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tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, May 20, 2009  -  12:08 AM Reply with quote
@Thameena

You say:

"4. We know the there are several meanings of the word 'daraba' which also means to separate. The Quran can not contradict itself and according to the law of the Quran, we should take the best meaning of the true message of the Quran and the prophet's message:"

So you mean that it is the discretion of each individual to take the meaning of the true message of Quran which appear best to him.

For me, as a husband, the best meaning of the word 'zaraba' would be to beat the wife severely till she abandons her rebellion and starts obeying me.

But the question is what should I do if she is my only wife and I am not in a position either to separate her or to beat her?

@hkhan

Won't you please share with us the questions raised by a friend of yours on the subject?
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, May 21, 2009  -  8:12 AM Reply with quote
nice to hear from u T~how r u

u may write to her via:

studyingislamuk@aol.com

salam

Edited by: hkhan on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:05 AM
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Sunday, May 24, 2009  -  6:01 AM Reply with quote
Punish wife-beaters, says court president

ref: http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&;contentID=2009052138558

Saleh Aaal Al-Sheikh, President of the District Court in Riyadh, has said that any husband who slaps or beats his wife severely should be punished.

Al-Sheikh, speaking on the issue following remarks by a Saudi judge earlier this month saying that wives deserved to be slapped by their husbands if they overspent on clothes, said that Islam has honored human beings by protecting them from any assault and abuse. Islam has stipulated the penalties for anyone who commits mistakes.

The husband may discipline the wife if she commits a mistake, but that doesnt mean slapping her in the face or beating her cruelly, Al-Sheikh told Okaz newspaper.

Some Ulema (religious scholars) have said that he may only discipline her with the Siwak stick (a small twig used as a toothbrush), but slapping in the face is definitely forbidden in all cases, whether the wife is guilty or not, Al-Sheikh said.

Domestic violence should be punished by the law, even if the wife withdraws her complaint, he added.

raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Sunday, May 24, 2009  -  11:38 AM Reply with quote
quote:


For me, as a husband, the best meaning of the word 'zaraba' would be to beat the wife severely till she abandons her rebellion and starts obeying me.
But the question is what should I do if she is my only wife and I am not in a position either to separate her or to beat her?


Nobody need any scripture to allow him to beat his wife/girlfriend black and blue.Many in the free civilized world follow what their anger direct them to do.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,926135,00.html
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, May 25, 2009  -  1:46 AM Reply with quote
@aboosait

They need perhaps Swati Taliban to correct those feminist judges.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, May 25, 2009  -  11:35 AM Reply with quote
pehlay tow woh aap ko hee "theek" karein gaey insh'A~
do look after them well as they come down to you from the mountains
StudentAffairs

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, May 26, 2009  -  7:31 AM Reply with quote
Dear Tilawat salam (peace)
You have been restricted from the forums due to the use of unacceptable language (deleted from here) on a public chat place, more so, a religious website.
You may write an apologies to admin@studying-islam.org if you wish to return.
However there is no restriction upon you to continue studying our free online courses.
Team @ Studying Islam

Edited by: studentaffairs on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:54 AM
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Tuesday, June 02, 2009  -  9:31 AM Reply with quote
I ve seen whenever people discuss this issue ,they divert or actually jump to ''the punishment'' part and then start discussing how to maintain soft attitude towards the criminal in other words.

I think we must discuss 'the crime' before'' the punishment''.It should be explained how 'serious' the crime is and what would be its after effects ,and then go for punishments in steps as suggested.It would be interesting to know how to prove the crime first and if the husband needs any witnesses for this crime.

I would request intelligent and knowledgable prople here to please tell us as what would be the punishment for a husband for the same crime(i.e.Nushooz)?

care for reply
wassalam
shahidas

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Wednesday, June 03, 2009  -  11:21 PM Reply with quote
Quran teaches us to think logically. think with cool mind and then decide the best course of action.

if the relationship between a husband and wife gets that bad that it would get to the stage of severley beating up his wife ( in other words cant keep calm and cool mind but reaching extreme anger ) resulting in GBH ( causing greivous body harm ), then he should think. Islam has allowed him to separate or divorce his wife if their chemistry do not match when one is always getting to this stage to loose his temper and harm her.

