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atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, August 09, 2004  -  2:18 PM Reply with quote
Dear Zeenaeem,

You have given so many arguments that I cannot even read them all plus I don't want to start a lot of new discussions thats y I am not going to post a very long message by answering each one of them as u r simply playing with words as I said that Marriage is no sureity that a man will not do adultery and u said that
"Because of married people committing adultery, do you assume that it is better to commit adultery being unmarried"

I can't see these words in my post. Its just that u r assuming things urself and just playing with words and trying to prove your point with only thing : "To write a lenghty message" .

I have couple of questions only, please explain these questions only:

1. In the verse 24:33, it is written that : "And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His Bounty…” (Surah An-Nur, Chapter-24, Verse-33)

If it is advised that if u don't have means to marry then how can be a Fardh.

2. You did not talked about the verse 4:25

3. You did not gave any answer about the Fatwa.

Most Important: The thing which are obligatory, you don't need any "Fatwa" about those. For example :

You don't need any fatwa about Salaah, Fasting, Hajj or other obligatory things. Any FATWA is only issued about an issue on which Quran and Sunnah has no clear directive.

The Hadith which u quoted, u r focusing on one last line only. U should read the complete hadith carefully. it clearly states that those 3 persons considered there worship insufficient because they were trying to comptete to the Prophet (peace be upon him) OR in other words u can say that they were trying to do as much worship as the prophet and to do that ( trying to compete / trying to worship as much as the prophet ) they were crossing the limits set by the ALmighty. There was no intention that "I'll not marry because I don't have means".

Simply He was trying to exceed the limits set by the Almighty ALLAH and for that Prophet (peace be upon him) stopped him doing so.

ALLAH Hafiz
Zeenaeem

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Tuesday, August 10, 2004  -  8:58 AM Reply with quote
Dear Atifrafi

Your quote :
quote:

“You have given so many arguments that I cannot even read them all plus I don't want to start a lot of new discussions thats y I am not going to post a very long message by answering each one of them as u r simply playing with words as I said that Marriage is no sureity that a man will not do adultery and u said that
"Because of married people committing adultery, do you assume that it is better to commit adultery being unmarried"
Unquote

Please read my arguments before commenting on them. Without reading you cannot do justice to yourself. You are missing so many points to ponder.

If you think that I am playing with words, you can point out. You are the one who are trying to insert your own words, such as ‘permission’ in the translated verses. I have already pointed out. If you did not read, I can’t help.

You can assume things saying, “Marriage is no surety that a man will not do adultery.” Why cannot I assume saying that you too assume that “it is better to commit adultery being unmarried ?” I have several times written to you saying, a sin committed in any state is a sin and the sinner is responsible for his sin. But there are fewer chances that a married person commits adultery. In other words, adultery is committed mostly by unmarried persons.


Your quote:
quote:

“I have couple of questions only, please explain these questions only:

1. In the verse 24:33, it is written that : "And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His Bounty…” (Surah An-Nur, Chapter-24, Verse-33)

If it is advised that if u don't have means to marry then how can be a Fardh.

2. You did not talked about the verse 4:25

3. You did not gave any answer about the Fatwa.
Unquote

The marriage is always Fard. If you do not have means, it does not mean that till death you will not have means. Once you get means, then you have to marry. If you die having no means to marry till your death, and also without committing any sin of fornication, and were fasting, practicing self-restraint, you will surely be rewarded for all the pains you took in this life. Once you had means to marry, but remained unmarried wantonly and died, you are surely answerable to Allah, because you had not obeyed Allah’s command and also defaulter of the Hadees of Prophet (peace be upon him).

1. Did you read verse 24:32 ? It will not be possible for you to understand the verse 24:33 unless you understand and agree with Verse-24:32 first, where it has clearly been commanded to all able persons to get married, even if they are poor. Allah says, He will enrich them out of His bounties. I will give the Tafsir (Tafsir Ibn Khatir) for you to understand fully. If you do not read, it is your problem. From my side, I am taking much time to find out things for you so that you can understand better.

2. I have already posted Tafsir for the verse 4:25, giving full explanation. You did not read it. The Tafsir I give below also mentions something about 4:25. If you need to be enlightened, then go back and read it. It is up to you.

3. I have given answer to the Fatwa, saying that the Fatwa is only meant for you, not for me, because I have already obeyed the Commands of Allah.

