

keep in mind that a man cannot even touchh a woman if she is not wiling.
oosman

USA
Posted - Friday, July 07, 2006  -  6:04 PM Reply with quote
Ya Allah!

Save us from the zalimun and the juhla!

Bhavittre said
quote:

most of the time women in a hiden way are the primary culpritts of zinaa.


What is your evidence, have you any statistics to back up your claim, or is it just a whim?

Zulfee said:
quote:

Why is she unable to prove it? There are many ways to prove her innocent if she really is. Ask the concerned experts, if your understanding is not erroneous, lamb, dull, foolish, full of flaws, nonsense, irrelevant, and ignorance based.


Women are many times kidnapped and raped, or drugged and raped. How do you suggest she should prove she was raped. There are no eye witnesses, and no visible signs of force being used. The rapist's friends will testify falsely that he was with them somewhere else at the time of the crime. If she goes to the judge, she has no evidence with her and no witnesses. The chemical test will prove there was intercourse, but it cannot prove it was consential or forced.

If the judge is like you, he will accuse the poor victim, who was been already raped, to having comitted consential sex and punish her to flogging or stoning. This is what happens so many times in Islamic countries. First the woman is oppressed by criminal, then she is oppressed by the sharia system.

May Allah curse such ignorant judges and may His wrath be upon them. And may Allah grant us His refuge from such juhla.
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, July 08, 2006  -  1:35 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Tilawat said: I wonder why 'Zina' is the most hot topic among the Muslims especially in the Land of the Pure.



Tlawat, you have started the topic and blaming others. Why????????
Do not you know?????????


Yes dear Zulfi I am 'guilty' of starting this topic on this forum when it was already a hot topic in the Paky media, especially, the GEO TV.

As for the the reason why it is so, I copy here my comments on another forum
"Comment: In this land of the pure there is nothing but talk of 'Zinna' everywhere these days. This only goes to confirm the findings of an international survey that the Muslims are the most sex-starved nation on the earth. Why? Perhaps because Islam which was a 'Deen e Fitrat' has been converted into a Deen of taboos (Isro ghalaal), especially in case of sex. All moral indignation (Gheirat) of the Muslims has generally got confined to sex alone. As it is the 'Zina' has become the most important topic for them."
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, July 08, 2006  -  2:12 AM Reply with quote
quote:

tilawat,

what you are talking about as description of eastern cultures, especially arab and south asian culture - it appears like zulm.

quote:

In western culture sex even with one's wife against her will may be treated as a crime.


Even in Islamic perspective, a man may not force himself on his spouse - it is zulm. It is only ignorant people in our cultures that justify this horrible deed in the name of Islam. Islam is a religion of mercy, not of zulm.

It is a man's right to be with his spouse, but if the spouse is unwilling, then man cannot rape her.

Abdullah-Ibn-Abbas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_ibn_Abbas) used to be so fearful of this matter that he would not complain about anything to his wife, even if it was his right to demand something from her.

We have an excellent example in our prophet and his companions. Let us follow that and not rationalize wrong actions with our religion.

Edited by: oosman on Saturday, June 10, 2006 12:22 PM


Oosman
You have become moralistically judgmental (jahilya) which is the greatest 'zulm' so 'salaam'. I would welcome this 'Zulm' if it is by the opposite sex. There is a saying by the great Chinese sage Confucius 9spelling?) "If you find your rape inevitable, relax and enjoy". All else is subterfuge.
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, July 08, 2006  -  2:16 AM Reply with quote
quote:

tilawat,

what you are talking about as description of eastern cultures, especially arab and south asian culture - it appears like zulm.

quote:

In western culture sex even with one's wife against her will may be treated as a crime.


Even in Islamic perspective, a man may not force himself on his spouse - it is zulm. It is only ignorant people in our cultures that justify this horrible deed in the name of Islam. Islam is a religion of mercy, not of zulm.

It is a man's right to be with his spouse, but if the spouse is unwilling, then man cannot rape her.

Abdullah-Ibn-Abbas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_ibn_Abbas) used to be so fearful of this matter that he would not complain about anything to his wife, even if it was his right to demand something from her.

