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atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, August 04, 2004  -  7:34 AM Reply with quote
Dear Atif

I think the main cause of confusion here is that u believe about me that I am AGAINST marriage. I heve never said that one SHOULD NOT MARRY rather I have said so many times that its better to marry.

Your total speach is to convinve me that marriage is good. When I have denied it ????

You said that I am playing with words, I doubted about it very strongly. The translation I quoted to you of the verse is done by many Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

Another Translation of the same verse I have read from the website www.Quraan.com

There it is written as :

Then, We sent after them, Our Messengers, and We sent 'Iesa (Jesus) ­ son of Maryam (Mary), and gave him the Injeel (Gospel). And We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him, compassion and mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them, but (they sought it) only to please Allah therewith, but that they did not observe it with the right observance. So We gave those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are Fasiqun (rebellious, disobedient to Allah).

Here the words Yet we bestowed are not used rather its written as "So We gave those among them who believed, their (due) reward". Now its more clear that we gave due reward to those AMONG THEM ......


Now who are ALLAH talking about in the verse, those who invented Monasticism and reward is given to those who among them ........


The following translation is from website www.tafsir.comm where the Tafsir of Hafiz Ibne Kasir is available.

Then, We sent after them Our Messengers, and We sent `Isa the son of Maryam, and gave him the Injil. And We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him, compassion and mercy. But the monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them, but (they sought it) only to please Allah therewith, but that they did not observe it with the right observance. So, We gave those among them who believed, their (due) reward; but many of them are rebellious.)


Its again same and I have explained the verse. Its not that I am translating something on my own. Its the transaltion which I read at many places.

Even then I said to you that its not the issue here & we should stop talking about it.

The problem what we are discussing here is that Marriage obligatory or not. According to my knowledge its not obligatory. Now, I am not saying that I am 100% correct. This is what I believe and may be I am wrong but to prove me wrong u have to give some proves.

You said that We should seek knowledge in Arabic only, brother the problem here is I can't understand Arabic as its not Native language and moreover even the Arabic people can't understand the Exact meaning of Quran because the language of the Quran is somewhat different ( in some places not exactly different ) then the current Arabic. To understand the Holy Quran u have to learn the old Arabic which atleast I don't know.

I think it would be better to ask help from someone who knows.

The meaning u have given for the word "Fankihu" is "so marry" or "then marry". I accept it, may b u r right but even if someone knows a little bit of English he can easily say that these words are not used for Commanding/ordering something.



Just for an example, we all know that Prayer ( Salat ) is obligatory on all Muslims. Thr order of Salat is at many places in the Holy Quran. I am quoting one example :

Chapter 2 verse 43 :


002.043 And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity; and bow down your heads with those who bow down (in worship).

Al-Qur'an, 002.043 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])


See there are no words like "so pray" or "then Pray" Or in other words no use of the word "FANKIHU". An order is always given in clear words.

I am not wishfully accepting or rejecting anything but just using the common sense as ALLAH said in the Holy Qura'n :

1. Most certainly the worst of animals in Allah’s sight are the deaf, the dumb who do not use their brains. (8:22)

2. None will grasp the message but men of intellect? (2:269)


So, it's much better to use brain in order to seek guidance from the Holy Quran. No where it is written that u have to accept it as someone told u without using brain and I am just trying to do the same.


What u have said that I am contradicting in each paragraph, i would only say that either I am unable to explain or u r playing with my words. My points are very clear :

Marriage is good, recommended by ALLAH but no where it is a compulsion.

The verse u r quoting is in reference to the orphans, if there is any explicit order, such as there are orders of Salat, very clear at many places. So, if there is any order as clear then do tell me.

Quote
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Dear Atif, in all the verses wherever you find the word “fankihu”, it means clearly an order, a command, which you have to obey. Do not try to translate in any language of your choice to justify your assumptions.


Answer
======

Is there any other order (like Salat or any other thing on which there is no dispute) in the Holy Quran where the word FANKIHU is used.

I am sorry to say but this is no proof that u r saying so and I have to obey....... U have to give me some proof. Why don't u ask some scholor from this site. I m sire they are in much better position then both of us. One more thing, I am not going to be a christian or Fasiq just because of the reason that u think so. I know very well what I believe and whats my intention are.



You have said so many times that one cannot stay bachelor life-long. This is just an assumption from u. I have couple of examples around me where people are staying bachelor without indulging in sexual act. Its just ur frustration which caused u to do such act otherwise Jesus Christ would not have stayed bachelor.


Quote
=====
If someone argues that there is no command to eat Rice or Chapati in Al-Qur’aan what you will say about that man. If someone says, there is no command to sleep, how would you call that man. If a nudist argue that there is no command to dress, how will you justify. Does Allah say you to eat mangoes ? He makes fruits, vegetables and other eatables halaal. And forbids few things haraam. You cannot argue taking each and every thing in your hand and ask this is not made halaal. There are people who argue saying that there is no command of 5 times Salah. This is because of lack of proper understanding of the verses.

Answer
======

These are very interesting issues. You are here again proving my point. I'll answer one by one :

1. If someone says that I am not going to eat chapati or Rice, i would take only something like fruits, halaal meat, vegetables, bread etc... Do u think its a SIN ???? if u really think so then I can't say anything more.

2. If i don't sleep.... is it a SIN ?

3. If a nudist argue that there is no cammand to dress, I would just say that read the Quran. In surah Noor (24) and Surah Ahzaab (33) there are very clear orders.

4. If i don't eat something which is Halaal due to any reason... may be i don't like the Cow meat and i prefer goat. What u say in that.... am I doing a sin ????


I am very sorry to say but that is completely a childish appraoch.



Quote
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Let me make you understand the verse – 4:3 :

“And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphangirls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.”

Regarding your point of “If you fear” referred to in your write-up, please note that the word “if” goes with fear only. Not with anything else. If you do not fear, then you marry them. Somewhere you have assumed that Allah has told to marry their mother.


Answer
======

What u mean that If i fear that I could not take care of an orphan, I can marry with anyone I want. Now, suppose that I marry with another lady ( not the mother of that child ), How this assures that I'll be dealing justly with the child. The problem of dealing justly with the child remain same even if u marry 10 times as long as u did not marry the mother of that child and give him the status of ur own child. Its simple common sense.

This is just that people are using these verses for their own pleasure and claiming that they are obeying ALLAH. The fact is that ALLAH never orders to marry more than once and ALLAH also did not forbid. Now I am contradicting my statement, I have already said that it is left on the person and community, if someone wants to marry he is allowed provided he fulfill the requirements like paying the dower to the wife which is a compilsion once u decide to marry someone.



Abut the abnormalities, all u have quoted are medical fitnesses. I can't say anything more about it.

I would request the moderator to please help us to solve this issue.

