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Posted - Monday, November 20, 2006  -  12:01 PM Reply with quote
if you dont agree with hadiths marwan thats your choice but dont sit their and insult people who do you have a choice as do we. this does not make you superior to anyone if you dont understand something as simple as that then why should we listen to you, make your point without referring to people who belive in hadiths as kafir and liars. beliveing in hadiths does not mean we worship Mohammed PBUH, like chriatians and rabbis get of your high horse and look around. you dont even know the difference between respect and worship look it up in a dictionary and quit genralising. as you dont have aleg to stand on.

Posted - Monday, November 20, 2006  -  12:03 PM Reply with quote
are you a follower of kalipha rasheed, if the answer is in affirmative that would explain your behaviour, after all isnt he the man to claim he was a messenger...that in my books says it all.

Posted - Monday, November 20, 2006  -  3:02 PM Reply with quote
i have no connection with rashad khalifa and disrespect him for trying to remove two ayahs etc..

I am not trying to disrespect you all, but instead wish to save you from shirk.


Posted - Monday, November 20, 2006  -  5:03 PM Reply with quote
Quote of perv1:
...hadith...have continuously damaged Islam for the last 1200 years.

My Brother perv1, if the Muslims have split themselves into groups by following the Ahaadeeth, then it's their fault. Stop blaming the Ahaadeeth for that.
Why isn't anyone listening to aboosait? He's making a very valid point! I agree with you perv; the Ahaadeeth have been fabricated, but not all!! There are numerous Ahaadeeth that can easily be accepted as the actual words of the Holy Prophet (SAW). Besides, there are so many criteria for judging the authenticity of every Hadeeth that you just can't call them fabricated. Have you read about the life of Imam Bukhari? Do you have any idea at all how much care he took in making sure that he was writing down an authentic Hadeeth? Not only him, there were several other Muhaddithoon who were very particular in making sure that every Hadeeth was authentic. Any Hadeeth in which there was a minute doubt was rejected. Six criteria, on top of that, six Muhaddithoon who took every possible measure to ensure the Ahaadeeth's authenticity---now what would be the probability of a single Hadeeth being wrong?---I guess, 1/6 multiplied by 1/6, which makes it 1/36, which makes it 2.8%!! That's just the probability of one Hadeeth being wrong, and here, you're talking about thousands of them!

Wassalaam, Wallaahu A'lam.

Posted - Tuesday, November 21, 2006  -  3:49 AM Reply with quote
This discussion has atleast mislead me.Iam a new convert to Islam (only a month old). I rejected my parental faith Hinduism on the grounds of it being pagan and polytheist.Intially when i read Marwan's article i was bit angry towards Marwan. But it seems that she is right in many contexts.I remember Mr.Owais QAdri singing a naat ''Tera Khawa Me Tere Geet Gawa Ya Rasool ALLah " and thousands enjoying his melodious voice. But our sustainer is ALllah and not Prophet(SAW).I would have accepted Islam much before but some controversial Hadiths delayed my approach.A scholar than asked me to stick to only holy Quran and nothing else. Respect Prophet should to the extent that Allah's right of regard is not violated.The only way to God is Islam.
so simple and straight so please do not contaminate it,you yourself the followers of Deen. The beauty of Islam is submission To the only creater of this universe. This fragrance of monoethism is no where else, except in Islamic world.

Posted - Tuesday, November 21, 2006  -  4:16 AM Reply with quote

Yes, please stick to the holy Qur'an now. Once you have gained more knowledge, then you can delve into hadith and judge for yourself. It is dangerous area for those without proper knowledge. Ignorant Muslims use hadith without knowing what they are doing.

The religion of Allah is simple enough, worship and pay gratitude to your Creator, the one and only, and be nice to others.

