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Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN
Topic initiated on Thursday, July 29, 2004  -  5:53 AM Reply with quote
Module1: Analysis of the Hadith


Why do you think it is necessary not to accept a hadith unless it meets the criteria ascertained by the scholars of the science of the hadith? Does a Hadith become absolute truth after it is rendered acceptable by the scholars of the science of Hadith?
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, July 29, 2004  -  12:18 PM Reply with quote
Assalam o Alaikum

In my opinion if a hadith is not opposing the Qur'an, Sunnah and common sense then we should accept the hadith. just for example: I have heard that the Hadith about getting knowledge even if u have to go to china is a Da‘if hadith but I don't see any reason that why one should reject this hadith.

As far as second question is concerned, I think that if a Hadith is confirmed that it is saying of Prophet (peace be upon him) or some known act of the Prophet then this becomes absolute truth. The main challenge is to declare some particular hadith that this is a saying / act of the beloved Prophet ( peace be upon him ) & once if it is accepted by all the scholors I think one should consider such a hadith as an absolute truth.

Regards.

Edited by: atifrafi on Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:27 PM
Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, August 02, 2004  -  10:31 AM Reply with quote
Any other comments?
The question now is does individual report after passing the criterion set by the scholars provide infallable and absolute knowledge?
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, August 02, 2004  -  11:31 AM Reply with quote
Sir, can you please explain the question a little bit more. Currently I am unable to understand the question.

Regards
Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, August 04, 2004  -  6:43 AM Reply with quote
Suppose a hadith is declared sahih by the scholars and it does not contradict the Qur'an or the Sunnah or the common sense will it be considered absolute truth. In your response you said 'yes.' Most scholars do not hold this view. They think that individual reprots never provide absolute source of knowledge for there are many inherent problems in such a report for example the narrator could not correctly hear the speaker, failed to understand what the speaker meant, or did not know the background of the conversation and ended in misinterpreting the saying, could not retain complete picture and passed on wiht additions and omittion from the account. Therefore, we practice on the facts reported after much analysis for the religion is the most serious concern of a believer. We do not belive that the report is 100% correct and accurate mention of the prophetic saying or act.
Your comments.
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, August 04, 2004  -  7:59 AM Reply with quote
I think that we should accept the hadith which is declared by the scholors and it does not contradict the Qur'an or the Sunnah or the common sense because these are the sayings of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) and being muslim it is impossible that we don't look for the sayings of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him).

If we say that even a hadith is declared sahih by the scholors, that is not an absolute truth, what I think is that we are opening a door of refusing the Ahadith and people like me who don't have much knowledge will start using the Ahadith according to their own understanding which can cause some serious problems in Islam.

Most important, we know ALLAH because the Prophet (peace be upon him) told us so then how can we say that his sayings are not absolute truth provided that is accepted by the scholors specially when the science of accepting or rejecting a hadith is so much developed that there is no need of any change in it.

If the Ahadith are not considered as 100% correct, then what I believe that it will be almost impossible to practice even the basica of Islam and life would become very difficult.

If i am wrong in my opnion, I hope someone will correct me.
jitujaman

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, September 23, 2004  -  2:59 PM Reply with quote
Brother Atif, you write

"I think that we should accept the hadith which is declared by the scholors and it does not contradict the Qur'an or the Sunnah or the common sense"

Is it not an established fact that us as human beings are capable of making the most serious of mistakes? If so, would you then not agree that to accept as absolute truth the narrations of various individuals (who are capable of making mistakes) is contrary to common sense.

On the other hand, if we were to pretend that the Sahih Hadiths are absolute truths only to avoid confusion and misdemeanor amongst muslims, would we not be guilty of the same crime as those who changed the Hadiths and made them up purely to bring people into Islam?

I do not think it is suggested that our Prophet (pbuh) may have made mistakes but rather the narrators.

I agree with the views of the Scholars who do not accept Sahih Hadiths as absolute truth for the reasons mentioned above.
Uthman

AUSTRALIA
Posted - Sunday, September 26, 2004  -  2:04 PM Reply with quote
The scholars do accept the Sahih Mutawatir hadiths as absolute truth though, dont they?

Not Ahad ones though, as you point out. Thats why Ahad hadiths arent not used to as a basis for doctrinal beliefs (aqeedah. But they are acted upon. Correct me if Im wrong.
Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, October 06, 2004  -  8:11 AM Reply with quote
But there is hardly any mutawatur hadith. The term mutawatur is not clear and is subject to difference. One may calaim that there are hundereds of them but when you would come to analyze the report you would find that they are not. Do you any example of mutawaatir hadith?
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, November 20, 2004  -  9:07 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Why do you think it is necessary not to accept a hadith unless it meets the criteria ascertained by the scholars of the science of the hadith? Does a Hadith become absolute truth after it is rendered acceptable by the scholars of the science of Hadith?



Asalam Aalaikum

The Scholars of the Science of Hadith are well versed in their respective field and when they pass a judgment on any hadith it is actually based on their research of the science of Hadith.
But we should always remember ,that no matter how good command Scholars have over the Science of Hadith ,they are human beings afterall and they are prone to commit mistakes.
Iam not questioning the Scholars of the Science of Hadith or their knowledge but what I mean to say is that we should not hold them infallible since human beings are creation of Allah(swt) and except of Allah(swt) no individual on the face of earth is infallible.
If any Scholar accepts any hadith as authentic ,it is not necessary that the hadith will be 100% in harmony with the teachings and directive of the Qur'an.

