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hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, February 28, 2009  -  9:19 AM Reply with quote
He was not sent for upbringing to Bibi Haleema but for breast feeding only for a short period of time. (This tells us the importance of breast feeding in itself and is a lesson for the ladies today who do not wish to do it. Rather a few years back a survey in our area showed that Pakistani ladies were lowest in the graph on breast feeding. One of the important reasons found was that mothers in law(mil) ask the mothers of the babies to stop b.feeding asap and resume normal house work because servants aren't easily available here;rather the mil would hold he baby in lap and feed with a bottle whilst ordering the dil(daughter in law) to carry on with the cleaning, cooking 'n washing )
xyzxyz

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Saturday, February 28, 2009  -  4:33 PM Reply with quote
quote:

He was not sent for upbringing to Bibi Haleema but for breast feeding only for a short period of time.

What about breast feeding by his (pbuh) own mother (Bibi Amina)?
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, February 28, 2009  -  7:36 PM Reply with quote
the 2nd point associated with this tradition was to expose the child to a healthy environment out of thehustle andbustle of the crowded area where people lived. the person selected for b.feeding would be a respected and morally reliable person. i suppose this tradition also gave some relief to the mothers to look after other affairs of the houses with large families as it was those days.
nowadays in the modern world b.milk banks are availabe but many women are reluctant to use that milk not knowing the donor fully, secondly being stored milk etc.
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, March 01, 2009  -  12:35 AM Reply with quote
No dear hkhan, excuse me, it is no reply but just hanky panky. I cannot understand why a widowed urban woman should hand over her only child to a woman of a wandering tribe even for a single day and treat her household more important than nursing her child.

My other point that whether this practice is still followed by the urban mothers of Arabs today and why not when its necessity would have increased manifold, has not been touched by you.

Btw, how do you say that the child was handed over to Mai Haleema for a short time? As we gather from Hdees the prophet respected Mai Haleema very much which shows that he would have remained in her custody for three or four years, the most formative years in the child's life. I say this because I was also breast-feeded for a short time by neighborly peasant woman. My mother would often order me to call her mother as I had been breast-feeded by her (which I did not remember) but I would say I had drunk milk of a cow also should I call her mother too.
mbellos

NIGERIA
Posted - Monday, March 02, 2009  -  12:05 AM Reply with quote
Assalamoaleikum warahmatullahewabarakatuhu.Two or four years is not too long in a person's life but important in the beginning of one's life. Even today in rural areas it is a common practice to breast feed children for even upto 4 years of age. So Prophet Muhammad salawatu wassalam like other children of the time and space was sent out of the city life for a short period of time for breast-feeding and healthy and fresh air.It was his kind and decent nature and later the teachings of Islam that he always remained thankful and obliged to his Razai mother.
As for Daraba, one should predict the ways of warning one's spouse (in the particular situation of transgression and putting the foundation of the family at stake) according to the norm and prevailing methods of warning in the society they live in. If beating one's wife is a crime in the law of that country, they will obviously replace it with an acceptable alternative. So there is no need to go on beating around the bush. It is common sense like most matters in the Deen are.Unless one just wishes to follow one's desires without trying to see and understand the wisdom and purpose behind the Divine Laws.
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, March 02, 2009  -  11:35 PM Reply with quote
I am sorry to say that it is still all hanky panky and beating about the bush. Mecca was not so smog and pollution ridden city then as most large cities of today are, but we don't find mention of any one else of urban child to have been sent to the country side in the custody of a woman of a wandering tribe just for fresh air like the prophet, especially when we are told that he was the only child of his widowed mother. Why, there is such a big why and no body bothers to seek an answer to it?
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, March 03, 2009  -  10:14 PM Reply with quote
Its alright. Both of you must have collected ur info from different sources. u all can opine here. but without insisting that only one is right! there are loads of diff. info resources about the life of prophet sws and therefore people may differ in their opinion

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&;ie=ISO-8859-1&q=seerat+e+rasool&aq=f&oq=
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, March 03, 2009  -  11:38 PM Reply with quote
@hkhan

No dear hkhan I have no contention on the facts as described in various Ahadees about the childhood of the prophet, but what I find lacking in all of them is the answer to the questions raised by me. So I have no option but to end this discussion with the Quranic saying "Affala tadabbaroon" (Why don't you think?).
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, March 05, 2009  -  4:42 PM Reply with quote
aray bhai tilawat aap hamesha itnay naraaz kewn rehtay try n enjoy these forums with a free and light mind.
(but am glad u r not using some unacceptable words again in ur annoyance; although even calling other people's opinion as 'hanky panky' is a bit rude.u may hv made sr. mbellos a bit ...)
same thread is on at
http://www.studying-islam.org/forum/topic.aspx?topicid=2825&;lang=&forumid=26

if u r still not satisfied u may write to our Q service.

keep sending us ur nice posts

may Allah keep our brothers n sisters safe and happy in pakistan and everywhere in the world. amen

wassala'm
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, March 07, 2009  -  1:00 AM Reply with quote
Thank you dear hkhan for your kind advice and a reference to another thread on treatment of wife.

I wonder why, especially the middle class people, do not, out of schavinism or feminism perhaps, treat women as human beings, to be treated just like we deal with other human beings. The marriage being a social contract which requires the wife to surrender her 'nafs' (Baiwaz haq mehr, of course). Now if she turns 'nashizah' or even an open enemy to her husband what should the poor man do.
Thameena

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, May 16, 2009  -  1:13 PM Reply with quote
Salams,

Abizain, I have already given my responses in this matter, in light of the Quran and the sunnah of the Prophet that domestic abuse and violence is not permitted in Islam under any circumstances.