Your quote
quote:

“Most Important: The thing which are obligatory, you don't need any "Fatwa" about those. For example :

You don't need any fatwa about Salaah, Fasting, Hajj or other obligatory things. Any FATWA is only issued about an issue on which Quran and Sunnah has no clear directive.
Unquote

To a person who does not want to accept the truth and argues on things saying they are not obligatory, or to a person with scanty knowledge about something Fatwa is necessary.

You feel that you do not need Fatwa on Salah, Fasting, Hajj etc. because you accepted them, as they are. There are people who argue even in these things and millions of Fatwas by thousands of Muftis have been issued in these regards. We do not need such fatwas because we know, what is Salah, what is Fast, what is Hajj. We do not argue. But for those who argue, Fatwa is needed. Since you do not accept marriage as obligatory matter, you needed Fatwa. There are people who say 5-times Salah is not mentioned in Al-Qur’aan. There are people who argue for not going to Hajj taking several pretexts and excuses. Hence they seek after Fatwas or Fatwas are issued to convince them.

Do not try to argue with the Hadees. I fully agree with the Hadess and understood as it was. It is clear from the Hadees that one who does not get married is not from the Ummah of the Prophet (peace be upon him), because the people who came to him were able persons to marry. Here the question is regarding ‘Rahbaniya’ (Asceticism and Monasticism) and not “poverty” (having no means) as you assumed.

Now read carefully the Tafsir Ibn Khatir, I have copied for you as it was, on Chapter-24, Verses-32 & 33 :

Tafsir By Ibn Khatir : (Please note that there is no playing with words, here)

The Command to marry

These clear Ayat include a group of unambiguous rulings and firm commands.

[وَأَنْكِحُواْ الأَيَـمَى مِنْكُمْ]

(And marry those among you who are single (Al-Ayama)....) This is a command to marry. The Prophet said:

«يَا مَعْشَرَ الشَّبَابِ، مَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ مِنْكُمُ الْبَاءَةَ فَلْيَتَزَوَّجْ، فَإِنَّهُ أَغَضُّ لِلْبَصَرِ وَأَحْصَنُ لِلْفَرْجِ، وَمَنْ لَمْ يَسْتَطِعْ فَعَلَيْهِ بِالصَّوْمِ فَإِنَّهُ لَهُ وِجَاءٌ»


(O young men, whoever among you can afford to get married, let him marry, for it is more effective in lowering the gaze and protecting the private parts. Whoever cannot do that, then let him fast, for it is a protection for him.) This was recorded in the Two Sahihs from the Hadith of Ibn Mas`ud. In the Sunan, it was recorded from more than one person that the Messenger of Allah said:

«تَزَوَّجُوا تَوَالَدُوا تَنَاسَلُوا فَإِنِّي مُبَاهٍ بِكُمُ الْأُمَمَ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ»

(Marry and have children, for I will be proud of you before the nations on the Day of Resurrection.) The word Al-Ayama, the plural form of Ayyim, is used to describe a woman who has no husband and a man who has no wife, regardless of whether they have been married and then separated, or have never been married at all. Al-Jawhari reported this from the scholars of the (Arabic) language, and the word is applied to men and women alike.

[إِن يَكُونُواْ فُقَرَآءَ يُغْنِهِمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ]

(If they be poor, Allah will enrich them out of His bounty.) `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported from Ibn `Abbas: "Allah encouraged them to get married, commanded both free men and servants to get married, and He promised to enrich them.''

[إِن يَكُونُواْ فُقَرَآءَ يُغْنِهِمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ]


(If they be poor, Allah will enrich them out of His bounty.) It was recorded that Ibn Mas`ud said: "Seek the richness through marriage, for Allah says:

[إِن يَكُونُواْ فُقَرَآءَ يُغْنِهِمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ]

(If they be poor, Allah will enrich them out of His bounty.)'' This was recorded by Ibn Jarir. Al-Baghawi also recorded something similar from `Umar. It was reported from Al-Layth from Muhammad bin `Ajlan from Sa`id Al-Maqburi from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah said:

«ثَلَاثَةٌ حَقٌّ عَلَى اللهِ عَوْنُهُمْ: النَّاكِحُ يُرِيدُ الْعَفَافَ، وَالْمُكَاتَبُ يُرِيدُ الْأَدَاءَ، وَالْغَازِي فِي سَبِيلِ اللهِ»


(There are three whom it is a right upon Allah to help: one who gets married seeking chastity; a slave who makes a contract with his master with the aim of buying his freedom; and one who fights for the sake of Allah.) This was recorded by Imam Ahmad, At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasa'i and Ibn Majah. The Prophet performed the marriage of a man who owned nothing but his waist wrap, and could not even buy a ring made of iron, but he still married him to that woman, making the Mahr his promise to teach her whatever he knew of the Qur'an. And it is known from the generosity and kindness of Allah that He provided him with whatever was sufficient for her and for him.