In the holy Qur'an, when the word 'hadith' is mentioned in Arabic, it translates to 'story'. And that is exactly what most of these hadith are - mere stories. Unless I can ascertain that it is authentic, I by default reject it. And I do not have enough knowledge to ascertain the authenticity of a hadith attributed to the prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.). Therefore I don't bother with the hadith at all. There is enough in the Quran to learn first.

Posted - Tuesday, November 21, 2006  -  8:46 AM Reply with quote
Brother sachin, would you mind contacting me by e-mail, I am also from India, let us see if I can share something with you.

Edited by: askhalifa on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:57 PM

Posted - Tuesday, November 21, 2006  -  11:13 AM Reply with quote
TextSalam, Brother OOsman
You are absolutely correct. I have stick to Holy Quran,though i see no problems in accepting Hadiths which are productive towards Tawheed ,ethics , or conduct etc.We can use our brain on controversial Hadiths. In fact first i was told to accept all Hadiths equally as Holy Quran.But now i have come to know that controversial Hadiths is also an issue.

Posted - Tuesday, November 21, 2006  -  11:20 AM Reply with quote
excellent sachin,
completely agree with you.


Posted - Tuesday, November 21, 2006  -  11:24 AM Reply with quote
salaam brother sachin, forstl welcome to the beautiful religion of islam. i would agree with brother oosman being a new convert its better for you to study the Quran before getting into anything eles. what i would like to point out is how you deal with hadiths is upto the individual, whoever told you to except hadiths equally to the Quran sharif is wrong nothing can be held equally to the Quran as it is the only true and protected scripture we have. hadiths will make sense to you once you have more knowledge through the quran, people rely on hadiths which is wrong, but to use one as a refrence book is fine. like i said its upto the individual. brother marwan genralises alot he assumes everyone who respects the Prophet PBUH worships him PBUH, two different things here. alot do go OTT regarding the Prophet PBUH but not all and marwan does not get that. so please let nothing confuse yoiu study the Quran first and tackle hadiths after.

Posted - Tuesday, November 21, 2006  -  2:12 PM Reply with quote
Thanks to Sis Sahira and brother Raushan and OOsman for valuable speaks.I think that the problem in subcontinent is not reading of Holy Quran with understanding.Allah clearly says in his final revelation about code of conduct towards Prophets including Muhammad(SAW).That is to say problem only will arise if a Surah is not conducive to a mind in meaning. Just reciting the verses of Holy Quran will also give Sabbab but its applicablity in daily life will multiply the sabbab. And i think Muslims in subcontinent are not idolaters or kafirs as said by Marwan, rather they are more emotional towards Muhammad(SAW) as he is seal of all Prophets. There will be never confusion regarding Adam(PBUM) ,Ibrahim(PBUH) or any other Prophet none of them was revealed with a scripture as a final verdict. Quran was revealed to Muhammad(SAW) for all the humanbeings and is the last revelation till Qayamat. So its natural that the regard for the Prophet(PBUM) on which final revelation came is very high . But it is not justification for those who violate the Tawheed, may be for Prophet(SAW).

Posted - Wednesday, November 22, 2006  -  3:41 AM Reply with quote
Brother Sachin, Assalam Alikum

Brother there is the link bellow of a website which have the Tafheemul Quran(Translation and detailed explanation of Quran by Mualana Maudoodi Sahib).I find it very good to understand the Quran.It has given the background in which the revelations used to come.This is here both in English and Urdu.

Once you will open the link,you will find it beneath the picture of Pakistan Precident Pervez Musharaff.


Posted - Wednesday, November 22, 2006  -  10:39 AM Reply with quote
The Quranic Teachings

This is a nice site...

Posted - Wednesday, November 22, 2006  -  6:30 PM Reply with quote
Asalam Aalaikum,

I agree with the brother and a time is near when muslims will go to an extreme of deviation and except for compromising on Tawheed and the finality of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh), their is almost every aspect of Islam where muslims become extremist.

