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Amatullahi

USA
Topic initiated on Monday, September 29, 2003  -  9:56 AM Reply with quote
What is the Role of Doctors in our lives?


Assalamu Alaikum,

Sometimes i do get confused, especially when we say Doctors save life. Allah has said in the Qur'an that everybody has a set time in this world and when that time comes it won't be a minute less or a minute more. We also know that Allah gives and takes life. So what is the role of doctors in our lives?

Yahoogroup
ayesha

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, September 29, 2003  -  11:51 AM Reply with quote
Sounds similar to 'a mother gives birth'? God creates and brings us to this world so how can mothers give birth?

At one point the Quran states that whosoever takes one life; kills all humanity and whosoever gives one life gives the life to all humanity. These may not be the exact words but I am just writing off the top of my head just to explain to you my understanding of the answer to your question.

Only Allah can take a life or give/save a life. People can be instruments.

This is only my understanding.

Regards.
iqbappi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, September 29, 2003  -  1:14 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Assalamu Alaikum,

Sometimes i do get confused, especially when we say Doctors save life. Allah has said in the Qur'an that everybody has a set time in this world and when that time comes it won't be a minute less or a minute more. We also know that Allah gives and takes life. So what is the role of doctors in our lives?

Yahoogroup



friend
iqbappi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, September 29, 2003  -  1:21 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Assalamu Alaikum,

Sometimes i do get confused, especially when we say Doctors save life. Allah has said in the Qur'an that everybody has a set time in this world and when that time comes it won't be a minute less or a minute more. We also know that Allah gives and takes life. So what is the role of doctors in our lives?

Yahoogroup


assalam u aleekum
look around whether doctors realy save life.persons bearing same diagnosis and taking similar therapy one may improve while other die inspite of all efforts.this indicates decision is somewhere else.

friend
Amatullahi

USA
Posted - Tuesday, September 30, 2003  -  2:38 AM Reply with quote
Assalamu Alaikum sister Ayesha,

I know the role of mothers, there is no confusion in that. Afterall nobody has ever said mothers create children! i have enough education of my religion especially Tauhid to know that.

When you say people can be instruments, yes that makes sense to me.

Yahoogroup
Razi Allah

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, September 30, 2003  -  1:08 PM Reply with quote
While it is true that the next beat of my heart will only be possible if Allah allows it and that our dependence on Him is beyond all limits, it should be admitted that we live in a world created by Him that largely operates through cause and effect. Your question relates to the concept of freewill and predestination; a topic that has confounded philosophers and intellectuals for centuries. Muslim intellectual tradition has had its fair share of debates and schisms on this issue. Here's my take on it.

We have been sent in this world to be tested. We can be tested only if freewill is accorded to us. That freewill, however, has a limited sphere. Thus, for instance normally we cannot decide the nature, time or place of our death or more accurately, no one knows when and how death will overtake him/her. In our test we are presented with various moral choices or combinations of them throughout our lives. It is our choices in the limited sphere of freewill, influenced by the innate morality and revelation, or a lack thereof, that decide our eventual fate. Another aspect crucial to understanding this concept is Allah's knowledge of our actions resulting from freewill. He already knows what choices we are going to make and has it all written down but His knowledge doesn't affect the choices we make.

With this concept in mind, we can extend the example of a doctor saving someone's life. If a patient's life depends upon the doctor's operating upon him/her, and the doctor operates and saves the patient, apparently he has given life to him/her. But what has in fact happened is that the doctor has made a moral choice by deciding to operate using his freewill. Suppose the patient was unable to pay the doctor's fee resulting in the doctor's deciding against operating. The patient dies and again the doctor has made a choice using his free will, apparently taking the life of a human being. Therefore we see that doctors play a role in our lives as we live in a world of cause and effect. So where does God occur in this example? All along! If He had ordained for this patient to live, regardless of the doctor's choice, he would have lived. If on the other hand the patient's time was up, no doctor could have saved him/her. The patient was God's way of testing the doctor and after the choice is made, he/she is used as an instrument, remember cause and effect, to deliver the will of the Most Gracious, Most Exalted Lord of the universe.

