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Topic initiated on Sunday, November 28, 2010  -  2:23 AM Reply with quote
Islamic History


Posted - Sunday, November 28, 2010  -  6:50 AM Reply with quote
any comment on following research :
(presentation is NOT very impressive and some facts are simple bogus but still there are some valid criticism on muslims historians).


Posted - Monday, November 29, 2010  -  4:06 PM Reply with quote
The pdf seems to have some valid points but it is all mixed up as the author while sticking to the Qur'an also rejects the Sunnah (e.g.- animal sacrifice).

Moreover, judging others' intentions is of little utility- he could have simply said that point X,Y,Z is not tenable, instead of hurling aspersions at Imam Bukhari or anyone else (replacing one emotion of sticking to all ahadith with another extreme of rejecting everything altogether).

Posted - Tuesday, November 30, 2010  -  9:04 AM Reply with quote
I agreed.

Posted - Tuesday, November 30, 2010  -  11:53 AM Reply with quote
Salam, Safimera can you please send the link again or maybe the document in html. because when I download from this link the whole document is cut off from the right side like the pages from the right side are cut off.
I always find Hadith literature very confusing, we accept some Hadith as authentic while reject others as fabrications. Why was Hadith reported or recorded so late? Why are there hardly any Hadith reported by Hazrat Usman Hazrat, AbuBaker and Hazrat Omer the immediate family of the Prophet and so many by Aubu Huraira?
There are so many questions and not many answers.

Posted - Thursday, December 2, 2010  -  5:51 AM Reply with quote

There are so many questions and not many answers.


this is a big test for all of us. No doubt books of hadeeth gave us a big help and insight of islam and life of RasoolAllah (pbuh)....
but same time if you see many divisions and sects have also been emerged because of these books.

Anyway some scholars made very strict rules to sort out false hadeeth and hadeeth which are not false but its interpretation is not what generally percieved from direct wordings.
and one of the big rule for it is " aqal-e-aamaa" (may be english meaning=common sense).

but if anybody tries to do say something against any hadeeth meaning (not against hadeeth, only against its interpretation)....then he/she gets bombardment from other scholars "oh! u r greedy...you want easy life...u r selling your imaan for easy life etc etc".

Regarding authenticity, On one occasion I read Mr Ghamdi did the same (accepted hadeeth without explaining the daleel). In his book "meezaan"
, one hadees he mentioned correct and authentic but said it is for her special case only??
According to hadees RasoolAllah (pbuh) advised one sahabia to breastfeed her adult ghulaam in order to make her son.

I wonder why this hadees:

1) cannot be rejected on the basis of "aqal-e-aamaa"
2) may be some additional wordings of RasoolAllah (pbuh) had been missed or forgot by raawi.
3) may be the advice was in a negative meaning....
example: it is common to say that "u will get it over my dead body" which means I would never give it to you..it does not mean that you have to kill me to take it....so in the same way may be RasoolAllah (pbuh) said that in that case you have to breastfeed him, which is against the norms of islam, society and diginity of woman, so just forget about it.....we do not have any history record that after this saying of RasooAllah(pbuh) what she did or she stopped thinking to make him his son....

so sometimes scholars like Mr Ghamdi also kept silence on the issue instead of explaining on basis of daleel.

anyway down is the link....but if still you would not get it....then just goto google , write "true history of islam , shabbir ahmed"...u will get the PDF file.


Edited by: safimera on Thursday, December 02, 2010 5:58 AM

Posted - Thursday, December 2, 2010  -  5:14 PM Reply with quote
Thank you Safimera the link did open properly, I am still going through the document will comment on it later.
When there are so many fabricated Hadiths and some hadiths which contradict each other and also hadiths which instruct the companions not to record his words, so doesn't it create confusion in one's mind what to believe and what to reject? I know you are only supposed to believe the Hadith which supports what has been said in the Quran. Wassalam

Posted - Saturday, December 4, 2010  -  9:30 AM Reply with quote
Salam, thank you again safimera for posting this book o extract of a book. It is very interesting and if all is true then it would be a "paradigm shift". According to Shabbir Ahmad we have made religion ritualistic and that too because of Islamic history. To some extent he is correct we have neglected to keep the Quran in the forefront and given the message to the masses it cannot be understood by all.
" the author while sticking to the Qur'an also rejects the Sunnah (e.g.- animal sacrifice). " Quranicpeace can you please explain what you mean.

Posted - Sunday, December 5, 2010  -  2:52 AM Reply with quote


Quranicpeace can you please explain what you mean.

I do not understand , by "what you mean"????

can you explain what u want to ask me???

This book has also many flaws as I mentioned earlier.
My point about the qoutes of great religious leaders about islamic history written by islamic historian.
And how we should be careful in accepting any hadees on the basis of "aqal-e aamaa".

We insist on authenticity of RAAWEES only...this is not fair.

what is matter inside, that should be coincide with Quran.

You and me cannot decide such thing but in my view, we as common people should give feedback to scholars that these are the circumstances, these are the ground realities and now tell us what could be interpretation of this hadees in present situation.

many many hadees were situational of that time which are authentic but need interpretation according to present scenario.
We common man has right to push scholars to get some solution for the benefits of umma..this is islam...to create facilitation and easiness as much as possible within the islamic rules.

Some people do not understand the importance of bringing relaxation and easiness in religion.

It happened in RasoolAllah (pbuh) and sahaba (r) time as well:

the benefit is: you can be more productive in other important part of the society.

for example in war qasar salaat allowed, to make more concentration in war related issues.

Hazrat Umer (r) stopped hadd of thief for almost 2 yrs in the time of famine....

so in present time scholars need to take some bold decisions within islamic rules about:
woman issues, media, music, relationship with non-muslims etc etc

Posted - Sunday, December 5, 2010  -  9:16 AM Reply with quote
Wassalam Safimera, I am sorry the last sentence was meant for quranicpeace the participant I probably didn't explain it properly who I was addressing the query.

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