You might be surprized to know that their is a group of muslim religious people that doesnot hug you when they meet you because according to their knowledge and understanding when we hug each other ,our bad deeds are transferred from 1 person to another.
Now what can you say about such ignorance and stupidity.
Neither muslims try to understand Islam nor the concept of Jihad ,in their view "Jihad" only means to raise your weapon and start attacking the non-muslims.
Unfortunately Pakistan has become a hub of such secterianism and in the same area the azan is given on different timings in the mosque.

Take the example of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh), alhamdulilah every muslim whether religious or non-religious has a great place in his or her heart for him and believes in him but their is a group in religious muslims that claims Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) to be created from a noor.

They are the ones who claim that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is still alive and listens to our calls and answers them. And as far as I understand to make Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) alive they have used the term"noor" to describe him since noor is ever lasting.
They also claim that this entire Universe was created only for him.
Neither Qur'an supports such statement nor I think their is any hadith that supports this claim.

Another logical flaw of this claim is that if Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was created from a noor ,then how come he was born because noor is everlasting just like light.

If we muslims admit our mistakes and accept our ignorance then I am pretty sure that Allah(swt) will help them understand Islam because Allah(swt) doesnot guide or love those who are arrogant and donot want to admit their mistakes.

Allah loves open minded and sensible people.

Posted - Wednesday, November 22, 2006  -  9:25 PM Reply with quote
salaam student1 first thanks for your input i would like to say i agree with most od what you said, yes there are people who belive the Prophet PBUH was made from noor but like you said in your statement you said GROUP which means minority from a majority, and that has been my argument from the start of this thread.
like brother sachin said some people feel very emotional towards the seal of all Prophets PBUH, and if these people are illeterate then they will belive anything that is told to them through no fault of their own.
its like grave worshippers its a shirk yet is common practice in some countries....but does that make them a majority? does that mean whole of islam is turning into Muhammadism, i think not.
any intelligent muslim with right knowledge will appreciate that Prophet Mohammed PBUH deserves the upmost respect, he PBUH is an example of the best human being for all muslims to follow and giving him PBUH this respect does not mean we associate him PBUH with Allah SWT, nor does this mean people worship him PBUH. weather you follow hadiths or not even through out the Quran sharif the Prophet PBUH has been told by Allah SWT that tll your ummah, tell your people, let your people know ect ect ect He PBUH was used as a mean for Allah SWT to get the message to us, hence the last messenger PBUH so what is wrong with following in his PBUH'S example? what is wrong to respect the best example of human kind? what is wrong with following islam by using an example?.
we willalways get extremists whatever religion, race,or culture, we ask the west not to judge us and our religion by the suicide bombers who destroy innocent lives in the name of jihad and islam, yet we judge each other by the work of few extremists, some sects, and illeterate, unknowledgable people. and ask ourselves because of this is thw whole of islam becoming Mohammadism....how sad.

Posted - Wednesday, November 22, 2006  -  10:42 PM Reply with quote
brother marwaan i have a few questions for you, for someone who does not belive in tha hdiths
1.do you read namaaz....if so where in the quran and i want quotes please does it tell you how to read the full namaaz?,what actions to do when and whilst reading what,im sure you must have got this from the quran as you dont follow hadiths.,also where does it tell you again i want quotes how many rakats to read for each namaaz. also where in the Quran does it tell you how to do abultion, and exactly how many times are we suppose to wash face, nose, ears arma feet?and in what order
2. where in the Quran sharif does it tell us the ritulas of umrah and hajj again give me quotes explaining everything we have to do at hajj which is compulsory for us to achieve completeing hajj like,stoneing shaitaan how many times,how many times do we go round Kaba, how many times do we run from mount Saffah to mount Marwah. how much qurabani and what to give. what to wear for hajj, what ziarats to do.please give fill quotes of verses and pages.
3. zakat is compulsory.. again with quotes how much do we pay what is zakat compulsory on, who does not have to pay zakat.

Edited by: sahira on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 10:44 PM

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