The Command to keep Oneself Chaste if One is not able to get married
Allah's saying:


[وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لاَ يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحاً حَتَّى يُغْنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ]

(And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His bounty.) This is a command from Allah to those who do not have the means to get married: they are to keep themselves chaste and avoid unlawful things, as the Prophet said:

«يَا مَعْشَرَ الشَّبَابِ مَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ مِنْكُمُ الْبَاءَةَ فَلْيَتَزَوَّجْ فَإِنَّهُ أَغَضُّ لِلْبَصَرِ وَأَحْصَنُ لِلْفَرْجِ، وَمَنْ لَمْ يَسْتَطِعْ فَعَلَيْهِ بِالصَّوْمِ فَإِنَّهُ لَهُ وِجَاءٌ»


(O young men, whoever among you can afford to get married, let him marry, for it is more effective in lowering the gaze and protecting the private parts. Whoever cannot do that, then let him fast, for it is a protection for him.) This Ayah is general in meaning, and the Ayah in Surat An-Nisa' is more specific, where Allah says:

[وَمَن لَّمْ يَسْتَطِعْ مِنكُمْ طَوْلاً أَن يَنكِحَ الْمُحْصَنَـتِ]


(And whoever of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women)until His statement;

[وَأَن تَصْبِرُواْ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ]

(but it is better for you that you practise self-restraint) [4:25] meaning, it is better for you to be patient and refrain from marrying slave-girl, because any child that is born will also be a slave.

[وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ]

(and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful) [4:25].

[وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لاَ يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحاً]

(And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste,) `Ikrimah said, "This refers to a man who sees a woman and it is as if he feels desire; if he has a wife then let him go to her and fulfill his desire with her, and if he does not have a wife, then let him ponder the kingdom of heaven and earth until Allah grants him means of livelihood.''

Peace & Believed Smiles

Zeenaeem
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, August 10, 2004  -  10:09 AM Reply with quote
Assalam o Alaikum

Dear Zeenaeem, atleasr for me it is impossible to argue with you because you want to enforce what "you" think is right. You are not even trying to understand what other persons are saying.

I know that you will not accept this but just for other readers I am giving an example. You said :

"Do not try to argue with the Hadees. I fully agree with the Hadess and understood as it was"

See, u r not even willing to answer something logically, u have assumed that "YOU" are always right and u don't want to listen other people's reasoning so its totally useless and waste of time and efforts to argue with you.

About the verse 24:32, i have read that verse and I have mentioned the exact next verse in which it is wriiten that if u don't have financial means u should not marry. Both the verses are linkes and u have to read both not only first.

Same is the case with the Hadith, you are stuck with the last line and even not willing to listen what another person is saying.

In the verse 4:25 it is clearly written that its better that u don't marry, if u don't have means. I can't understand how u can't understand this clear verse, its just that u don't want to and u believe that you r right and all other are dumb people who doesn't know anything about Islam.

You know u consider urself better just because of the reason that u r Arabic, clearly contradicting the rules defined by the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him).

Just to end this useless discussion, i accept all what u have said. I accept that "you r right".

May ALLAH guide us all to the right path. Amin

Edited by: atifrafi on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:09 AM
Kaliym

USA
Posted - Tuesday, August 10, 2004  -  6:14 PM Reply with quote
Salaams,

I am relatively new to this site. This is the first discussion I have read. I have to agree with Zeenaeem for the most part. I am in the process of learning about "innovation" and it's dangers. Zeenaeem, to me, gives clear proofs of his points about marriage, whereas Atifrari seems only to speak of "opinion". As for someone thinking that they are better than someone else because of where they come from, I recently read a Hadith where the Prophet(peace and blessings be upon him) said "if you knew what I knew you would laugh less and cry more". This is obviously not the exact wording of the Hadith but something to that effect.

