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PAKISTAN
Topic initiated on Monday, August 02, 2004  -  12:27 PM Reply with quote
First Ever All-Women's Mosque in the Offing


A group of Muslims in Tamil Nadu is set to build the world's first women's-only mosque . See

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20040809&fname=Muslim+women+%28F%29&sid=1
abdullah099

USA
Posted - Monday, August 09, 2004  -  6:17 PM Reply with quote
Im not 100% sure but aren't Imams suppose to be males only? Correct me if I'm wrong please. I'd like to know.
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, August 10, 2004  -  8:53 AM Reply with quote
I think the condition of an Imam being male only is in the case where the people offering prayer behind the imam are male or both male & female.

If all the people offering prayer are female, then the Imam can be a female.

Again I am also not 100% sure but this is what I have heard from some scholor. If its wrong then I am sure that someone will correct me.

Edited by: atifrafi on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:55 AM
Jhangeer Hanif

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, August 10, 2004  -  11:47 AM Reply with quote

This is correct. It should however be appreciated that the above mentioned verdict of scholars is a matter of Fiqh, that is to say, it is based on the general understanding of the divine directives and the collective nature of the Muslim societies.

abdullah099

USA
Posted - Tuesday, August 10, 2004  -  5:27 PM Reply with quote
Yea, since there were never all female mosques during the time of the Prophet Muhammad S.A.W., we can't really be sure. But this mosque will bring a lot of good though. I want to see more women encouraged to learn the quran and teach it to others. In my life I have never met a female hafiz, but I've met tons of male ones. I myself am trying to memorize the entire quran inshallah.
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, August 11, 2004  -  6:31 AM Reply with quote
Brother Abdullah has pointed out one very interesting point that during the time of Prophet Muahammad (peace be upon him) there were no female mosques. So, can we say that it is an innovation in Islam. Does Islam allows such innovations?
Jhangeer Hanif

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, August 11, 2004  -  10:14 AM Reply with quote

I do not think that it is a good step to build a MOSQUE exclusively for females. As long as it is designated a formal mosque, I do not think I, for one, approve of it. Mosque is what lies at the center of Muslim worship; and obviously, an exclusive female mosque is not a adaptation, due to change in circumstances, of the mosque built by the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and his companions. It is a new step toward fragmentation and discrimination. In addition, one needs to know that the Holy Prophet (pbuh) has though allowed the Muslim ladies to come to mosques, he has explained that their home for the prayer are more suitable to discharge this responsibilty (Abu Da'ud, No. 576).

However, it is not Biddah. I'd like to know how do you define Biddah?

ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, August 11, 2004  -  12:30 PM Reply with quote
I would like to know that Does the builders/makers of this women mosque have any purpose other than Offering Prayers in Congrigation before them?
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Wednesday, August 11, 2004  -  12:55 PM Reply with quote
If it gives an opportunity to women to get together to talk of God, to be active in furthering Islamic research especially on their own issues, which they would like to sort out themselves than being patronized by the beards, if it gives them a platform to raise their voice even more vehemently against widespread domestic abuse, then I fully endorse this mosque.

Allow me to underscore portions of the following link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3429695.stm

The shy women tell in low voices stories of how they have been divorced, abandoned and mistreated by their husbands

"Would having a place of worship of your own help?.....

The women nod in unison.

"You don't realise how helpless women are. We have no fallback, no opportunities to decide our fates. Our mosque will show the way," she says.


Now obviously going by democratic principles, if that is what they want then that is how things should be.

This is what I have had always in mind in the discussion on Hijab. Let them chart their own path.

As for discrimination, that already exists in conservative societies. Women are lectured to stay at arms' length from men in all occupations starting right from school.

As for fragmentation, there can be no bigger divide than the Sunni Shia or the Muslim Ahmadi divide.

Finally, whatever the context of the Abu Daud Hadith, the general trend for Arab women has always been that of going to mosques.

After all if they can tend to warriors on battle fields, then going to mosques should be a non-issue.