Regards
Zeenaeem

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Wednesday, August 04, 2004  -  9:58 AM Reply with quote
Dear Atifrafi

The verse 57:27 now you have quoted with translation, is what I had also quoted to the nearest translation. The phrase “Among them who believed” is taken by you as the people who invented Monasticism. The same phrase taken by me is all believers. A believer to be a believer must believe in what Allah has ordained. Not that he invent something and assign that to Allah. Such a practice is not acceptable to Allah. It is like assigning falsehood to Allah. Hence Allah never accepted their Monasticism. Hence, rewarded those who DID NOT invent Monasticism but remained as believers.

Any invention other than prescribed is not acceptable to Allah. This has also been confirmed by our Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam saying that no invention in Deen is acceptable. This is the way of going astray and all such acts will lead to Jahannam. There is no question of Allah rewarding the inventors of Monasticism.

Since you are quoting with verse, I have to clarify.

Is it not your duty to search for proper knowledge when you are doubtful about marriage is obligatory or not ? One member Murada has already posted for your perusal a page from Fatwa bank of IslamOnline. On what ground are you not accepting that Fatwa ? For a healthy person marriage is Fardh, as per the Fatwa. If you have persistent doubts, you go to other Mufti to get another Fatwa.

When I am sure of the Verses and could easily see Allah’s command and also understood them, and have been practising them with due submission, it is not necessary for me to refer this matter to anywhere, because to me, it is clear, marriage is fardh. I do not have an iota of doubt about it.

Your quote :
“The meaning u have given for the word "Fankihu" is "so marry" or "then marry". I accept it, may b u r right but even if someone knows a little bit of English he can easily say that these words are not used for Commanding/ordering something.”
Unquote

Again you are taking the English words, so and then to fit into your agenda. If you do not know the Arabic it is your problem. can you hold
Al-Qur’aan responsible for that? Can you expect Allah to come down to your level of understanding. He has given you brain as you mentioned and grasp the message and be an intellect. Who holds you from becoming one like that ? Why is it too hard for you to understand that the commands are in between a group of commands, they fall in between a group of sentences ? I have already mentioned that the Islamic society was in the making, and a host of commands, rules and ethics were set up. During such time these verses were revealed.

Regarding your wishes of clear order from Allah, the whole of Al-Qur’aan is clear order from Allah. The use of “Fa” in some places does not nullify any other commands of Allah. If you separate “Fa” from “Fankihu” there remains “Ankihu” – both are orders as you have quoted to pray, and bow down.

I hope you have to make a good study of Arabic language, at least to the extent to understand Al-Qur’aan’s arrangement of verses, in a highly philosophical and poetical arrangement. You cannot afford to reject a command if it occurs in between the verses, which is told in the poetical flow of fine Arabic.

Your quote :

“You have said so many times that one cannot stay bachelor life-long. This is just an assumption from u. I have couple of examples around me where people are staying bachelor without indulging in sexual act. Its just ur frustration which caused u to do such act otherwise Jesus Christ would not have stayed bachelor”

Unquote

If the people who are staying bachelor, they CANNOT stay long. You contact them again after a few years. By that time they would have already committed sins. Or surely they will lie. It is not necessary for them to make a confession before you. In a friendly manner, sometimes, they will disclose. Try later. Had I frustrated with your talk, I would not have welcomed further discussion from you, clearly saying that in my last write up. Did not you read full ? You or anyone cannot make me frustrated. May be you will go frustrated with your adamant and rejecting attitude. Better you use some other words to describe my persistency. By rejecting Hadeeth of Sahih Bukhari, you have already become a Munkir-e-Hadith, you know ?

I was expecting from you the point of Eisa (Alaihissalaam). I have answered this to many Christian Missionaries who argued that since Jesus (peace be upon him) did not marry, the Church fathers also have been practicing Monasticism. Basically your doubts are the ones emanated from a Christian mind, which I have already pointed out to you. Eisa Alaihissalaam was a Prophet of Allah. He was taken up by Allah at the age of 33 years. He was born without the male intervention. Eisa Alaihissalaam did not follow Monasticism, nor he ordered. But he was the Word from Allah, noble, keeping away from sexual relations with women, a Prophet, from among the righteous.

Please note that Allah did not use the word “Rahbaniya” (as per 57:27). To describe Eisa Alaihissalaam Allah used the word “hasooran” to describe his status. Hence, your argument taking Jesus (peace be upon him) name is weak. Moreover, when Jesus (peace be upon him) comes to this world for the second time, he will live like a Muslim, will marry, have children and die as a Muslim.

In order to convince you, I have to resort to some childish approach, so that you can understand better. But in that simplest efforts also you failed to understand my point. The people who need to have some pretext to escape from responsibilities always try to find a loophole like things and if they find any, their scanty knowledge assumes and convinces them that they are right and also assume that there is no clarity in commands from Allah. That is what you are doing now.

The nudist will argue with you saying that that is for ladies to dress, not for me. If you come to wear the cloth then only the measurements become applicable to you. If you choose to remain nude, no law of this world or any Divine Laws will ever change you.

You cannot make a Halaa thing Haraam for you. If you are allergic to something you can abstain from eating it. There is no sin. You can remain without eating any meat, if you are allergic to, but making it haraam for you is not correct.

If you can use your common sense, you will very well deal with the problem of children as other now dealing with. There are millions, I repeat millions of families here who have their own children as well as children born to another father. Yet they live together. You can solve the quarrel of children as you would solve in between you own children. There is no much common sense needed here.

The possible forthcoming quarrel between children is not the criteria to hold you from getting married, once or twice or thrice. That is only your assumption of things, which may happen or may not happen. You may get children or you may not get children. If there would be a quarrel, there would be a solution and peace.

Paying dower, or Mahr is not a problem for a believing Muslim. Billions of people are doing it. There is nothing new in this. You can keep your Mahr money to the lowest, mutually agreed with a poorest family.

Even beggars get married. They pay Mahr too. They raise their children. They do not run away from their responsibilities.


Peace & Childish Smiles

Zeenaeem
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, August 04, 2004  -  11:25 AM Reply with quote
Dear Zeenaeem


I am totally unable understand what u r trying to prove. U r saying that Fankihu means order. I can agree to it if u can provide some prove of it.

Regarding Monasticism, I think u start another topic and i'll reply their. Just one thing, u quoted that no invention in Deen is acceptable. So this means that any invention in deen after the Prophet (peace be upon him) is not acceptable. If u agree to it then we are into a new discussion and I would recommend a new topic for that. We should avoid it here.

If i am not accepting any Fatwa do u think by doing so i did not remain a muslim? Where it is written that I have to accept a Fatwa from some scholor. There are many scholors who says that marriage is not Obligatory. why don't u listen to them. Just for example ask from Mr. Javed Ghamidi


You said that u are sure that marriage is Fardh, I am also sure that its not Fardh. Now, i think u r in doubt. Thats u I asked from u to show some Clear order. Make one thing very clear, Every Fardh is very clear in the Holy Qura'n and nobody needs any explanation on that. There is not even 1% chance of any confusion about Fardh.



