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oosman

USA
Topic initiated on Thursday, March 29, 2007  -  7:40 PM Reply with quote
What do you think of the Islamabad brothel issue?


I recently read this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6507205.stm

Bunch of mulas and mulanis kidnapped a woman who may have been running a brothel and made her repent her immoral actions; then they freed her and her family. Later the woman said she was made to confess under force.

What do you think of these mulas and mulanis? Is this 'spreading good and stopping evil'?

Also they want Islamic law enforced in the country. That is ok with me; but there are so many sects in Islam and so many interpretations; so whose version of Islam should be imposed? is it not better that we all live in harmony according to our own sect, schools and beliefs; rather than imposing what we think is Divine onto others?

Any comments?
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, March 30, 2007  -  5:20 AM Reply with quote
Well, I Just READ this story in Todays' newspapers & I'm Shocked. Moreover, I was HELPLESS to read that EVEN Mr. Qazi Husain Ahmed; Leader of a big Islamic Political Party Has No PROBLEM w it. Y Qazi sb & All people who think like him FORGET that a MUSLIM will be asked by GOD about Personal Matters ONLY for whom ONE is Responsible individually such as Prayers, Fasting etc.

About the Collective Matters my Responsibility is ONLY according to my Status. For Example I'm NOT Responsible & Answerable b4 GOD as an Individual to CUT the Hand of a Thief Even if he was stealing in MY home & I've Personally Caught him Red Handed. My SOLE Responsibility is to Hand him Over to the Respected Authorities that is Police in this Case.

It shud be absolutely Clear that this is NOT 'spreading good and stopping evil' or at least it's THE WORST possible WAY of doing a NOBLE cause JUST LIKE I go to STEAL money to HELP the poor.

What is the PROPER WAY of DOING SO? plz Go thru our NEWEST course "Preaching Islam". thanks

We've said our point of View in this Regard many times that LAW making Authority is ONLY one in the Country i.e. Our National Assembly. So they will Discuss upon ALL interpretations (obviously of SUNNI sects & NOT Shee'ah Sects) & then will either make ONE of them the LAW or May make Such a Law that will be a "Mixture" of ALL or EVEN Declare that in this & this Regard Court will decide According to the Sects of the Parties etc.
&
Plz v Carefuly Note that the DIVINE LAW is ONLY that we Get From the Holy Quran & the Holy Sunnah. All other are "Opinions" based on these two primary Sources & ONLY those shud follow an opinion that Seems to them is the Best/most suitable etc. among all.
khaledgr8

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, March 30, 2007  -  7:57 AM Reply with quote
The incident shows where our so called Islamic leaders making us to go. It is the obvious result of our ill investment on teaching and stereotype concept imposing to new generation.So one shouldn't need to have strange on it.

We can only struggle for good and pray from Almighty to prevent us these self-claimed indulgences.
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Friday, March 30, 2007  -  5:51 PM Reply with quote
http://www.dawn.com.pk/2007/03/30/top2.htm

She alleged that she had been victimised by the militant students because she did not belong to their sect and that during the confinement she and her family members had been asked to change their sect.

She denied the allegations levelled by the Lal Masjid management and some aides of hard-line ulema that she ran a brothel. “I have been living there for 30 years and have very good relations with my neighbours. If I was wrong, my neighbours would have kicked me out and lodged cases against me,” she said.

Describing her ordeal of more than 60 hours in detention, she said her daughter and daughter-in-law had been kept in separate rooms.

She alleged that before being presented to the media for the press conference she had been threatened that her family members could be killed if she said anything contrary to the written statement.

She said she and her family had been kept in illegal confinement for two and a half days.

She said the students of Madressah Hafsa had told her that they had forced the government to bow down twice recently -- once when they captured the government’s children’s library and then when they kidnapped her and her family members.

“They said that their demand for the release of former ISI official Khalid Khawaja and five other religious activities was not met, they would create more problems for the government,” she said. The released women are expected to be moved out of the city.
salmant

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, April 03, 2007  -  7:42 AM Reply with quote
I think the action taken by them is quite interesting, as it raises important questions on religion's interpretation, e.g.

What is the scope of 'spreading good and stopping evil'?

Does a small group of people claiming to spread good and stop evil, has the authority to take law in their hand?

What liberties can an individual enjoy in an Islamic society, and how much can the government, or the various groups in society, restrict his liberty by coercive action?

Does Islam allow civil disobedience by individuals in order to spread good and stop evil?