Peace and Blessings to all. I look forward to reading many more discussions.
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, August 10, 2004  -  7:04 PM Reply with quote
Salaams,

Dear Brother Kaliym,

First of all i would suggest that if you are new here you should not read this topic because it lacks some true spirits. I am not saying that brother Zeenaeem or anyone is talking against Islam, what i mean to say is there are some rules or u can say guidelines which one should follow while discussing some point.... here that spirit is lacking a lot also from my side.

I am here just to eloborate my point. I am not asking from you or anybody else that you have to agree with me. Its just that you wrote that I only speak of "opinin". I would suggest you to read my messages again. I started with an "opinion" and that is just my style of writing, but later i gave many prooves. Just for your reference I am quoting those again:

1. First of all we talked about the verse 25:54. This verse states that ALLAH established relationship of marriage. I can't see any order in this verse. Its simple narration.

Brother Zeenaeem's main point is that marriage can save one from many sins. U can read his posts for reference.

Now, what does that means.... if u fast everyday and keep on praying whole night.... that also saves u from all the sins, even after marrying there are chances of sins like adultery but the way I have told to u totally eradicate any chance of any sin. So why don't u do that?

About Monasticism and innovation. i really don't want to start new discussion here and i tried to avoid that discussion. Just for your reference I am quoting one Hadith, please explain that:

[[From Bukhari]] 3.227: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prayed at night the whole month of Ramadan out of sincere Faith and hoping for a reward from Allah, then all his previous sins will be forgiven." Ibn Shihab (a sub-narrator) said, "Allah's Apostle died and the people continued observing that (i.e. Nawafil offered individually, not in congregation), and it remained as it was during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and in the early days of `Umar's Caliphate."
`Abdur Rahman bin `Abdul Qari said, "I went out in the company of `Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him.
So, `Umar said, 'In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka`b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, `Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid`a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night."

Can u please explain y the words "What an Excellent Bid`a (i.e. innovation in religion)" are used here.

after that the point of discussion was the verse, chapter 4 verse 3, “And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphangirls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the salves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice"

Please note that it starts with the words "if u fear ...... " How that can be a fixed order.



Then brother Zeenaeem quoted the verse from Chapter 4 verse 25. He quoted that :

Please read Chapter-4, Verse-25 : “And whoever of you have not the means wherewith to wed free, believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those (captives and slaves) whom your right hands possess, and Allah has full knowledge about your Faith, you are one from another. Wed them with the permission of their own folk (guardians, Auliya’ or masters) and give them their Mahr according to what is reasonable; they (the above said captive and slave-girls) should be chaste, not adulterious, nor taking boy-friends…..”

I AM AFRAID THAT BROTHER ZEENAEEM DID NOT QUOTED THE COMPLETE VERSE OF THE QURAAN. wHAT YOU WOULD SAY ABOUT THAT. Complete translation of the verse is :


004.025 If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Al-Qur'an, 004.025 (An-Nisa [Women])



It is very clearly written that if person don't have means then they can marry to slave girls and this is for those who fear sin; "but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint"

Please note the words "but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint" if ALLAH Almighty Himself saying that if u don't have means to marry believing women then its better to practice self-restraint.

Brother Zeenaeem did not quoted the complete verse and just took the part of the verse which suited his point of view. What would you say about this act ?

He also describes some "abnormal conditions" but did not provide any proof for that, if u find anyone please do tell me.


He has said so many times that I don't know arabic, I agree, but why he does not uses word "u must marry" while translating "Fankihu". Actually no one has translated like that because it doesn't means that one must marry. Its just his personal thought and nothing more than that.

May be you are also thinking that i am againt marriage, like brother Zeenaeem. I just wanted to clear that I am writing these messages to say that if anything is not made obligatory by the ALLAH, we can't make it by ourself. I also agree that ALLAH has urged people to marry and without any reason one should marry but still that is not obligatory and we can't make something obligatory by ourselves as this would be the "innovation" and to consider any innovation "Compulsory" is not allowed in Islam.

I have read his complete posts and tried to summarize here, another important point of discussion is the Fatwa posted by brother murada001. I have discussed this fatwa in detail, u can read my posts for that. Here I would only say that under some circumstances in that Fatwa as well it is written that marriage becomes HARAAM.