Quote
=====
Again you are taking the English words, so and then to fit into your agenda. If you do not know the Arabic it is your problem. can you hold
Al-Qur’aan responsible for that? Can you expect Allah to come down to your level of understanding. He has given you brain as you mentioned and grasp the message and be an intellect. Who holds you from becoming one like that ? Why is it too hard for you to understand that the commands are in between a group of commands, they fall in between a group of sentences ? I have already mentioned that the Islamic society was in the making, and a host of commands, rules and ethics were set up. During such time these verses were revealed.

Answer
======

If you think that I am playing with these English words, why can't u translate this word as "U MUST". Its not that I am playing rather u r trying to play by stating that u know arabic better than me. Do u think that ALLAH Almighty is talking to some one else in the Qura'n, when He is talking to human beings ( all Arabs and non arabs ) then it must be in a way that everybody can understand it easily. And I believe that it is in the same manner its just that you are trying to prove that I cannot understand it becasue i don't know Arabic. YOu are completely contradicting the commands of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) that there is no advantage on the basis of races or languages.

U know my native Language is Urdu and I consult many Urdu transalations as well before quoting any verse of the Quraan.


In praying and bowing down verse : It states that

"Wa Aqeem us Salaata, Wa atuzakaata wa arkau marrakeen" I hope u can understand. Where the word "Fa" or Ahkihu is used ?


If u say that no one can remain un-married without committing any sin, this is just ur imagination. Can u give any prove ( From Islam ) about it. About Jesus Christ I quoted is due to the factor that He remains unmarried and still did not indulge in Sins, i did not quote it to prove something about Monasticism.


Quote
=====

In order to convince you, I have to resort to some childish approach, so that you can understand better. But in that simplest efforts also you failed to understand my point. The people who need to have some pretext to escape from responsibilities always try to find a loophole like things and if they find any, their scanty knowledge assumes and convinces them that they are right and also assume that there is no clarity in commands from Allah. That is what you are doing now.

Answer
======

I failed to understand your point because u haven't given any logical explanation. If there is any clear command about marriage why don't u just show me ?


Quote
=====

The nudist will argue with you saying that that is for ladies to dress, not for me. If you come to wear the cloth then only the measurements become applicable to you. If you choose to remain nude, no law of this world or any Divine Laws will ever change you.

Answer
======

You have read only those verses of the Holy Qur'an which serves your point. It would be better for u that u read rest of it as well.


024.030 Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

There is a clear order to guard their modesty. What does that means ?


About hte frustration, I never said that u r frustrated responding here. I think u better read that again. I was referring to something else.



Peace.
Atif
Zeenaeem

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Wednesday, August 04, 2004  -  1:01 PM Reply with quote
Dear Atifrafi

Every Verse of Al-Qur’aan is a command of Allah and you have to accept it. Otherwise, you will be counted as one among the rejecters of Truth.

I will be pleased to remind you again that during the making of Islamic State, several laws were enacted as per the Divine Revelations. During such time, with a series of commands, the marriage command comes and gets implemented. These are a group of commands and as per the style of Al-Qur’aan the words used cannot be rejected saying they are not specific. Astaghfirullah. You will surely land yourself in Apostasy, if you reject the true essence of a verse.

Wasjudu, Warkau, etc, are no different command than saying fankihu, because fankihu is a compound word - “so + marry” or then + marry). If you remove ‘Fa’ there remains ankihu to sound like Wasjudu (and+asjudu) or Warkau ( and+arkau). Both are same. You can read verses from 4:3 to 30 or more to understand all the commands of a Islamic state enacted at that time. These orders are very clear and fully followed by 100,000 Sahabas present during the life time of Prophet (Muhammad). And these commands have been followed for 1400 years without any difficulty and with easy understanding. Only it is a Western disease infected group to which you belong is short of understanding and reading the Divine Message in its own language. Each one is a command. You have to obey them. If you do not obey you are surely counted one among the rejecters.

Only Allah can judge your Eimaan. I can say from what you accept and what you deny. Not only Javid Ghamdi, there are a host of Christian Missionaries who say, marriage is not obligatory in Islam. Do you also listen to them ? We go according to Al-Qur’aan. When I have repeatedly given you verses, you are denying that Allah must have told like this and like that. Allah has made his message clean and clear. When all the 3 Billion + Muslims can understand, why a small group like you who are trying to insult Islam’s foundation pillar, a marriage, a healthy practice, denying that it is not ordered to be followed? You cannot prove anything but wrong yourself, and lower your Eimaan. I need you to post the Javid Ghamdi’s Fatwa, for my record. Please post it.

People remaining unmarried and committing adultery and fornication is not my imagination. You can find millions of these people around you and all over the world. Monasticism is the opposite word to Married life. They go together. When Monasticism is Haraam and Prohibited in Islam, Marriage is Fard and Halaal. You can argue here also Monasticism. Let me see, how far you will go with your understanding.

Your not knowing Arabic and your mother tongue being Urdu etc. are nothing to do with the Commands of Allah. To understand the minute things (should you fail to understand the plain language) then you have to learn Arabic instead of relying on translations and anyone, including me. You accept the way I explain, or reject. It is up to you. But the message of Al-Qur’aan will never get changed. You can any time refer.

When there is no “can”, “have to”, “must” or “may” why are you adding them to suit your agenda. I have already made it clear to you that these prepositions need only in English. Let me know what is written in Urdu, if you have Urdu translation. Write the translation of Verse-4:3, 4:23, 4:24 etc. In order to avoid these selective translation confusion, I asked you to refer to Al-Qur’aan in its own language.

The way you way tried to answer the dressing code, you try to understand reading other verses of marriage scattered elsewhere in Al-Qur’aan. That is what I know. You are dressing and could not go nude that is why it is easy to find such code in Al-Qur’aan. Like that if you desist your pre-occupied mind on Monasticism or Bachelor-hood, and accept the truth as told with regard to marriage, then it will be easy for you to understand. Till such time, you will inculcate doubts on Divine Message and will be thinking that Al-Qur’aan is not complete with all instruction. Islam is a way of life. Whatever is needed in the life is there in Al-Qur’aan. And you say, there is no command to Marry ? It is absolutely an anti-Islamic Christian Missionaries handy work.

Your quote :
“About hte frustration, I never said that u r frustrated responding here. I think u better read that again. I was referring to something else”

Your previous quote:
“You have said so many times that one cannot stay bachelor life-long. This is just an assumption from u. I have couple of examples around me where people are staying bachelor without indulging in sexual act. Its just ur frustration which caused u to do such act otherwise Jesus Christ would not have stayed bachelor.”
Unquote

Let me understand from your point of view what you talk about the frustration which caused me to do such act. And the connecting sentence “otherwise Jesus Christ would not have stayed bachelor”

Please clarify what you mean from the above statement.