We have an excellent example in our prophet and his companions. Let us follow that and not rationalize wrong actions with our religion.

Edited by: oosman on Saturday, June 10, 2006 12:22 PM


Oosman
You have become moralistically judgmental (jahilya) which is the greatest 'zulm' so 'salaam'. I would welcome this 'Zulm' if it is by the opposite sex. There is a saying by the great Chinese sage Confucius 9spelling?) "If you find your rape inevitable, relax and enjoy". All else is subterfuge.
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, July 08, 2006  -  2:22 AM Reply with quote
quote:

tilawat,

what you are talking about as description of eastern cultures, especially arab and south asian culture - it appears like zulm.

quote:

In western culture sex even with one's wife against her will may be treated as a crime.


Even in Islamic perspective, a man may not force himself on his spouse - it is zulm. It is only ignorant people in our cultures that justify this horrible deed in the name of Islam. Islam is a religion of mercy, not of zulm.

It is a man's right to be with his spouse, but if the spouse is unwilling, then man cannot rape her.

Abdullah-Ibn-Abbas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_ibn_Abbas) used to be so fearful of this matter that he would not complain about anything to his wife, even if it was his right to demand something from her.

We have an excellent example in our prophet and his companions. Let us follow that and not rationalize wrong actions with our religion.

Edited by: oosman on Saturday, June 10, 2006 12:22 PM
Zulfee

USA
Posted - Saturday, July 08, 2006  -  7:48 PM Reply with quote
oosman said Women are many times kidnapped and raped, or drugged and raped. How do you suggest she should prove she was raped. There are no eye witnesses, and no visible signs of force being used. The rapist's friends will testify falsely that he was with them somewhere else at the time of the crime. If she goes to the judge, she has no evidence with her and no witnesses. The chemical test will prove there was intercourse, but it cannot prove it was consential or forced.


Why is she unable to prove it? There are many ways to prove her innocent if she really is. ASK THE CONCERNED EXPERTS, if your understanding is not erroneous, lamb, dull, foolish, full of flaws, nonsense, irrelevant, and ignorance based. YOU ARE NOT AN EXPERT.

Edited by: Zulfee on Monday, July 10, 2006 6:42 PM
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, July 10, 2006  -  1:21 AM Reply with quote
I did not say what you attributed to me. It was Oosman's not mine. Check up who is 'stupid' now.
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, July 10, 2006  -  1:33 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Tilawat stupidly said Women are many times kidnapped and raped, or drugged and raped. How do you suggest she should prove she was raped. There are no eye witnesses, and no visible signs of force being used. The rapist's friends will testify falsely that he was with them somewhere else at the time of the crime. If she goes to the judge, she has no evidence with her and no witnesses. The chemical test will prove there was intercourse, but it cannot prove it was consential or forced.


Why is she unable to prove it? There are many ways to prove her innocent if she really is. ASK THE CONCERNED EXPERTS, if your understanding is not erroneous, lamb, dull, foolish, full of flaws, nonsense, irrelevant, and ignorance based. YOU ARE NOT AN EXPERT.


The post quoted above has wrongly been attributed to me. It was Oosman's not mine. This is blatant 'Qazaf' and as such you Mr. Zulfi have become liable to the punishment of 80 straps and to be declared a lier for ever.
Zulfee

USA
Posted - Monday, July 10, 2006  -  6:28 PM Reply with quote
Tilawat

What I have done, for which you suggested 80 srips?
Zulfee

USA
Posted - Monday, July 10, 2006  -  6:30 PM Reply with quote
Tilawat

If my punishments is 80 strips then you are liable to be beaten by 100 strips/stoned/ hanged/killed because you have provided the opportunities after making the environment IE you are the master planner.

Edited by: Zulfee on Monday, July 10, 2006 6:39 PM
Zulfee

USA
Posted - Monday, July 10, 2006  -  6:44 PM Reply with quote
You said: It was Oosman's not mine.

OK!
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, July 11, 2006  -  1:18 AM Reply with quote
Zullfi

What do you mean by OK? You accused me of a 'zulm' on a pretext which is obviously false and you can't say 'Sorry' even.

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