We should check all the hadiths in the light of Qur'an since Qur'an is the perfect and complete source of guidance for us.

Regards,
Saifonline

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Sunday, November 21, 2004  -  8:11 AM Reply with quote
Assalamu alaikum

Can someone kindly shed some light on "Hadiths-e-Qudsi". I am told that they are sacred in that our Prophet (saw) narrated these Hadiths from Allah (swt).

How did they come about? Were they recorded in writing as and when our Prophet (saw) narrated them?

Can we hold Hadiths-e-Qudsi to be the absolute truth?

Kind Regards
Saif
ibn_yasin

AUSTRALIA
Posted - Sunday, November 21, 2004  -  8:42 PM Reply with quote
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

If all the scholars of hadith have become satisfied that a hadith is sahih then yes it is absolute truth provided of that it does not contradict the Quran in letter or in spirit.

As far as I know "common sense" is not a criteria to judge hadith.

An example of mutawatir hadith is the hadith which states that the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) lifted his hands to his shoulders before he went down to ruku in his salaah.

As for Qudsi hadith these are reported in the collections of hadith like every other hadith and can be found in many collections. These hadith were relevations which were from Allah but not included in the Quran, thus the words were paraphrased by the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam).

In regard to whether hadith qudsi can be regarded as absolute truth, the yes will depend on the classification by the scholars of hadith of each hadith on its merits.

And Allah knows best.
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, November 22, 2004  -  8:20 AM Reply with quote
Asalam Aalaikum

I donot completely agree with Brother
Yasin, he says that common sense is not a critera for judging the hadiths.
I dont understand how could a Scholar pass a reasonable and sound judgment on a hadith without using his common sense.

You should note brother that when we say that common sense is the critera for judging a hadith ,we mean to say that we use our personal knowledge and opinion in the light of Qur'an inorder to judge the position of a hadith.

Regards


Edited by: student1 on Monday, November 22, 2004 8:23 AM
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, November 23, 2004  -  11:30 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Assalamu alaikum

Can someone kindly shed some light on "Hadiths-e-Qudsi". I am told that they are sacred in that our Prophet (saw) narrated these Hadiths from Allah (swt).

How did they come about? Were they recorded in writing as and when our Prophet (saw) narrated them?

Can we hold Hadiths-e-Qudsi to be the absolute truth?

Kind Regards
Saif


Asalam Aalaikum

It is true that collection of Hadith-e-Qudsi is considered as a sacred since Scholars claim that these are also revelations from Allah(swt) but the difference between Qur'an and these hadith is that Qur'an is the revelation from Allah(swt) and it contains His words whereas hadith-e-Qudsi is a revelation from Allah(swt) spoken by the Prophet(pbuh).
As far as the authenticity of Hadith-e-Qudsi is concerned,I cannot comment on it but few questions come in mind about these hadiths.

If these hadiths were verbally expressed by our beloved Prophet(pbuh),does it mean that his companions must have heard and transmitted these hadiths in the exact form as spoken by our Prophet(pbuh)? And what about the others who indirectly heard the Prophet(pbuh) through his companions,how does it prove that the others besides the companions of the Prophet(pbuh)have heard exact words of the Prophet(pbuh)?

I hope my question is clear

Regards,


Edited by: student1 on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 11:36 AM
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, November 23, 2004  -  11:45 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Any other comments?
The question now is does individual report after passing the criterion set by the scholars provide infallable and absolute knowledge?


Asalam Aalaikum

A report after passing the criterion set by the Scholars could only be accepted as absolute and authentic knowledge if it is in harmony with the directives and teachings of the Qur'an and doesnot contradict it.

Regards,
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, November 23, 2004  -  12:02 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Suppose a hadith is declared sahih by the scholars and it does not contradict the Qur'an or the Sunnah or the common sense will it be considered absolute truth. In your response you said 'yes.' Most scholars do not hold this view. They think that individual reprots never provide absolute source of knowledge for there are many inherent problems in such a report for example the narrator could not correctly hear the speaker, failed to understand what the speaker meant, or did not know the background of the conversation and ended in misinterpreting the saying, could not retain complete picture and passed on wiht additions and omittion from the account. Therefore, we practice on the facts reported after much analysis for the religion is the most serious concern of a believer. We do not belive that the report is 100% correct and accurate mention of the prophetic saying or act.
Your comments.


Asalam Aalaikum

I have read your argument and would like to comment on it if you dont mind.
If a hadith passes a criterion set by the Scholars of Hadith and doesnot also contradict the teachings of Qur'an ,then I dont think their should be any room for questioning the authenticity of the hadith, as far as the narrators are concerned, Iam not expert in the Rijal(Knowledge of the narrators of hadith) but what my common sense expresses is that If the hadith passes the criterion set by the Scholars of Hadith and doesnot contradict the Qur'an ,then we should accept it irrespective of whether the narrators who narrated it might have not heard it correctly.
You say that hadiths donot provide absolute knowledge inspite of even passing through the proceedures mentioned above since chain of narrators of hadiths should also be brought into consideration.
If any hadith which is claimed to have a consistent chain of narrators without any break but still contradicts the Qur'an, what would be your opinon about that hadith?

Regards,

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