Peace & Clarifying Smiles

Zeenaeem
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, August 04, 2004  -  2:32 PM Reply with quote
Salaam

First of all i am sorry that my point was not clear about Mr. Javed Ghamidi. What i wanted to say that we can ask from him, I really don't know whats his opinion right now. I can confirm it in few days then I'll let u know as well.

I agree to you that every verse of the Holy Quran is a command of ALLAH and we have to follow each and every verse present in the Qura'n. I think that our main problem is about the meaning of the word "Fankihu". I think it would be better that we solve this first.

For that, i have consulted some translations and told u what I have understood. According to you I am not correct. I think it would be better that u provide some reference where I can consult the meaning fo this particular word or of the verse. May be Some Tafsir of the Quran where u can prove ur point.


You have talked many time about christian missionary, believe me I have never read them or listened to them. Its totally my point of view and if u think i am wrong then please provide some reference to prove your point.


People remaining unmarried and committing adultery is not anyone's imagination here, but i would say that marriage is not a guarantee that one will not commit adultery.


By using the words “can”, “have to”, “must” or “may” I am not daring to add something into Qura'n but this is something very clear in the Quran. I have asked u earlier that why don't u translate the word "Fankihu" as "U MUST" marry. Is it correct or not ?


The dressing order is very clear. The Marriage verses are also clear to recommend, not to order. For us, I think we should do what is recommended in the Qura'n but we should be clear what is recommended and what is Fardh.


About frustration, I was quoting those people who marry more than once, even more than 4 and say that they are doing this to save themselves from adultery. Just to fulfill their lust they use the name of Islam. If u know about Pakistan, here is a very popular politician who has married i think about 9 times ( officially) and he says the same. This is what i was pointing that people are using the name of Islam to fulfill there own lust.


I hope i have cleared my point.

Waslaam

Edited by: atifrafi on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:40 PM
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, August 05, 2004  -  4:16 PM Reply with quote
Dear Zeenaeem

In Holy Quran, chapter 4 verse 25. it is stated that :

004.025 If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


Here ALLAH almighty gave a permission to Muslim men that if they don't have means to marry a believing women then they can marry the slave girls. Now, this is again a privelage or permission given in some special circumstance same as in the verse 4:3.

Here if u see ALLAH Almighty says that "This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint" Now can you please explain what does it mean ? There are 2 very important points in it :

1. This persmission is only for those who fear sin.

2. It is "BETTER" to avoid, even for those who fear sin.

If it is better to avoid marriage even u fear sin ( provided u don't have means ) then how can it be an order to marry just to be safe from sins ??

Looking forward for your explanation.

The Fatwa u talked so many times, I have just read that and quoting from the same Fatwa:

. Marriage is considered fard (obligatory) if a person is so tormented by sexual desire that he/she fears falling into the sin of fornication. Since staying away from fornication is obligatory, and since marriage is the only avenue for legitimate sexual satisfaction, it becomes obligatory on such a person to get married. This is based on the principle in jurisprudence that says: “If an obligatory thing cannot be fulfilled except by fulfilling another, then fulfilling the latter becomes equally obligatory.”

It is clearly stated in this Fatwa as well, if u agree on it that marriage is Fardh only if a person is so tormented by sexual desire that he/she fears falling into the sin of fornication. This clearly means that if a person is not tormented by sexual desire to the extent that he fears fornication then its not a Fardh.

I am very sorry to say that the Fatwa u have been quoting so many times, u didn't even read that carefully. Please make sure that u have read it completely before quoting.

I have to talk some more on the same Fatwa but currently very short of time. InshaALLAH I'll post some more points on the same Fatwa tomorrow morning ( Pakistan Time ). Right now I'll only say that this Fatwa is exactly the same what I have been telling to u & I'll prove it tomorrow.

ALLAH Hafiz

Edited by: atifrafi on Friday, August 06, 2004 5:18 AM
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, August 06, 2004  -  6:26 AM Reply with quote
Dear Zeenaeem

Now, I'll continue my points from the Fatwa u referred :

Second point there is :


2. If, however, he or she is not so tormented by sexual desire, and, hence, there is no fear of falling into sin, then it is highly recommended to get married if one has the means to do so. By doing so, one is fulfilling one of the great Sunnahs of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), our perfect role model


Its written that if a person is not so tormented by sexual desire, then it is highly recommended. Please note that the words used here are "Highly Recommended" not Fardh. There is no mention of any medical fitness. Plus it is also mentioned that it is highly recommended if u have means to do so...... If u don't have means then for that we have to read the next point, which states :

3. If a person knows for certain that he or she cannot fulfill the duties required in marriage, and there is no fear of his/her falling into sin, then it becomes haram for such a person to get married. Islam forbids us from doing injustice to another person; this would definitely be the case if one were to neglect his/her spousal duties

No if u know for sure that u cannot fulfill the duties then its "HARAAM". These duties can be related to medical fitness as well but these can be other than that. There is no mention of only medical fitness just because of a simple reason that Marriage is not only a legal way for sex but it has much more than that and u have to fulfill all the requirements. Its clealry written that " Islam forbids us from doing injustice to another person" which can be in sexual aspect adn can be other than that.

Specially note that in this case its haraam to marry, how it could be FARD then. This totally depends upon the circumstances and in normal circumstances a person must marry but there are cases where he / she can decide not to marry.

I hope that this is clear now.

ALLAH Hafiz
Zeenaeem

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Friday, August 06, 2004  -  5:15 PM Reply with quote
Dear Atifrafi

Your quote:

“People remaining unmarried and committing adultery is not anyone's imagination here, but i would say that marriage is not a guarantee that one will not commit adultery.”

Because of married people committing adultery, do you assume that it is better to commit adultery being unmarried ? Adultery is a capital sin. It should not be committed in either of the states – married or unmarried.

Be aware that adultery is mostly committed by unmarried, because, every healthy man have to have an outlet. It is quite natural. That is why marriage is necessary to be in sane mind, keep our Eimaan intact, our healthy in a good state following the Islamic moral ethics.

To simplify things, let us start in this way :

When a men or women are becoming ready for marriage, i.e. At the age of their puberty, say it is between 12 to 16, very few get married at this age. One may remain unmarried for certain period for want of resources which are depending upon his income, his immediate responsibilities at home with respect to other sisters’ marriage, education of himself and other siblings, care of parents if they are aged, living standard of his family, housing problems, plus other socio-economic problems.

During such time, he has to restrain himself by not committing illegal sexual intercourse. Some may take 5 years (after the age of 16), some 10 years and others 15 years. At the most, majority of the men stay unmarried till they read 30. They strive hard to get away with every problem at hand and make themselves to be ready to get married. In such case, what holds them back from entering into a marriage fold ? If you feel still not attracted to the marriage and sure of being sinless (fornication, etc). then it means you have some medical problem. For a healthy man, everyday is burning day for him in loneliness. This is general trend. Even at the age of 30 or 35 few people take another route – they go away from home to gulf countries without marrying. This type of journey takes their 5 to 10 years away from their life. Once they go back to their home, say by the age of 45 or so, they become tired and tasteless. AT this age, it becomes very difficult for them to marry a girl of their choice. But to take care of their old age, there must be someone very personal. This time, only a wife can serve him better than anyone else.