Edited by - Razi Allah on October 01 2003 02:31:31
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Wednesday, October 01, 2003  -  5:05 AM Reply with quote
Assalamo alaykum/Peace

I thought while you all are talking about us, doctors, i may as well jump in!
I can tell from my experience in this profession as you have very rightly mentioned that finally what happens, whether life saved or lost, lies in the hands of Lord the Supreme;
there are times when inspite of highest technologies our hands are tied up and on other occasions miracles can happen out of nowhere and life is saved.
We do have case discussion in clinical meetings when something goes wrong and its amazing to find out how a chain of events had occured to lead to certain outcome.
Usually its not just one incidence which happens in a case, things just work in a manner e.g. failure of an equipment suddenly, human error combined incidently in the same chain of events although later or before, poor response on the part of patient, somebody absent already for some pre-existing reason, unexpected allergic reaction ; and when everything is looked at retrospectively, one feels as if something was due to happen and events occured to lead to that accident.

Although aim is to learn from mistakes and take into account things which were preventable and can be avoided in future as a part of "clinical governance", but one cannot avoid concluding at the same time that there is a Hand behind every event for the final result, whether good or bad, and we as slaves to His Highness should be praying to Him persistently to have the best results while we try our best, with His will.

Just like you check the fuel and oil in your car, condition of tyres, and make sure its in best condition to run on motorway, but then you pray for a safe journey as even the 0 mileage vehicle can breakdown any time, anywhere!
Amatullahi

USA
Posted - Wednesday, October 01, 2003  -  7:55 AM Reply with quote
Thank you very much Doctor. This is a very educative contribution from the 'horse's mouth'.

Yahoogroup
safaa

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, October 04, 2003  -  6:20 PM Reply with quote
Yes and even if we are successful to save a life, it is with the will of Allah, no doubt.In fact we should not be proud of ourself afterward because we are only hands to deliver God's will.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Sunday, October 05, 2003  -  1:04 AM Reply with quote
peace

yes dr. safaa, u r right
and thanx for ur contribution

as u said we must remember the "really shook the bridge" by ants
aslam

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, October 05, 2003  -  5:06 PM Reply with quote
Assalam-u-Alaikum,
Here I,ve a question,though a bit irrelevent.
If our death,afflictions etc., are pre-ordained what is the use and relevance of Dua(prayer(?
Amatullahi

USA
Posted - Sunday, October 05, 2003  -  11:07 PM Reply with quote
Assalamu Alaikum,

The question is not irrelevant, we are all talking about the same thing - 'pre-ordained'.

My own understanding of du'a is that it is a form of worship. Allah has told us to make du'a and whenever we do, we show our obedience to the Creator. Human beings been what we are, always need one thing or the other. Du'a comes in handy always.

Death has been pre-ordained as you rightly put and we do not make du'a to avoid death - it is our wish to live long, but we all know when the appointed time is here one has to answer it. So what we do is ask Allah to make us of those who will go back to Him with a clean and clear mind full of faith and to make our abode the paradise.

In regard to afflictions, one thing we should know is what Allah said in Qur'an 57:22 'No calamity befalls on the earth or in yourselves but it is inscribed in the book before we bring it into existence. Verily that is easy for Allah.' It is not as if we know any calamity will befall us but at the same time we are not sure it will not since it has been happening. So our hope is calling on Allah to divert all calamities from us. Some scholars have said that our du'a works to reduce the impact of what was actually ordained for us. Like if one were to have an accident and one engage in du'a, Allah makes it happen as a minor accident.

Come to think of it, we do not know what is pre-ordained for us unless it actually happens.

We also know that whatever happens to us is a test of our faith (Q29:2-3)how we deal with it is what actually counts. This is to say that we accept it is from Allah and we make du'a to Him in removing that which is bad and thanking Him for that which is good.

we know Allah answers du'a and has told us to call on Him alone whenever there is need, this makes du'a very useful. An example is that of one of the messengers of Allah, Yunus. In the Qur'an 37:143-144 Allah has said had he not been of them who glorify Allah he would have been left in the belly of the fish until the day of judgement. Many scholars have commented on this to show the role of du'a.

There is a hadith that shows the companions of the prophet(PBUH) only considered missing a prayer in a congregation as a real calamity. A test in our lives in regards to worldly things i personally feel, should serve to make one stronger in faith and be more thankful to the Creator.

I do hope i made sense.

Assalamu Alaikum.