Edited by: junaidj on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:00 PM
abdullah099

USA
Posted - Wednesday, August 11, 2004  -  11:41 PM Reply with quote
"If it gives an opportunity to women to get together to talk of God, to be active in furthering Islamic research especially on their own issues, which they would like to sort out themselves than being patronized by the beards, if it gives them a platform to raise their voice even more vehemently against widespread domestic abuse, then I fully endorse this mosque."

I don't agree. Almost all mosques have programs for both males and females which take place during the week. Just because there happens to be both males and females going to the same mosque doesn't mean the females don't get their own special time and place to learn about Islam and seek help in whatever problems their going through. Umar bin Khattab (RA) the second Caliph of Islam started the practice of seperating men and women in the mosque so that they can't see each other. Now that practice is common throughout the Muslim world. Men have their own area and women have their own area. There is no need for any more seperation after this. And let me pose another question for you. If the mosque is run by females and only females attend. What happens if there are unbeleving men and women who harass the women when they are entering and leaving the mosque? Who is going to be there to protect our sisters. This is not something which is a farfetched idea. Ever since 9/11 there have been attacks on Muslims throughout the western world. This is something which I don't agree against, and yes it is an innovation to the religion.
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Thursday, August 12, 2004  -  1:59 AM Reply with quote
>>There is no need for any more seperation after this.

It was decided unanimously by the Tamil Nad women. What do you want to do, create hurdles in their demand for the mosque?

Also, since they are already separate, does it really make a difference if they get together on their own.

If they can have separate schools and colleges, maternity hospitals, et al. then why not mosques?

>>What happens if there are unbeleving men and women who harass the women when they are entering and leaving the mosque?

Even before that who is protecting them against believing men in the first place? Many Tamil Nad women complain that the Jamaah rules against them. Please read the attached link.

Also I think they are well protected in All Women Banks, Schools for girls etc., then why this security issue just on the mosque?

>>Ever since 9/11 there have been attacks on Muslims throughout the western world.

I think this is Tamil Nad. Even then I suppose, since they decided upon the mosque they would have considered many factors before this decision. Let us not insult their intelligence now.

>>This is something which I don't agree against, and yes it is an innovation to the religion.

No, it is not.

Edited by: junaidj on Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:00 AM
abdullah099

USA
Posted - Thursday, August 12, 2004  -  4:17 AM Reply with quote
Yes I read that article you posted a link to. They explicitly state that the only reason they want to build the mosque is to air their greivances about their husbands and the judicial system. Mosques should only be built for people to worship Allah s.w.t. in. But all they want to do is gather around and talk about their husbands behind their back, airing out their dirty laundry. This is not good, as family problems should not be disclosed to the public. The only time it is permissible to disclose your family issues is in a court or some other type of tribunal. But not gathering around with all the women in the neighborhood and saying these things which are wrong. How would you view it if the situation was the other way around. Men gathering in a mosque to discuss their dislike for their wives. It sounds ridiculous right? A husband should keep his wife's secrets and a wife should keep his secrets. If he abuses her then she can go to a court and divorce him, end of story. These women are just looking for any excuse to complain and thats not right. Islamic courts are not descriminating against women because they go by the laws of Allah s.w.t. written in the Quran. Most of these women probably don't know all of these laws or they don't understand them fully, so they take that as descrimination when a verdict is made.
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Thursday, August 12, 2004  -  2:06 PM Reply with quote
let us quote from the article for each of your statements.

>>They explicitly state that the only reason they want to build the mosque is to air their greivances about their husbands and the judicial system.

"We want our space to meet, talk, discuss our grievances and pray. We want to have a say in community rulings," Sharifa told BBC News Online.

>>But all they want to do is gather around and talk about their husbands behind their back, airing out their dirty laundry.

How do you know that sitting in your lovely confines of the U.S.? And based on what facts? Is it ethically and morally right on your part to speculate?

>>If he abuses her then she can go to a court and divorce him, end of story.