now this solution is self explanatory. as it is obvious, allowing the permission to both sexes to separate or even seek divorce when there is no harmony in the relationship so beating up is out of question. We would have all heard the Hadith when Prphet ( pbuh ) allowed a lady to seek divorce from her husband when she complained she did not love him.

therefore we should not continue argument for the sake of argument and this is the seventh page but confusion remains when there is no basis for it.
avi2009

INDIA
Posted - Friday, June 05, 2009  -  7:57 AM Reply with quote
Dear readers,

I red an article written by Edip Yuksel about the subject, which I think, is the most appropriate opinion.
---------------------------------------
"Verse 4:34 of the Quran orders believers to beat their wives; so, Islam is a male dominant religion." Many of us have heard this criticism from Christians, atheists, agnostics, etc. How does God, the Most Wise order us to beat our women? What kind of solution is that? It is in contrast to the verses in which God describes marriage:


"Among His signs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other. He places in your heart love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are signs for people who think." (30:21)

Obviously, this mixed messages have bothered many contemporary translators of the Quran. To avoid the moral and intellectual problems, they tried to soften the word "beat" when they translate the verse 4:34. For instance, Yusuf Ali uses a merciful parentheses after "beat" to save women:


". . . As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly). . ." (4:34)

The problem comes from the word "Idribuhunne" which we used to translate as "beat them". The root of this word is "DaRaBa". If you look at any Arabic dictionary you will find a long list of meanings ascribed to this word. That list is one of the longest list in whole Arabic dictionary. It can be said that "DaRaBa" is the number-one multi-meaning word in Arabic. It has so many different meanings, we can find numerous different meanings ascribed to it in the Quran.

• To travel, to get out: 3:156; 4:101; 38:44; 73:20; 2:273
• To strike: 2:60,73; 7:160; 8:12; 20:77; 24:31; 26:63; 37:93; 47:4
• To beat: 8:50; 47:27
• To set up: 43:58; 57:13
• To give (examples): 14:24,45; 16:75,76,112; 18:32,45; 24:35; 30:28,58; 36:78; 39:27,29; 43:17; 59:21; 66:10,11
• To take away, to ignore: 43:5
• To condemn: 2:61
• To seal, to draw over: 18:11
• To cover: 24:31
• To explain: 13:17
As you see, in Quran we can witness the verb "DaRaBa" having at least ten different meanings. "DaRaBa" has also other meanings which are not mentioned in the Quran. For example, in the Arabic language, you do not print money--you "DaRaBa" money, you do not multiply numbers--you "DaRaBa" numbers, you do not cease the work--you "DaRaBa" the work. In English we have two verbs which are almost equivalent to "DaRaBa". These are "strike" and "beat".
Webster's Dictionary gives fourteen meanings to the verb "strike": hit (against); ignite; (of snake) bite; (of plants) (cause to) take root; attack; hook (fish); sound (time) as bell in clock etc.; affect; arrive at, come upon; enter mind of; discover (gold, oil etc.); dismantle, remove; make (coin); cease work as protest or to make demands. The same dictionary gives eight meanings to the verb "beat": strike repeatedly; overcome; surpass; stir vigorously with striking action; flap (wings); make, wear (path); throb; sail against wind.
In English, when we order someone to "beat it" we mean "get out". Similarly in Arabic, when we order someone with the commend form of "DaRaBa", that is "iDRiB", we mean "get out".

How Can We Find The Appropriate Meaning

When we encounter a multi-meaning word, we select the proper meaning according to the context, forms, and common sense. For instance, if we had have translated "DaRaBa" in 13:17 as "beat" instead of "explain", the meaning would be ridiculous:
. . . God thus beats the truth and falsehood." (13:17)

Another example of mistranslation of "DaRaBa" can be found in the translation of 38:44. All the translations (except Dr. Khalifa's translation) inject a male-made story to justify their silly translation. Here is how Yusuf Ali translates the verse about Job:


"And take in the hand a little grass, and strike therewith: and break not (the oath)."

Yusuf Ali, in the footnote narrates the traditional story: "He (Job) must have said in his haste to the woman that he would beat her: he is asked now to correct her with only a wisp of grass, to show that he was gentle and humble as well as patient and constant."