Its not only my point of view but the respected scholor also thinks same.

I am writing all these just to clear my point, i m not forcing anyone that u must agree to my point. If you think that brother Zeenaeem has provided more reliable proofs u must agree with his thought, just make one thing clear that I AM NOT OPPOSING MARRIAGE BUT ONLY DISCUSSING THAT IS IT OBLIGATORY ( FARDH ) OR NOT, which as far as i have understood and heard from some scholors is not obligatory.
Kaliym

USA
Posted - Wednesday, August 11, 2004  -  2:43 AM Reply with quote
Salaams,

Thank you for your response Atifrafi. I honestly did not read the full length of you and Zee's discussion. I think that you do have very valid points( and my wife agrees). I am here basically to learn so please provide me with all the Hadiths and Suras that you know of. I don't interact much with people of other countries here so reading the views of other muslims is very refreshing for me. I have been blessed with a thirst for knowledge and I am very excited about this site.

Peace and Blessings....
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, August 11, 2004  -  6:00 AM Reply with quote
Salaam

Dear Brother Kaliym,
Thanks for reading my post completely. Its glad to see that u r here to learn about Islam and I'll try to tell each and everything I know but the problem is that I am also a very young student, young in a sense that I am very new and don't have much knowledge about so many things but I believe that here you will find many people who can fulfill your thirst of knowledge.

by the way, i think that your opinion is changed because your wife is saying so just joking


Waslaam

Edited by: atifrafi on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 AM
Zeenaeem

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Wednesday, August 11, 2004  -  10:03 AM Reply with quote
Dear Atifrafi

It is now very clear that you have never read my replies fully. Whatever you raised are all anwered in detail.

You may agree to disagree at this moment, but sometime in your life, you will think that whatever view you hold now was not correct. In my last two or three posts, I have quoted Tafsir of Ibn Kathir to give you the elaborated meaning and situation of the revelation of verses.

You did not read them. If you had read them, there would not be any need to disagree. If you disagree with them, please note that you are not disagreeing with the verses of Al-Qur'aan. Your matter is with Allah, because you are disagreeing with His Commands. Pointing out was my duty. Which I have done. You have got a free-will given by Allah, to reject or accept.

For your information you can refer all the verses I have quoted, in Tafsir Ibn Kathir. Take you time to visit WWW.Tafsir.com and click Tafsir Ibn Kathir.


Peace & Explained Smiles

Zeenaeem
Zeenaeem

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Wednesday, August 11, 2004  -  12:53 PM Reply with quote
Dear Kaliym

Welcome to this site and thanks a lot for your comments.

There is a lot of material and arguments available in this thread, which you can conveniently go through, say one page a day, at least. You can find that all the questions of Atifrafi were dealt with and answered with appropriate Divine Commands and supporting Ahadeeth. (plural of hadeeth or hadees)

After having read everything, you can opine.

I am directly reading and referring Al-Qur'aan and its Tafsir by ibn Khatir, whereas Atifrafi is using guidance of some scholar or someone, without referring to the original Qur'aan. Hence the difficulty in understanding the Divine Law.

Level of analytical power differs person to person. The more one reads the more he learns. I am sure, after a certain period, Atifrafi will get the enlightenment to understand, accept and obey the commands of Allah.

I just pray for right guidance, and right path - Siraath Al-Mustaqeem.

Should you need to bring any point, most welcome. I will do utmost possible to clarify things, and also learn new things from you.

Peace & Welcoming Smiles

Zeenaeem
Malix

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Wednesday, August 11, 2004  -  11:57 PM Reply with quote
SALAM
JAZAKALLAH 4 all da inputs so far

as DR HINA pointd out dat my net wasnt wrkin and da timin culdnt b prfct i was away on holidays aswell
so didnt get time 2 read all da argmnts put 4wrd

INSHALLAH 2mrowo mrnin ill get up n read all da details as i m still abit trd


JAZAKALLAH 1s again
SALAM
surgeonakhlaq

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, October 02, 2004  -  1:42 AM Reply with quote
Assalamu’alaikum brothers and sisters,