Badar Sayed agrees that the "male-dominated jamats" are often biased in rulings that affect women.

"Women are oppressed. The jamat does rule against them most of the time," she says.

>>These women are just looking for any excuse to complain and thats not right.

How do you know that?

>>Islamic courts are not descriminating against women because they go by the laws of Allah s.w.t. written in the Quran.

Have you forgotten the two stoning cases in Sudan? The men went fooling around to leave the two women to face potential stoning.

>>Most of these women probably don't know all of these laws or they don't understand them fully, so they take that as descrimination when a verdict is made.

How do you know that?

I suggest you choose your words appropriately especially when in the mainstream US public.

Questions:

Rajitha Begum, 37, whose husband abandoned her, says a mosque would help women who have "nobody to go to".

1) If you do not want this mosque built, will you take the responsibility to help out women in this position?

2) Have you ever written a piece of condemnation against widespread domestic absue, triple divorce, acid spillings etc.? Have you taken to task the law makers for not providing institutions to deter such rampant violations?

If you have not, then I suggest you start doing something, before other women in the Muslim world demand a mosque of their own.

3)You had in one of your earlier posts written:

>>But this mosque will bring a lot of good though. I want to see more women encouraged to learn the quran and teach it to others.

(??)

Edited by: junaidj on Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:53 PM
abdullah099

USA
Posted - Thursday, August 12, 2004  -  6:01 PM Reply with quote
Yes I wrote that in my earlier post, which is before I read the actual article. Now I understand what their building this mosque for. And in the case of the 2 sudanese women, just cause your husbands gone doesn't give you the right to commit illegal acts of adultery. If I were in their place I would have gone to a court and tried to divorce them, then legally marry again.
abdullah099

USA
Posted - Thursday, August 12, 2004  -  6:01 PM Reply with quote
Yes I wrote that in my earlier post, which is before I read the actual article. Now I understand what their building this mosque for. And in the case of the 2 sudanese women, just cause your husbands gone doesn't give you the right to commit illegal acts of adultery. If I were in their place I would have gone to a court and tried to divorce them, then legally marry again.
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, August 12, 2004  -  6:01 PM Reply with quote
Assalam o Alaikum

We have many points to criticise about the mosque mentioned by others users here but one very simple question is

We (men), specially here in the subcontinent & middle east, why don't we allow women to come to mosques. Now most of u will say that who has stopped, so my dear brothers go and ask the Maulvi, who is considered as the only source of Islam to more than 80% of the population. They never encourage ladies to come to mosques. We know that there were no female mosques at the time of Prophet (sws) but the point is, at that time nobody discourages women going to mosques. Now a days, its a common scene here that womens are allowed in the mosques only for the Eid prayer and even that is also at very few places.

So, considering this situation, if some women are couraged enough to take an initiative I think we should praise them. Atleast this way these women's will start going to mosques and we (men) will accept it as well because the men of this part of the world are not ready to give these women the status Islam has given to them.

We should accept that this is the attitude of men which has forced these women to build a mosque specially for them & if we want to criticise those women, we have to change ourselves first and then we can ask the ladies to join other men in the mosques and instead of building a seperate mosque.

Another important point which I want to discuss is that a mosque is only for prayers ??? Now a days people mostly put a lock on the mosque gate right after a prayer and it is locked until next prayer. Do you think that the purpose of the mosque is fulfilled ?

Well I don't think so. In my opinion a mosque should be more a community centre where people can meet each other and discuss there problem. Why Islam has encouraged the muslims to pray in (Jama't) Congregation? The simple answer is that its a way of meeting people and they will be well informed about there other muslim brothers.

In the Caliphate of Hazrat Omer (rt), Masjid e Nabwi was the headquarter of the state. That was not used for prayers only and we should also realise the purpose of the mosques.

I hope that we all should accept that this step is acceptable specially in the circumstances that we have here.

ALLAH Hafiz

Edited by: atifrafi on Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:02 PM

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