The people who do not have the above experience, must get married at the age of 30 in order to raise their own family and children. By the time they become retired, say at the age of 60 or so, their children become ready for the next round of their responsibilities. This is how the world is going on smoothly.

Suppose anyone, at any stage feel very strongly a desire to have a sexual intercourse, the marriage becomes Fardh on him. If he does not and can pull his life till such time that he settles all his problems, then the marriage becomes fardh or Sunnah depending upon his personal condition.


Your quote :

“By using the words “can”, “have to”, “must” or “may” I am not daring to add something into Qura'n but this is something very clear in the Quran. I have asked u earlier that why don't u translate the word "Fankihu" as "U MUST" marry. Is it correct or not ?”
Unquote


What ever we can add, we can add or delete only in the translation. The adding the deleting in translation is only an effort to give the maximum clearest message of Allah to the mankind. Hence, no translation is perfect. Neither English nor Urdu or any other language can give the exact message of Allah. The nearest meaning is given to general understanding. In case of a dispute of minute details, it is always stressed to look into the original language – Arabic to find the exact message. Hence, none can translate “Fankihu” with any wishful prepositions assuming a meaning as we want. No. To marry, stress is already there. It simply can be understood that you “marry” or “wed”.

Your quote :

“The dressing order is very clear. The Marriage verses are also clear to recommend, not to order. For us, I think we should do what is recommended in the Qura'n but we should be clear what is recommended and what is Fardh.

Unquote

All orders of Al-Qur’aan are to be obeyed. If at all there is any leniency, it would have been clearly defined. Like, making love with wife during the nights of Ramadhan, For breaking an oath, or indulging in sexual acts during fasting, you can compensate such sins with freeing slaves, if you do not have animal to sacrifice during Hajj, they you can fast for 3 days there and 7 days on return home, if you do not have means to marry a free woman then you can marry a slave girl with the permission of the owner, etc. etc. If you chose to reject any command of Allah, saying there is no stress, there is only recommendation, there is no order, etc, read the following :

“Verily, those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His Messengers (by believing in Allah and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, “We believe in some but reject other,” and wish to adopt a way in between.” “They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.” “And those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of them (Messengers), We shall give them their rewards, and Allah is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful.” ( An-Nisa, Chapter-4, Verses-150-152

“And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc) ? Verily, the Zalimum (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) shall never be successful.” (Al-Anam – Chapter-6, Verse-21)

Read also Surah Al-Anam, Verses-39, 49, 93 and 157. Surah Al-Araf, Verses-9, 36, 37, 51, 182,

To the people who follow their vain desire, Allah warns : “ And had We willed, We would surely have elevated him therewith but he clung to the earth and followed hi own vain desire. So his description is the description of a dog: if you drive him away, he lolls his tongue out, or if you leave him alone, he (still lolls his tongue out. Such is the description of the people who reject Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc). So relate the stories, perhaps they may reflect.” “Evil is the likeness of the people who reject Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses and signs, etc), and used to wrong their ownselves.

Your quote :

“About frustration, I was quoting those people who marry more than once, even more than 4 and say that they are doing this to save themselves from adultery. Just to fulfill their lust they use the name of Islam. If u know about Pakistan, here is a very popular politician who has married i think about 9 times ( officially) and he says the same. This is what i was pointing that people are using the name of Islam to fulfill there own lust.”

Unquote

People do not marry out of frustration. Marrying up to 4 is allowed. If you think that people are simply taking advantage of the verse, which in your own opinion, does not give any permission etc. you are absolutely wrong. This is the verse (4:3) making it clear to the people that if they could deal justly, they can marry up to 4. In order to understand a command of Allah, you must know the background and situation under which it was revealed. Read the following :

Tafsir Tabari :

The Prohibition of Marrying Female Orphans Without Giving a Dowry


Allah said,


[وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِى الْيَتَـمَى فَانكِحُواْ مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِّنَ النِّسَآءِ مَثْنَى]


(And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two) Allah commands, when one of you is the caretaker of a female orphan and he fears that he might not give her a dowry that is suitable for women of her status, he should marry other women, who are plenty as Allah has not restricted him. Al-Bukhari recorded that `A'ishah said, "A man was taking care of a female orphan and he married her, although he did not desire to marry her. That girl's money was mixed with his, and he was keeping her portion from her. Afterwards, this Ayah was revealed about his case;


[وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ]


(If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly)'' Al-Bukhari recorded that `Urwah bin Az-Zubayr said that he asked `A'ishah about the meaning of the statement of Allah,


[وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِى الْيَتَـمَى]


(If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls.) She said, "O my nephew! This is about the orphan girl who lives with her guardian and shares his property. Her wealth and beauty may tempt him to marry her without giving her an adequate dowry which might have been given by another suitor. So, such guardians were forbidden to marry such orphan girls unless they treated them justly and gave them the most suitable dowry; otherwise they were ordered to marry woman besides them.'' `A'ishah further said, "After that verse, the people again asked the Messenger of Allah (about marriage with orphan girls), so Allah revealed the Ayah,


[وَيَسْتَفْتُونَكَ فِى النِّسَآءِ]


(They ask your instruction concerning the women..) [4:127].'' She said, "Allah's statement in this Ayah,


[وَتَرْغَبُونَ أَن تَنكِحُوهُنَّ]


(yet whom you desire to marry) [4:127] refers to the guardian who does not desire to marry an orphan girl under his supervision because she is neither wealthy nor beautiful. The guardians were forbidden to marry their orphan girls possessing property and beauty without being just to them, as they generally refrain from marrying them (when they are neither beautiful nor wealthy).''

The Permission to Marry Four Women


Allah's statement,


[مَثْنَى وَثُلَـثَ وَرُبَاعَ]


(two or three, or four), means, marry as many women as you like, other than the orphan girls, two, three or four. We should mention that Allah's statement in another Ayah,


[جَاعِلِ الْمَلَـئِكَةِ رُسُلاً أُوْلِى أَجْنِحَةٍ مَّثْنَى وَثُلَـثَ وَرُبَـعَ]


(Who made the angels messengers with wings, - two or three or four) [35:1], does not mean that other angels do not have more than four wings, as there are proofs that some angels do have more wings. Yet, men are prohibited from marrying more than four wives, as the Ayah decrees, since the Ayah specifies what men are allowed of wives, as Ibn `Abbas and the majority of scholars stated. If it were allowed for them to have more than four wives, the Ayah would have mentioned it. Imam Ahmad recorded that Salim said that his father said that Ghilan bin Salamah Ath-Thaqafi had ten wives when he became Muslim, and the Prophet said to him, "Choose any four of them (and divorce the rest).'' During the reign of `Umar, Ghilan divorced his remaining wives and divided his money between his children.