Regards,
Salman
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, April 03, 2007  -  8:31 AM Reply with quote
Ans.1 The scope of 'spreading good and stopping evil' is LIMITS of oneself.
Ans.2 No group, Regardless HOW SMALL it is OR HOW BIG it is & of WHATEVER claiming they are, has ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY to take LAW in their HANDS.
Ans.3 Under the LIMITS of GOD-GIVEN SHAREE'AH an individual can enjoy ALL POSSIBLE liberties in an Islamic society OR even in a NON-Islamic Society, and ONLY the government can Restrict the According to Sharee'ah OR Govt' Rules & Regulation other than it. & NO group of society is Allowed to restrict that liberty by ANY action.
Ans.4 Islam DOES NOT allow civil disobedience by individuals in ALL curcumstances. The Only Liberty a Muslam has is that He will NOT OBEY those Rules that are Against the Sharee'ah e.g. If Anyone; Parent. Teacher, Ruler etc. Order us NOT to OFFER our Prayers, Obviously we'll NOT obey it.

Hope it Helps a bit.
salmant

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, April 03, 2007  -  8:53 AM Reply with quote
Thank you Ibrahim,

Kindly also provide some supporting arguments from Quran & Sunnah to your answers.

Regarding Answer 3, you say only Government can restrict individual's liberty, according to Shariah or its own rules & regulations. What if, the Govt's interpretation of Shariah is different than that of Individual, for example, what if Govt thinks that females must be forced to wear Naqaab, and an individual female thinks it is not necessary to wear Naqaab according to her understanding of religion? Can the Govt still enforce what it deems to be correct?

You also say, "He will NOT OBEY those Rules that are Against the Sharee'ah" - again what if his interpretation and Govt's interpretation is different? - If we accept the rule, then what Jamia Hafsa students did, seems to be correct, they just didnt obey those rules which were against (their own interpretation of) the Sharee'ah?

Regards,
Salman
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Tuesday, April 03, 2007  -  9:39 AM Reply with quote
To force someone to do against his wish is intereference in the set up made for the test for man.

Using force in fact is a proof of being looser.

This incident is not strange and we have to see much worse than this in the future as for rule there is an output for every input given for processing a thought or material to a man or machine.
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Wednesday, April 04, 2007  -  8:00 AM Reply with quote
another angle
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/2007/04/070403_wusat_decoy_si.shtml
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, April 04, 2007  -  8:49 AM Reply with quote
quote:

another angle
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/2007/04/070403_wusat_decoy_si.shtml



This seems to be a logical story !
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Thursday, April 05, 2007  -  8:37 PM Reply with quote
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6530935.stm

Anti-madrassa protest in Pakistan

Hundreds of Pakistani human rights activists have staged a protest calling for action against a major madrassa, or religious school, in the capital.

Edited by: junaidj on Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:37 PM
salmant

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, April 06, 2007  -  8:37 AM Reply with quote
Now they are setting-up a "shariat" court at the Lal Masjid!

Pakistan's history has been full of institutional follies, now we have an attempt at creating a parrallel, illegitimate, judicial system, for the sake of "shariah"! God help us!

I wonder why our more reasonable scholars are silent at this incident?

Salman
uhmelas

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, April 06, 2007  -  5:06 PM Reply with quote
[4.59] O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you; then if you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and the Apostle, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.
tweety

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, April 06, 2007  -  11:24 PM Reply with quote
Actually the 'more reasonable' scholars are not silent. They have taken the 'more reasonable' path of educating the public; which, although is a gradual, time consuming and pain staking process, is in the long run going to be the most effective way of solving this issue. This website is a prime example of such efforts.
Why has Britain prevailed so much in the world today? It is simply because they started the process of educating themselves not two hundred years ago, but rather since 1500 BC. The fruits of this labour (namely the Renaissance) only became aparent post world war I. It took a good few centuries for the effects to sink in thoroughly. At least in the worldly aspects of education, which was originally their goal, they prevailed. We are lucky because Islam gives the insentive of BOTH; moral and material (within limits ofcourse).
salmant

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, April 07, 2007  -  8:22 AM Reply with quote
Thanks Uhmelas for a very relevant quote from Quran.

Tweety: I understand their reasonable path. My contention however is, why is it that we havent heard any statement from the more reasonable scholars condemning this act? Jamia Hafsa follows the Deoband School of thought on religion. So why the Deobandi scholars such as Maulana Taqi Usmani etc. silent on this? Being good scholars they are expected to say what is fair and just on this issue.
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, April 07, 2007  -  2:20 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Thanks Uhmelas for a very relevant quote from Quran.
Salmant,will you plz explain its relevancy .

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