By posting the above evidence I have proved to you that:

1. The prophet pbuh NEVER beat or encouraged the beating, or the abuse of any woman, (child or servant).

2. The hadiths of the prophet are clear about treating women kindly and forbiding men from abusing and beating their wives.

3. Most importantly is the clear evidence in the Quran that Allah swt has forbidden abuse and beating in these verses, where He has instructed to treat women with equity and kindness and not to be harsh or abuse them in any manner, whether physical, mental or emotional. See the Quran: 2:231

Either retain them in kindness or release them in kindness. DO NOT retain them in order to injure (or hurt) them; or to take undue advantage; if any one does that he has WRONGED his own soul. DO NOT treat Allah's Signs as a jest, but solemnly rehearse Allah's favours on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and Wisdom, for your instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all things.

See also the Qur'an 4:19

O ye who believe! ye are FORBIDDEN to inherit women against their will. NOR should ye treat them with harshness that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of KINDNESS and EQUITY. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.

4. We know the there are several meanings of the word 'daraba' which also means to separate. The Quran can not contradict itself and according to the law of the Quran, we should take the best meaning of the true message of the Quran and the prophet's message:

"Those who listen to the Word (the Quran) and follow the best meaning in it: those are the ones whom Allah has guided and those are the one's endowed with understanding." - Quran 39:18

5. Finally Allah swt says in the Quran 4:59 that if we disagree "O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable.

It is clear and evident from the above verses that Allah forbids the abuse of women and it is also obvious and clear that the Messenger never beat his wives and forbade men from such abuse from various authentic hadiths.

"DO NOT beat the female servants of Allah." (Abu Dawud)

"Among the Muslims, the most perfect as regards his faith is the one whose character is most excellent, and the best among you are those who treat their wives WELL." (At-Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud).

Prophet Muhammad said: "Only an honorable man treat women with honor and integrity. And only a mean, deceitful and dishonest man humiliates and insults women." Referring to physical abuse, he added: "Never hit your wives, they are your partners and sincere helpers." He exemplified this by never, ever, hitting a women or child. The Prophet guaranteed protection of the life, honor, and property of women.

“I went to the apostle of Allah (pbuh) and asked him: ‘What do you say [command] about our wives?’ He replied: ‘Give them the same food you have for yourself, and clothe them with the same clothes you clothe yourself, and DON NOT beat them, and DO NOT revile them.’” (Reported by Abu-Dawud.)

Furthermore, the Prophet said: “It is not lawful for a Muslim to scare his fellow Muslim.” (Reported by Ahmad & Abu Dawud).

In the Quran 65:6 Allah swt says:

"Do not annoy women as to make their lives miserable."

Hadith Qudsi:

"O My slaves, I have forbidden myself oppression and I have made it between you forbidden, so do not oppress one another." Muslim

And all cruelty is forbidden.

Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one." People asked, "O Allah's Apostle! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?" The Prophet said, "By PREVENTING him from oppressing others."

The Muslim woman has many rights in Islam, first as an adult human being, then equal rights as a Muslim, like yourself, as well other rights as a daughter, mother and wife. She also has the full right to be protected from all her oppressors:

"And why should you not fight in the cause of God and on behalf of those, who being weak, are ill-treated and oppressed, men, women and children whose cry is, 'Our Lord! Rescue us from these oppressors, and raise for us, from You, one who will protect and help.'" (Qur'an 4:75)

Marriage in Islam is about love, peace and harmony, it is not about creating hatred, abuse and violence (persecution, oppression, fitna and fasad).

Quran 30:21

And among His signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves that you may live [dwell] in tranquility with them, and He has put LOVE and MERCY between you; verily, in that are signs for people who REFLECT.


_____________________________________
Thameena

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, May 16, 2009  -  1:25 PM Reply with quote
Jazak Allahkhair Anajee and others who supported the true essence of Islam.

Quran 33:36. It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, May 16, 2009  -  2:03 PM Reply with quote
thx everyone for ur informative comments;
interestingly one of the local community police officer friend of mine, to whom i gave some of our reading material for intro, social shariah of islam, picked specifically this point from the book about 'beating wives' and had some Q and interesting remarks about it.
Nadir

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Tuesday, May 19, 2009  -  2:15 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Quran 33:36. It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.


4: 34 الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنْفَقُوا مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللَّهُ وَاللاتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلا تَبْغُوا عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلا إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا

4:34. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and beat (scourge) (adhrib) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Nadir

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Tuesday, May 19, 2009  -  2:16 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Quran 33:36. It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.


4: 34 الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنْفَقُوا مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللَّهُ وَاللاتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلا تَبْغُوا عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلا إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا

4:34. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and beat (scourge) (adhrib) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, May 19, 2009  -  11:37 PM Reply with quote
hkhan

Thank you for your kind rememberance!

you say:

"interestingly one of the local community police officer friend of mine, to whom i gave some of our reading material for intro, social shariah of islam, picked specifically this point from the book about 'beating wives' and had some Q and interesting remarks about it."

Won't you share those interesting points with us, please?

As for the topic under discussion, I don't think we can reach any consensus when the matter has become a gender issue. We may better refer the matter to the third party, the middle-sex party.

Btw, there are also Taliban, a force to reckon with these days in Pakistan who are enforcing Islamic injunction, which forbades women going out of
home without a ‘mehram’. According to them Islam does not allow women going out even for education. I wonder the participants are quite oblivious of this new factor. I tend to agree with the Taliban on this point.

What our feminist protagonists have to say in this respect?

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