Therefore, had it been allowed for men to marry more than four women at the same time, the Prophet would have allowed Ghilan to keep more than four of his wives since they all embraced Islam with him. When the Prophet commanded him to keep just four of them and divorce the rest, this indicated that men are not allowed to keep more than four wives at a time under any circumstances. If this is the case concerning those who already had more than four wives upon embracing Islam, then this ruling applies even more so to marrying more than four.

Your politician in Pakistan is not your mentor or guide in Islam. Nor you or anyone else is going to answer for his excesses committed. If he marries 9 or more, he is responsible for that. Without knowing the full truth, it is not good to comment on anyone. As long as he keeps 4 wives at a time, none has a right to comment anything bad on him. None will question you as to why didn’t you follow him. But you will be answerable if you do not follow our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).


Peace & Plenty of Smiles

Zeenaeem
Zeenaeem

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Friday, August 06, 2004  -  5:24 PM Reply with quote
Dear Atif


Regarding the verse 4:25, your quote :

“Here ALLAH almighty gave a permission to Muslim men that if they don't have means to marry a believing women then they can marry the slave girls. Now, this is again a privelage or permission given in some special circumstance same as in the verse 4:3.

Here if u see ALLAH Almighty says that "This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint" Now can you please explain what does it mean ? There are 2 very important points in it :

1. This persmission is only for those who fear sin.

2. It is "BETTER" to avoid, even for those who fear sin.

If it is better to avoid marriage even u fear sin ( provided u don't have means ) then how can it be an order to marry just to be safe from sins ??

Unquote

Please note that the word “persmission” stated by you above is not there in Arabic Verse of Al-Qur’aan. This word is inserted either by you or by the translator.

Here again, we have to see the background of the verse along with its situation of revelation. The background is the formation of Islamic State with all its rules and regulations and moral ethics. The situation is to instill a very good moral - the very foundation of Islam. The followers have to be trained in dealing with women. Marriage was the main motto to done away with the problem of slavery. If you read the verse-4:28 through which Allah says :

“Allah wishes to lighten (the burden) for you; and man was created weak (cannot be patient to leave sexual intercourse with woman).

Also see 4:26 where Allah says : “Allah wishes to make clear (what is lawful and what is unlawful) to you, and to show you the ways of those before you, and accept your repentance, and Allah is AllKnower, AllWise.”


In order to set right the problem of women, slave girls, etc. marriage was prescribed and those who cannot afford to marry free-women were commanded by this order of Allah to marry slave-girls, duly paying their Mahr. (It is a command of Allah).

Allah did not say “permission” as you have quoted in para-2 of your quote. Allah did not say to avoid marriage fearing sin.


Tafsir Tabari :

Marrying a Female Slave, if One Cannot Marry a Free Woman


Allah said, those who do not have the means, (financial capability), wherewith to wed free believing women meaning, free faithful, chaste women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess. Meaning, they are allowed to wed believing slave girls owned by the believers. (and Allah has full knowledge about your faith; you are one from another.) Meaning Allah knows the true reality and secrets of all things, but you people know only the apparent things. Allah then said, “Wed them with the permission of their own folk) indicating that the owner is responsible for the slave girl, and consequently, she cannot marry without his permission. The owner is also responsible for his male slave and they cannot wed without his permission.

A Hadith states: Any male slave who marries without permission from his master, is a fornicator. When the owner of the female slave is a female, those who are allowed to give away the free woman in marriage, with her permission, become responsible for giving away her female slave in marriage, as well.

A Hadith states that the woman does not give away another woman, or herself in marriage, for only the adulteress gives herself away in marriage. And give them their due in a good manner;) meaning, pay them their dowry with a good heart, and do not keep any of it, belittling the matter due to the fact that they are owned slaves. Allah's statement, (they should be chaste) means, they are honorable women who do not commit adultery, and this is why Allah said, (not fornicators) referring to dishonorable women, who do not refrain from illicit sexual relations with those who ask.

Ibn `Abbas said that the fornicating women are the whores, who do not object to having relations with whomever seeks it, while, (nor promiscuous - refers to taking boyfriends. Similar was said by Abu Hurayrah, Mujahid, Ash-Sha`bi, Ad-Dahhak, `Ata' Al-Khurasani, Yahya bin Abi Kathir, Muqatil bin Hayyan and As-Suddi.


The Slave Girl's Punishment for Adultery is Half that of a Free Unmarried Woman


Allah said,

(And after they have been taken in wedlock, if they commit Fahishah, their punishment is half of that for free (unmarried women). This is about the slave women who got married, as indicated by the Ayah;

(And whoever of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess,) Therefore, since the honorable Ayah is about believing slave girls, then,

And after they have been taken in wedlock - refers to when they (believing slave girls) get married, as Ibn `Abbas and others have said. Allah's statement :

Their punishment is half of that for free (unmarried women.) indicates that the type of punishment prescribed here is the one that can be reduced to half, lashes in this case, not stoning to death, and Allah knows best. Allah's statement,

(This is for him among you who is afraid of being harmed in his religion or in his body;) indicates that marrying slave girls, providing one satisfies the required conditions, is for those who fear for their chastity and find it hard to be patient and refrain from sex. In this difficult circumstance, one is allowed to marry a slave girl. However, it is better to refrain from marrying slave girls and to observe patience, for otherwise, the offspring will become slaves to the girl's master. Allah said :

“but it is better for you that you practice self-restraint, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

(26). Allah wishes to make clear (what is lawful and what is unlawful) to you, and to show you the ways of those before you, and accept your repentance, and Allah is All-Knower, All-Wise.)

(27). Allah wishes to accept your repentance, but those who follow their lusts, wish that you (believers) should deviate tremendously away (from the right path)) (28. Allah wishes to lighten (the burden) for you; and man was created weak. ) Allah explains to the believers what He has allowed and prohibited for them in this and other Surahs,

(And to show you the ways of those before you,) meaning their righteous ways and how to adhere to the commandments that He likes and is pleased with.

(and accept your repentance) from sin and error,

(and Allah is All-Knower, All-Wise.) in His commands, decrees, actions and statements. Allah's statement, (but those who follow their lusts, wish that you (believers) should deviate tremendously away from the right path)) indicates that the followers of Shaytan among the Jews, Christians and the adulterous, wish that you would take the horrendous path of falsehood instead of the truth.

(Allah wishes to lighten (the burden) for you'') His legislation, orders, what He prohibits and what He decrees for you. This is why Allah has allowed free men to marry slave girls under certain conditions, as Mujahid and others have stated.

(and man was created weak.) and this is why it is suitable in his case that the commands are made easy for him, because of his weakness and feebleness. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Tawus said that,

(and man was created weak), "Concerning women''. Waki` said, "Man's mind leaves when women are involved.''