Marriage is a Sunnat and almost all those Sunnah, which are directly related to the ways of life, and the manners of the society are compulsory whether ordered clearly or not because life of the Holy Prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a best example for the mankind. Being Muslims, these Sunnah need always to be practiced that is mandatory after saying Muhammad-ur-Rasool-Allah provided that there is no clear-cut exemption according to the teachings of Islam.
I also want to share my knowledge on the multiple marriages.
Our religion, Islam is based not 100% on the nature but very close to the nature. For example the nature compels to eat till no further capacity of the stomach but Islam interferes to stop eating earlier. Similarly there are many other examples. Man's nature is similar to that of other vertebrates. Change of this nature that is not impossible, in every aspect of life includes the man in the category of ASHRAFUL-MAKHLUQAT (best of the creatures) otherwise SUMMUN, BUKMUN, UMYUN (Deaf, Dumb, Blind).
So far as normal physiological sexual frequency and gratification is concerned, only one healthy wife is more than enough otherwise it is a perverted sex. It can never be buttressed with Islam. Allah does not like those who cross the limits (Al-Quran- different sites). This is, in general a clear order to interfere the limits of natural acts.
I do not favour those men who do more than one marriages without proper indications. They think that these are never contraindicated. According to Holy Quran (Al-Nisa-3) it is crystal clear to understand that two, three or four marriages are only and only indicated to support the orphan girls or their mothers, that is again conditioned to deal with them equally otherwise only one. In case of orphan boys, the marriage with their mothers is allowed similarly. It must be remembered that this permission is never for the sex for which as already mentioned only one healthy wife is enough. People do not read the full text of Holy Quran. They choose the sentences of their own choice to support their false statement. This is same as in Holy Quran (Al-Nisa-43) “ Don’t be near the prayer when you are in the state of narcosis” and if someone adapts only first part of the sentence then one is exempted forever from offering prayers. This is not so. Moreover it is not essential that every order by Allah is liked by Him e.g. divorce is allowed but is hateful of Him. Similarly again, Almighty Allah would dislike multiple marriages (except some special cases) although allowed in certain circumstances. It is an injustice or inhuman behaviour to give rights to someone at the cost of killing those of the others, which is not unusual after the subsequent marriages.
Most of the men do the marriages only for sexual enjoyment. Every body can know that if someone can not give rights to the first wife, then how it is possible that one will be an ideal for the second one? His nature will compel him to do a third one. He may continue this play till its drop scene when he stands nowhere. I label these men as psychopaths as their only intention is to enjoy the abnormal sex. This is one of the causes of nuisance in the society and any act that causes nuisance in the society is categorised as a major sin.
According to me, without proper indication the relationships after the second marriage (even with Nikah) are illegal because this bilateral consent is absolutely against the Islamic principles and both should be sentenced to the punishment as mentioned in Surat Nur (No.24) of Holy Quran so that no one would have a courage to make the daughters of Hawwa rolling stones.
Someone might say “which clay I am made up of” This is same as yours or others. Mind please, the victims are mothers, sisters and daughters. They are not strong members of the society in most parts of the world. Their innocence must not be exploited otherwise it is a cruelty, which is always cursed by Allah Almighty.
Medical and social aspects of the multiple marriages
· Enlargement of the prostate gland (A gland present only in males just below the urinary bladder) starts when hair start to become grey with the age. Many studies done over the years suggest that the prostatic enlargement occurs more often among married than the single men. So it is obvious that it may be directly related to the sexual activity that is more in those who have multiple wives. Enlargement of the prostate gland leads to retention of the urine, infections and stones formation, renal/kidney failure and cancerous changes etc.
· Most of the men having multiple wives take the support of some drugs for sexual enhancement. Almost all these drugs cause high blood pressure and diabetes mellitus leading to heart attack, heart failure, renal/kidney failure, visual disturbances, paralysis, non-healing ulcers resulting in different types of amputations and many other serious complications.
· Anxiety and depression, the extreme may lead to suicide.
· If the man is a carrier of some diseases, all the wives are equally vulnerable.
· The commonest social problem is unusual disobedience by the children, most probably due to distribution of the heritage between the multiple partners.
· The causes of multiple marriages other than said in Quran and abnormal sexual enjoyment are, getting property of the next wife, to show oneself a husband of multiple wives and sometimes to give mental torture to the first wife in reaction to her teasing attitude to him. Therefore the women must be very much careful and the first wife must do her best to create a powerful mutual understanding throughout their lives to avoid her husband to deviate. This can be done by penetrating deeply into the psychology of the husband and adapting herself according to him, if feasible. I think this is the only or one of the powerful preventive measures.
If the multiple marriages are according to the teachings of Islam, I believe that one will be under the umbrella of blessings of Almighty Allah and will enjoy the peace physically, mentally, socially, economically as well as spiritually. May Allah help us to do what He wants? Aamen!
Allah Hafiz!
Dr. Akhlaq
RENEE