However, without injecting this story, we can translate it as the following:


"Now, you shall travel the land to fulfill your pledge (that is to deliver the message)." We found him steadfast. What a good servant! He was a submitter. (38:44)

Let's turn back to 4:34

Additionally, the word "Nushuz" which is generally translated as "opposition" has another meaning which can be translated as degrees of disloyalty ranging from flirtation to sexual liaison. If we study 4:34 carefully we will find a clue that leads us to translate that word as "flirting or cheating" or "extramarital affair" (Any word or words that reflect the range of disloyalty in marriage). The clue is the phrase before "Nushuz" as reads: ". . . and observe God's commandments, even when alone in their privacy." This phrase emphasizes the importance of loyalty in marriage life.

Furthermore, the same word "Nushuz" is used in 4:128, but it is used to describe the misbehavior of husbands not wives as was in 4:34. So, the traditional translation of "Nushuz", that is, "opposition" will not fit here. In vertical relations, "opposition" cannot be a double-edged behavior. So, translators try to avoid this contradiction by ascribing just the opposite meaning of "opposition", i.e., "oppression" in verse 4:128. However, the meaning of "Nushuz" as "disloyalty" is appropriate for both cases described in 4:34 and 4:128.

A Coherent Understanding

When we read 4:34 we should not understand "idribuhunne" as "beat those women". We must remember that this word has many meanings. God gives us three ways of dealing with extra-marital-affair. In the beginning stage of such misbehavior husband should start from giving advice. If it does not work and she goes further and commit a proven adultery, that time husband has the right to strike them out (4:34 & 65:1).

Let's present our suggestion for the translation of verse 4:34


"Men traditionally take care of women, since God has endowed each of them with certain qualities and men spend from their financial resources. The righteous women are obedient (to God) and during the absence (of their husband) they honor them according to God's commandment. As for those women whom you are experiencing a fear of disloyalty from, you shall first advice them, then (if they continue) you may desert them in bed, then you may strike them out. If they obey you then don't transgress against them. God is Most High, Supreme." (4:34).

Beating women who are cheating is not an ultimate solution; but "striking them out" from your house is the best solution. And it is fair too.

Avi
sista_amina

NEW ZEALAND
Posted - Friday, June 05, 2009  -  7:04 PM Reply with quote
Looks like Sister Avein's husband beats her a lot and have you accepted it dear sister?
avi2009

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, June 09, 2009  -  9:26 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Looks like Sister Avein's husband beats her a lot and have you accepted it dear sister?


if sister amina cheated her husband regarding this particular matter, then according to quranic rulings it must be accepted.

avi
dhubash

INDIA
Posted - Saturday, June 27, 2009  -  2:37 PM Reply with quote
quote:

It would be interesting to know how to prove the crime first and if the husband needs any witnesses for this crime.

Posted by raushan from UNITED ARAB EMIRATES- Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 9:31 AM
Study Quran carefully. You will have the answer otherwise……. never……
laloo

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, June 27, 2009  -  2:48 PM Reply with quote
quote:

I would request intelligent and knowledgable prople here to please tell us as what would be the punishment for a husband for the same crime(i.e.Nushooz)?

Posted by shahidas from UK- Posted - Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 11:21 PM

Study Quran carefully. You will have the answer otherwise……. never……
tilawat

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, July 01, 2009  -  12:52 AM Reply with quote
@raushan

You say:

“I would request intelligent and knowledgable prople here to please tell us as what would be the punishment for a husband for the same crime(i.e.Nushooz)?”

According to the Arab/Islamic culture husband is the head of the family as an institution. It is his responsibility to maintain the family and look after its welfare like a head of a state. Other members’ obligation, especially that of the wife, is only to be loyal and faithful to him. As a head of the institution he cannot, of course, be held rebellious (nashooz) against himself though it is he only in the family who is liable to be punished for dereliction of his duty under the law.
shehzads

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, July 01, 2009  -  2:31 AM Reply with quote
Tilawat I dont agree with you.we are not talking about arab culture here. we are talking about a civilized islamic system,where a man and woman are equally sharing and equally responsible.Therefore if man commits nashooz, he will loose his position of the head of the family and will deserve punishment by the elders of the two families or even the state. because the idea is to keep the discipline of the family, not to keep one above the other without any aim or purpose.

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