Hence, dear Atifrafi, every Verse is a command of Allah and it is obligatory on us to follow them.

Your quote :

“It is clearly stated in this Fatwa as well, if u agree on it that marriage is Fardh only if a person is so tormented by sexual desire that he/she fears falling into the sin of fornication. This clearly means that if a person is not tormented by sexual desire to the extent that he fears fornication then its not a Fardh.”

Unquote

You rightly understood but are trying to take advantage in the same line of your politician who had 9 wives (as you quoted). If a person is not tormented by sexual desire the status of marriage is not changed, but he does not come under the “fardh” category of marriage. The marriage on him still remains fardh BUT he can take time to get married.

Your quote :

“I am very sorry to say that the Fatwa u have been quoting so many times, u didn't even read that carefully. Please make sure that u have read it completely before quoting.”

Unquote

You do not have to be sorry for my quoting the Fatwa unread. That Fatwa is meant for you, not for me. Because, I have already obeyed the orders of Allah. I am sure I have read that Fatwa quoted by another poster “Murada”.


Peace & Abundant Smiles

Zeenaeem
saadiamalik

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, August 06, 2004  -  11:57 PM Reply with quote

Assalaamu Alaikum.

The Qur'an strongly recommends marriage for anyone with the means and the desire, so it must be the ideal way to go for most people. However, remaining a bachelor (or bachelorette) seems to be no sin either. Prophets Yahya and Eesaa, alaihissalaam, died bachelors. And for valid reasons, so did several great scholars of Islam - to name a few: Imam Ibn Taymiyyah, Tabari and Nawawi.

If it had the status of Sunnah - which was probably established as a source from the times of Prophet Ibrahim, alaihissalaam - then I would certainly not expect the Prophets and the devoted of God Almighty to neglect a Sunnah.

Comments are welcome.

Wasalaam.

Saadia

Zeenaeem

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Saturday, August 07, 2004  -  6:52 AM Reply with quote
Dear Saadiamalik

You have given the answer for the Prophets and great Scholars of Islam remaining unmarried – “And for valid reasons…”

We do not know the reasons and nor can we question them their motto of remaining unmarried. They had a mission to fulfill. Prophets Yahya Alaihissalaam
and Eisa Alaihissalaam were ordained with a Mission of Allah and chosen by
Allah Himself. See the following verses :

“O Yahya! Hold fast the Scripture (the Taurat). And We gave him wisdom while yet a child.” “And (made him) sympathetic to men as a mercy (or a grant) from Us, and pure from sins (i.e. Yahya) and he was righteous. (Surah Maryam, Chapter-19, Verses-12 & 13).

Not only Prophets Yahya Alaihissalaam and Eisa Alaihissalaam died bachelors, but also millions of youth, even today are dying bachelors. All those who died young, without marriage cannot be charged with negligence of a Sunnah. Their matter is with Allah, and Allah knows best the reason why they remained bachelors till death. We know that Prophet Eisa will Insha Allah come again in this world, will follow Islam, will get married, have children and then die and will be buried.

I have heard that even Imam Bukhari did not want to get into marriage because of the extensive travel he took over for the collection of Ahadees. Like that other Scholars may had a particular mission and several other reasons, which we do not know.

But all of those people are not a guide for us to remain bachelor. Their status will be questioned by Allah and they are answerable to Allah alone. Their bachelorhood or practice of celibacy will not be questioned to anyone else.

You might have heard the Hadees, saying: “An-Nikah Min Sunnati, Faman Raghib Un Sunnati Falaisa Minni.” Prophet Mohammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam said “The Nikah is from me, who does not desire my Sunnat, he is not from me” (not a Muslim). Except all encumbrances, one has to get married.

Please read the following Hadith from Sahih Bukhari :

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 1:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

A group of three men came to the houses of the wives of the Prophet asking how the Prophet worshipped (Allah), and when they were informed about that, they considered their worship insufficient and said, "Where are we from the Prophet as his past and future sins have been forgiven." Then one of them said, "I will offer the prayer throughout the night forever." The other said, "I will fast throughout the year and will not break my fast." The third said, "I will keep away from the women and will not marry forever." Allah's Apostle came to them and said, "Are you the same people who said so-and-so? By Allah, I am more submissive to Allah and more afraid of Him than you; yet I fast and break my fast, I do sleep and I also marry women. So he who does not follow my tradition in religion, is not from me (not one of my followers)."


My point is that if someone wants to remain bachelor, go ahead, none will offer him any girl for marriage. He will be answerable to Allah for such a stance. But do not take Allah’s Word for granted to justify your practice of celibacy. Do not invalidate the Verses of Al-Qur’aan saying, it is not obligatory on you. Such an attemp amounts to rejection of holy verse carrying command from Allah.


Peace & Conjugal Smiles

Zeenaeem
saadiamalik

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, August 07, 2004  -  9:41 PM Reply with quote
quote:

But all of those people are not a guide for us to remain bachelor.


I did not say that all those people should be taken as "guides"; rather, that at least the prophets' status demonstrates for us that not marrying is not a sin. If it were obligatory, Allah would have made it so. If you're saying that they didn't marry because they had a mission to fulfill, then I would humbly disagree in terms of taking that as an explanation. I cannot believe that any of Allah's prophets - peace and blessings be upon them - would sacrifice his 'orders' for whatever reasons.

Recommended, 'yes'.

Bachelorhood, a questionable status for all cases, 'no'.

Wasalaam.
Zeenaeem

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Sunday, August 08, 2004  -  7:36 AM Reply with quote
Dear Saadiamalik

Your quote:

quote:

“I cannot believe that any of Allah's prophets - peace and blessings be upon them - would sacrifice his 'orders' for whatever reasons.”

Unquote

No Prophet sacrificed Allah’s Orders while on their mission. They fulfilled the orders. Jesus (peace be upon him) was taken up by Allah only to be sent back to this world.

While defining bachelorhood, you are the one who cited the examples of Yahya and Eisa (peace be upon them) while Muslims have only to follow Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Without a solid reason, if one remains unmarried, he falls under the category of ignoring the Sunnah of Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) and slips out of his Ummah.

While we follow Al-Qur’aan and the clearly explained message of Allah by Prophet Muhammad, via his hadees quoted in Sahih Bukhari, you cannot invalidate them taking pretexts, and making excuses.

Willful Bachelorhood = Asceticism = Monasticism = Haraam

Peace & Wedded Smiles

Zeenaeem
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Sunday, August 08, 2004  -  12:52 PM Reply with quote
assalamualaykum/peace

i understand that marriage is a life long company of someone and Islamic teachings re: marriage r similar to those re: company
i.e. stay in a good company or live alone

so if one finds a match who cn help one reach the Paradise, must go for it;
however if the person looks like he/she will lead one to hell; shud rather live "solitary"

but i guess its v. rare that in this wide world of our Lord's we do not find someone who cud show us/join us our way to the Eternal Bliss
[may b one cn visit www.singlemuslim.com
/ arabmarriagelink on our renaissance site Links :) www.monthly-renaissance.com]

open to comments :)

(btw hv u decided something yet malix i know ur pc crashed after u posted this query (good timing)but do read all this valuable advice wen u return )

Edited by: hkhan on Sunday, August 08, 2004 12:59 PM
saadiamalik

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, August 08, 2004  -  7:17 PM Reply with quote

Assalaamu Alaikum.