USA
Posted - Saturday, October 02, 2004  -  7:13 PM Reply with quote
with the name of allah
alsalam alkum

i'm a revert to islam and maybe what i have to say, may give some insight to the debate. what i see lacking, is what brought me to islam, and that is the word, "choice"! my understaning of islam, is all about, ones own chosing.
i can only chose for myself what i think is best for me. and this is a right given to me from allah. allah has given mankind, "free choice". surah 2:256 let there be no compulsion in religion: truth stands out clear from error: whosever rejects evil and believes in allah has grasped the most trustworthy hand hold, that nevers breaks. and allah hears and knows all things. surah 2:2 this is the book: in it is "guidance sure", without doubt, to those who fear allah. if man could truly grasp these 2 verses, the world would be a better place. so, you see my brother, your answer is in the qur'an. you "can not" be forced to marry since allah doesn't force mankind to follow islam. surah 6:125. it becomes your chice to obey or not to obey. you answer to allah for what you do and don't do. allah has made clear the do's and don't in the qur'an and the prophet(sws) is the living example of the qur'an. no one can put you in hell, and no one can put you in paradise, eexcept allah, allah determine your final abode based upon your deeds. that's how simple islam is. it is better to marry than to burn wit desire. no desire for marriage, than you're not burning with desire. can't afford to get married, fast and pray until, allah grant's you a marriage. don't want the responsiblity of marriage, than yu can't get married. if you have sex out-side of marr
surgeonakhlaq

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, October 03, 2004  -  12:28 AM Reply with quote
Assalaamu’alaikum, RENEE
I am sorry to say that you could not understand me what I have pointed out. I have not at all condemned single marriage but multiple marriages, only if the previous wives are put in the misery, which is not unusual. May be it not so where you live and it is then right.
RENEE

USA
Posted - Monday, October 04, 2004  -  3:37 PM Reply with quote
with the name of allah
alsalam alkum

i'm sorry that i misunderstood, i thought that you were asking: if marriage was "fard". due to my up-bringing in the usa and christain up-bringing. i was taught that, a man can only be married, to "one" women, and that one women can only be married to one man at a time. one must divorce, to be able to marry again. there are many reason's one may divorce. however, depending on youe religious beliefs, would determine a couples divorce. for instance, the chruch doctorine that i was brought up to believe in. a couple would have to get marriage cconsolation before marriage as well as for a divorce. if the couple after this still wish to divorce. then they would be granted permission to do so from the chruch. but we are told that divorce isn't liked by g-d, and that, we must ask for forgiveness. and then we are free to marry again. now, the plural marriage, at one time. based upon my understanding of this. i agree with one wife at one time in normal circumstances. from reading the stories of the life of the prophet(sws). i notice that, he was married to one women, until that women died (khadejah, may allah be please with her). and not only that, he had no desire to marry another at the same time he was with her, even thou, he could have since that was a normal pratice at that time. i also, discovered that, when he decided to except plual marriage, he didn't do it for his own selfishness. he had a reason. what i found intersting in these cases, was the fact, that it was at the reguest of the women. and the women had the choice to chose. today, you find women being forced into plural marriages and not only that. you find the many cases of women not having choices at all, when it comes to their lives. i haven't found these pratices of islam today, in the islam of the pratices of the prophet(sws). i can't find one story, were the prophet(sws), forced any one person to do anything. espesiallly when it came to women and things that concerned them. today i find that,that muslim men and muslim women, lack, the freedom of free choice. look around the world, and see, truly see, the condition of the muslim's. it's easy to play, "the blame game", but the truth lies within the ummah, and not in one country, one sect of people, or one opnion. the saddes thing i have had to witiness, in this country among the muslim's, is how they tare each other apart by these things. you have one masjid of one race, and another based upon another race, and then, you have people like me, who wonder around confessed by all the racsim we witiness from muslim's. the islam i chose is nothing like the islam i found through the muslim communities. there are so many differences among the muslim's opnions about islam, that i've learnt the only guidence is the qur'an and the sunnah. i know the prophet(sws) wouldn't teach anything that goes agaisnst the qur'an. we i have doubt, i leave it alone until allah gives me insight. i have to anwere to allah for what i do, if i'm going to be punished for something from allah, i want to make sure i'm being punished, because it was my choice and not that i did wrong listen to someelse who was wrong. may allah bless us with understanding, to not let our hearts go astray after he has guided us, may he forgives of our wrongs and reward us for a good,may we seek refudge with him from shtan, from the troment of the grave, form the day when all mankind shall give account, and from the day's of the da'jal. may allah have mercy on us all. for- give- me, if i offend you or anyone else. i leave in peace.
RENEE