Yahoogroup
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Wednesday, April 28, 2004  -  12:50 AM Reply with quote
asalamoalaykum
many a times things happen which indicate clearly that God is helping u to save a life
for e.g. symptoms of the patient direct us to the condition.
usually a person does not die suddenly; if a patient attends emergency, even with a hidden dangerous condition,e.g. an aneurysm(cyst in a blood vessel) about to rupture, he shows certain signs e.g. of collapse, rising pulse rate, dipping blood pressure, even if someone is not monitoring them, he will collapse/loose conciousness when medical staff can get alert and check parameters.
if our Creator had not organized this system, it wud b very difficult to get to conclusions, before someone had actually died.
and drs. do get a sixth sense message someimes to go and check something fishy.
i believe all this is help from God when He wishes to save a life or wen that person is destined to live!
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, April 30, 2004  -  4:03 AM Reply with quote
so if the drs took the credit of saving life, it wud be like the ants and elephants :
that wen the elephants had crossed the bridge over, which shook as they walked, the ants following them started jumping with excitement "we really shook the bridge," wait a minute,
who actually did shake the bridge here?
imran776

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, May 01, 2004  -  7:49 AM Reply with quote
AOA,

A very informative and very important discussion is going on. Here is what my understanding is.

First everything is in the hands of Allah. What does this mean. As mentioned in Quran: When he says/wishes/orders something it happens. The question is that how it happens. In my understanding we shoud say: Whenever he(Allah) says/wishes something, it happens according to its principles. He has made a setup for the happening of each and everything. It does not happen abruptly.

God has developed a system for life and he given human beings brains to understand the phenomemen involved. When the system goes wrong, there is a cure for it, another system. It does not automatically cures or goes right by itself. What we do is that we understand that system and thats it.

The computer through which we are communicating is made by someone. When we appreciate it, in fact we are not appreciating the machine, we are actually appreciating the manufacturer(the originator). The proper functioning of this computer depends upon the specifications provided by the manufacturer. When it goes wrong we try to find out what is wrong and then try to fix it. If we supply 440 volts rather than 220V then system will blow up and no longer usable. Sometimes the Windows goes corrupt, we repair it by installing the Windows again. And after sometime the system will be of no use coz the technology might has changed. The computer has fullfiled its purpose. What a computer technician is doing is putting back things to thier prescribed state.

Same is the case with human life. He is here for a trial period. When that period is over no one can save him. He has to go. And between the peiod of his birth and death things might go wrong. What the doctors do, try to put the system back to their original or working state letting that human to wait for the end of his trial peiod. This all is the system. Human has the same importance as that computer technician has. Understand the sysetm, think and act accordingly.

The actual problem is that unlike real life, when it comes to relationship with Allah we confuse it. What i think it rather than complicating things, we should try to understand the principles on human level with examples from our daily happenings. This is how Quran explain things. What is God's introduction to humans. We dont recognise him physically coz we cannot.We dont have the capability. Rather Quran introduces him through his propertis (Sifat) the partial reflection of which we can see in every human being. So think as a human not as a God.

Second the concept of Dua. The principle of ALlah through which he regulates the lives is that the humans have the control over their efforts. The outcome of their efforts, Allah has kept in his hands. This principle is so common that we can easily observe it in our daily lives. ( Its another issue that happening and not happening of things is again regulated by another principle of God that is the pricipal of trial). So offering dua means saying that Allah I have done all my possible efforts, now its your turn to make it happen if its good for me. Rather what i personally think that doing efforts while keeping in mind that the outcome of this is in hands of Allah is itself offering Dua. So the effort is itself a Dua which is translated into words afterwards.

So in short ( after such a long writing which might be boring) we should try to understand the matters of God being a human being not by standing at the position of God. This is the biggest mistake the philosphy has committed.

This all is my personal opinion. Definitely would like to hear further on this topic.

Remember me in your prayers

Allah Hafiz
Imran Yousuf
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, May 01, 2004  -  12:31 PM Reply with quote
thnx and thats quite understandable dearest br. imran which u hv explained v. well as per ur I.T.speciality.
(but if u don't mind, computers r the worst patients, b/c e.g.
soon as u buy one, a new model has come in the market, u think they r solving ur problem, but half the time they "are" a problem.and many a times to save ur system it needs Ctrl+Alt=Delete(saara syapa mukao). donno whether dua works in their case? hoping to see you today for one of such syapas)

i agree that while doing their best, drs must pray for their patients., even after simple operations, for their quick n easy recovery

peace

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