What can I say! We are only required to pay heed to Prophet Muhammad? The Qur'an desires that all prophets be respected equally i.e. believed in equally. As for the laws, yes, in Muhammad, sws, we find the final, refined version. The Sunnahs he demonstrated for us were all Abrahamic Traditions, cleansed by Allah, once and for all, through His last Prophet.

Also, I wonder if you'll simply take more than one woman for marriage at a time, just because it is permitted by the Qur'an.

As for declaring bachelorhood, "haraam", I am afraid I'm completely taken aback. To declare something as 'haraam' which the Qur'an hasn't declared as such, is something serious. I am not treading that road.

Saadia


Edited by: saadiamalik on Sunday, August 08, 2004 7:21 PM
Zeenaeem

SAUDI ARABIA
Posted - Monday, August 09, 2004  -  9:49 AM Reply with quote
Dear Saadiamalik

Your quote:
quote:

“What can I say! We are only required to pay heed to Prophet Muhammad? The Qur'an desires that all prophets be respected equally i.e. believed in equally. As for the laws, yes, in Muhammad, sws, we find the final, refined version. The Sunnahs he demonstrated for us were all Abrahamic Traditions, cleansed by Allah, once and for all, through His last Prophet.”

Unquote

Yes, we are only required to pay heed to Prophet Muhammad, none else. The commands of Al-Qur’aan with regard to equally respecting all prophets, does not in any way supersedes the commands to obey Allah and obey His Prophet Muhammad. Please read the following Verses :

“Say (O Muhammad SAW): “Obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW).” But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers.” (Surah Al-Imran, Chapter-3, Verse-32)

“And obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) that you may obtain mercy.” (Surah Al-Imran, Chapter-3, Verse-132)

“O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.” (Surah An-Nisa, Chapter-4, Verse-59).

“He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed Allah, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a watcher over them.” (Surah An-Nisa, Chapter-4, Verse-80).

“And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (SAW), fears Allah, and keeps his duty (to Him), such are the successful ones.” (Surah An-Noor, Chapter-24, Verse-52).


Hence, obeying Allah and his Messenger becomes “Fard” (obligatory) on a Muslim.

Denial of an obligatory act amounts to disbelief and disbelief is punishable. Any command of Allah via Al-Qur’aan is Obligatory on everyone.

There is no single command in support of bachelorhood or Asceticism or Monasticism. Rather Allah says he did not prescribed Monasticism even on the followers of Eisa Alaihissalaam. But they invented. There is no place for any invention in Islam, because Allah has already completed his Deen.

“….This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion….” (Surah Al-Maidah, Chapter-5, Verse-3)

Regarding marriage and lineage, see the verse below:

“And it is He Who has created man from water, and has appointed for him kindred by blood, and kindred by marriage. And your Lord is Ever All-Powerful to do what He will. (Surah Al-Furqan, Chapter-25, Verse-54).

This is apart from the marriage commands in Surah An-Nisa, Chapter-3, Verse-3 to 28.

Also read the following Verse :

“And marry those among you who are single (i.e. a man who has no wife and the woman who has no husband) and (also marry) the Salihun (pious, fit and capable ones) of your (male) slaves and maid-servants (female slaves). If they be poor, Allah will enrich them out of His Bounty. And Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures’ needs, All-Knowing (about the state of the people). (Surah An-Nur, Chapter-24, Verse-32).

And also this :

“And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His Bounty…” (Surah An-Nur, Chapter-24, Verse-33)

Still do you believe that marriage is not obligatory (Fard) ? And if you remain as a “willful bachelor” practicing, Asceticism, neither obeying Allah, nor his Prophet (peace be upon him) that is not haraam ?

Your quote

quote:

“Also, I wonder if you'll simply take more than one woman for marriage at a time, just because it is permitted by the Qur'an.”

Unquote

Well. Without permission from Al-Qur’aan who will dare to take more than one woman for marriage ? Can anyone dare to take more than 4 ? If yes, he becomes transgressor and transgression is a punishable offence.

The wisdom behind the permission of more than one wife (polygyny) is as follows :

1. Qur’an is the only religious book on the face of the earth that says ‘marry only one’. The context of this phrase is the following verse from Surah Nisa of the Glorious Qur’an: "Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one." [Al-Qur’an 4:3].

Before the Qur’an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them. In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says: "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...." [Al-Qur’an 4:129] . Therefore in Islam the polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to have more than one wife.

Polygyny falls in the middle category of things that are permissible. It cannot be said that a Muslim who has two, three or four wives is a better Muslim as compared to a Muslim who has only one wife.

2. Average life span of females is more than that of males: By nature males and females are born in approximately the same ratio. A female child has more immunity than a male child. A female child can fight the germs and diseases better than the male child. For this reason, during the paediatric age itself there are more deaths among males as compared to the females. During wars, there are more men killed as compared to women. More men die due to accidents and diseases than women. The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers.

3. World female population is more than male population: In USA, women outnumber men by 7.8 million. New York alone has one million more females as compared to the number of males, and of the male population of New York one-third are gays i.e sodomites. The U.S.A as a whole has more than twenty-five million gays. This means that these people do not wish to marry women. Great Britain has four million more females as compared to males. Germany has five million more females as compared to males. Russia has nine million more females than males. God alone knows how many million more females there are in the whole world as compared to males.

4. Restricting each and every man to have only one wife is not practical: Even if every man got married to one woman, there would still be more than thirty million females in U.S.A who would not be able to get husbands (considering that America has twenty five million gays). There would be more than four million females in Great Britain, 5 million females in Germany and nine million females in Russia alone, who would not be able to find a husband. Suppose my sister happens to be one of the unmarried women living in USA, or suppose your sister happens to be one of the unmarried women in USA. The only two options remaining for her are that she either marries a man who already has a wife or becomes public property. There is no other option.

All those who are modest will opt for the first. In Western society, it is common for a man to have mistresses and/or multiple extra-marital affairs, in which case, the woman leads a disgraceful, unprotected life. The same society, however, cannot accept a man having more than one wife, in which women retain their honourable, dignified position in society and lead a protected life. Thus the only two options before a woman who cannot find a husband is to marry a married man or to become public property. Islam prefers giving women the honourable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second.

There are several other reasons, why Islam has permitted limited polygyny, but it is mainly to protect the modesty of women.


Peace & Multiple Smiles

Zeenaeem

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