USA
Posted - Monday, October 04, 2004  -  3:37 PM Reply with quote
with the name of allah
alsalam alkum

i'm sorry that i misunderstood, i thought that you were asking: if marriage was "fard". due to my up-bringing in the usa and christain up-bringing. i was taught that, a man can only be married, to "one" women, and that one women can only be married to one man at a time. one must divorce, to be able to marry again. there are many reason's one may divorce. however, depending on youe religious beliefs, would determine a couples divorce. for instance, the chruch doctorine that i was brought up to believe in. a couple would have to get marriage cconsolation before marriage as well as for a divorce. if the couple after this still wish to divorce. then they would be granted permission to do so from the chruch. but we are told that divorce isn't liked by g-d, and that, we must ask for forgiveness. and then we are free to marry again. now, the plural marriage, at one time. based upon my understanding of this. i agree with one wife at one time in normal circumstances. from reading the stories of the life of the prophet(sws). i notice that, he was married to one women, until that women died (khadejah, may allah be please with her). and not only that, he had no desire to marry another at the same time he was with her, even thou, he could have since that was a normal pratice at that time. i also, discovered that, when he decided to except plual marriage, he didn't do it for his own selfishness. he had a reason. what i found intersting in these cases, was the fact, that it was at the reguest of the women. and the women had the choice to chose. today, you find women being forced into plural marriages and not only that. you find the many cases of women not having choices at all, when it comes to their lives. i haven't found these pratices of islam today, in the islam of the pratices of the prophet(sws). i can't find one story, were the prophet(sws), forced any one person to do anything. espesiallly when it came to women and things that concerned them. today i find that,that muslim men and muslim women, lack, the freedom of free choice. look around the world, and see, truly see, the condition of the muslim's. it's easy to play, "the blame game", but the truth lies within the ummah, and not in one country, one sect of people, or one opnion. the saddes thing i have had to witiness, in this country among the muslim's, is how they tare each other apart by these things. you have one masjid of one race, and another based upon another race, and then, you have people like me, who wonder around confessed by all the racsim we witiness from muslim's. the islam i chose is nothing like the islam i found through the muslim communities. there are so many differences among the muslim's opnions about islam, that i've learnt the only guidence is the qur'an and the sunnah. i know the prophet(sws) wouldn't teach anything that goes agaisnst the qur'an. we i have doubt, i leave it alone until allah gives me insight. i have to anwere to allah for what i do, if i'm going to be punished for something from allah, i want to make sure i'm being punished, because it was my choice and not that i did wrong listen to someelse who was wrong. may allah bless us with understanding, to not let our hearts go astray after he has guided us, may he forgives of our wrongs and reward us for a good,may we seek refudge with him from shtan, from the troment of the grave, form the day when all mankind shall give account, and from the day's of the da'jal. may allah have mercy on us all. for- give- me, if i offend you or anyone else. i leave in peace.
surgeonakhlaq

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, October 05, 2004  -  1:59 AM Reply with quote
Assalaamu’alaikum,
Thank you Renee and Jazak-Allah,
This is the way, we learn from one another. Islam does not like much the person sitting alone in a corner and doing every possible act to please Allah Almighty until he/she shares or promotes the knowledge of Islam. Now NO messenger of Allah will come and this is absolutely our responsibility to promote the mission of Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for which he was abused, injured and what not but he never left it. This is favourite most of him and obviously same for Allah Almighty who has given you the opportunities. Islam is the religion of fear of God, human values, brotherhood, relations with one another and endurance due to which we are here at this platform leading to the right way to paradise. May Allah bless you more?

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