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raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Wednesday, July 01, 2009  -  12:47 PM Reply with quote
quote:

. As a head of the institution he cannot, of course, be held rebellious (nashooz) against himself though it is he only in the family who is liable to be punished for dereliction of his duty under the law.

a family as a member ,responsible for the laws adopted by its society.
what do you think?
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, July 03, 2009  -  1:38 AM Reply with quote
@shehzads

You say:

“Tilawat I dont agree with you.we are not talking about arab culture here. we are talking about a civilized islamic system,where a man and woman are equally sharing and equally responsible.”

What do you mean by the ‘civilized islamic system’? Is it not the one laid down in the Quran – vide verse 34 of Sura 4 (Al-nissa) - as the Islam brought by the prophet (PBUH) who was proud to be called an ‘Arabi’ and ‘UMMI’?

Btw, how can you keep a discipline in any institution which has no boss with responsibility with any authoritative powers and no duties laid down for all its members?

The Holy Quran prescribes the duty of the husband to maintain his family, what is the duty in your opinion laid down for the wife except to be obedient to him.
shehzads

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, July 05, 2009  -  12:45 PM Reply with quote
As it says in surah Juma verse no:2, the arabs of the time have been called ummis and that they were in the darkness of the arab culture of jahliyyah untill the light of Islam came to radiate their lives.This was the civilized islamic culture which is free of the baggage of the arab culture. islam accepts the good aspects of all the cultures of the world and rejects the negative things in any.

tilawat, why do you feel so threatened about man's or husband's sovereignty in the islamic family unit? no one has denied this nor are we conflicting about the leading role of husband in the house.
We are rather talking about the fact that when a man or husband or father of the house gets involved in a similar crime i.e. nashooz for which he was punishing his wife(we do not agree that the method of this punishment has to be beating in all circumstances regardless;the ways & methods of this warning and punishment can vary according to the local laws, rules and regulations etc) then what and how should that husband be punished for committing the same crime? because now it's himself who is spoiling and putting at stake the discipline and peace of the family. just like-- what will you do to a president or leader of a nation when he himself starts creating disorder in the country as to the destruction of the people?

Edited by: shehzads on Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:31 PM
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, July 06, 2009  -  1:31 AM Reply with quote
@shehzads

Excuse me dear you have become subjectively judgmental when the issue is purely technical. My point is how can a head of the family under any circumstances, be held guilty of 'nashoos', meaning rebellious, against himself, when he is treated as a sovereign head of the family in terms of verse 4/34 of the Quran, laying down the fundamental laws for, what you call, the 'civilized Islam' .

It is another question whether the Arabs of the pre-Islamic period, including the great men like Abutalib and the great women like Khadeejah and above all the 'Rehmatulaalimin' himself, who was brought up as a child by Mai Halimah in 'baadiah' could, as a whole, be called un-civilized or not, by a sweeping judgment like yours .
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Wednesday, July 08, 2009  -  3:19 PM Reply with quote
renowned as these great personalities, you named were, though coming from the time of ignorance or jahiliyah, they did not become reluctant at all to accept the radiance that islam brought and changed their lives accordingly.
shehzads

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, July 09, 2009  -  11:07 PM Reply with quote
Dear Tilawat. walaykum assalam.Yeas he can go rebellious against his own family when he gets involved in a crime just like we have been discussing about a woman.even if he is the head of the family, is still a human being and can make mistakes. does not become God,does he?
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, July 20, 2009  -  1:39 PM Reply with quote
@shehzads

You say:

"Yeas he can go rebellious against his own family when he gets involved in a crime just like we have been discussing about a woman.even if he is the head of the family, is still a human being and can make mistakes. does not become God,does he?"

No dear, it is not the question of crime, but of obedience and loyalty to the head of the institution, i.e., the husband. He being husband is duty bound to maintain his family and if he fails in that duty he can be tried under the common law of the land and coercive measures can be adopted by the court to make him fulfill his duty. There are instnces where husbands have been sent to jail even if they fail to provide maintenance in compliance with court's orders. But mind this cannot be called 'nashooz' in terms of Islamic Sharia.

Now the question is if the husband cannot beat his wife who is 'nashooz' and neither is there any law to punish her for her rebellion against her husband what the poor husband is to do as the head of the family to save his family from breaking up. It is easy to say he can divorce such a wife forthwith, but it has many practical difficulties, especially, for the urban middle class. As for the village tribal society this leads to 'karokari' against which the feminists raise much hue and cry these days without suggesting any solution of the problem, created apparently by the movement for women empowerment under the influence of the western culture where family has lost any
importance whatsoever. In England, it is said, about 40% couples are living together today without any formal marriage. The young men here also are becoming increasingly wary of
formal marriage which is becoming gradually more disadvantageous for them. As it is we are perhaps moving fast to a serious sex-crises.
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, July 23, 2009  -  1:46 AM Reply with quote
@hkhan

You say:

"renowned as these great personalities, you named were, though coming from the time of ignorance or jahiliyah, they did not become reluctant at all to accept the radiance that islam brought and changed their lives accordingly."

I wonder why there is a tendency, especially among the non-Arab Muslims, to paint pre-Islmic Arabs blacker than they were when Islamic culture is essentially an Arabian one and Islamic revolution was in essence an Arab revolution.

The change which Islam brought among Arabs was to liberate them from subjugation of oppressive religion, i.e., 'Isro-ghallaal' in the words of Quran. But it gave rise instead to the phnomenon of 'Munafiqiin' (hypocrites).
shehzads

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, July 24, 2009  -  7:47 PM Reply with quote
Arabs also had both good and bad qualities like any other people or nation. Tilawat, have you read the example of the Nashooz by a brother of your's in Ramadan Forum.what do you say about such a situation?
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, July 25, 2009  -  1:33 AM Reply with quote
@shehzads

Sorry, I could not find any example of nashooz there. Please quote the specific part of the forum here.
shehzads

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, July 25, 2009  -  1:31 PM Reply with quote
Look again with proper commitment and heart into it. you will find it. It's not a good habit to ask for everything ready made and get used to spoon feeding. Generally our people have a very little initiative for research and hard work. Every one wants a ready pudding in a plate!
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, July 26, 2009  -  2:04 AM Reply with quote
@shehzads

Won't you oblige us with a pudding in your plate, dear?
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Sunday, July 26, 2009  -  7:02 PM Reply with quote
why u men start fighting like children on everything

here it is tilawat. scroll down the link:

http://www.studying-islam.org/forum/topic.aspx?topicid=963&;pg=2&lang=&forumid=37

sala'm
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, July 28, 2009  -  11:03 PM Reply with quote
@hkhan

Thank you but i don't find any mention of 'nashooz' therin.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, July 28, 2009  -  11:20 PM Reply with quote
hmm...we r impressed.u up at 4am for this topic~surely finding it very interesting
look again wen u r fully awake;after fajar

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