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Topic initiated on Thursday, October 5, 2006  -  5:00 PM Reply with quote
Where are muslims mistaken?

Asalam Aalaikum,

I have seen many times muslims being targetted at every point and even in this critical situation where muslims are under attack every where, still people question muslims.

Is it true that muslims are also responsible for what is happening to them?

I would like to list down some reasons which are the causes of the disaster and downfall of the muslims and please do give your comments on it.

1) Lack of proper and great attitude

2) Lack of Disipline

3) Lack of love for work

4) Lack of Punctuality and this is because Muslims especially Pakistanis donot give value to time.

5)Lack of sincereity in work or any other matters. (I believe not all muslims are like that).

6) Lack of organization (muslims are mostly found unorganized unlike westerns who are organized and well mannered).

7) Lack of tolerance (muslims are unfortunately found intolerant and donot tolerate if a non-muslim questions them about Islam where as beloved Prophet(pbuh) use to listen to criticisms on Islam and tried to clarify their misconceptions).

8) Proudness and self honor where as we find that Americans and Canadians are very nice and donot have proudness in them. They do all their work from their own hands unlike muslims who leave every thing on servants.

I hope people will give their comments.

Posted - Thursday, October 5, 2006  -  5:10 PM Reply with quote
I think it is mostly true. Most of the calamities that befall on us are due to our own actions or inactions and our attitudes. Whereas some instances may be due to Allah punishing us or testing us, but it is not something you can attribute to Allah without knowledge.

I just read this yesterday in sura Al-Raad (the thunder)

13.11 Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition

Posted - Thursday, October 5, 2006  -  9:12 PM Reply with quote

Asalam Aalaikum,

Thank you brother for quoting this verse of Qur'an, you took the words out of my mouth.

If muslims donot wish to change their condition, then definitely Allah(swt) will also not help them because God helps those who help themselves.

You can see how Westerns who were once the most ignorant people on the face of earth 1000s of years ago have changed themselves and have learned many good things from muslims of the medival times and now see the huge difference between them and us.

They had interest and curiosity to become good people and Allah(swt) definitely helped them because Allah(swt) has not just said that He will change the condition of muslims, He will change the condition of any nation if that nation tries.

Let me give you a simple example brother, I have lived in LA California during my teenage and I have seen several good things in them that unfortunately I havent seen in muslims.

I have noticed that they have curiosity to learn good things and when ever they find out that they have some kind of defect, they try to eliminate it unlike muslims who donot consider nasihat as something for their own benefits.

And other thing that I have noticed in them is that they donot have complex and proudness that unfortunately I have seen in muslims.
If you tell them to sit on a muddy region or on side walk ,they will sit their unlike our people who will never sit on the side walk because they are more concerned about their clothes geting dirty.

I hope these experiences of mine donot hurt you but facts are facts, I know many of the muslims in this forum will get hurt from my statement but this is something true.

I have seen myself how Islam is spreading in USA and on every bench over their ,I have seen written "Come to Islam , Come to truth".

Unfortunately in Muslim Countries I have only seen people watching cable channels and dishes.

And you will see brother that a time will come when everything will be opposite, the muslims in muslim countries will be ignorant about Islam and people in West who are already embracing Islam will get Gods mercy and blessings.

Do u agree with me.

Posted - Saturday, October 7, 2006  -  2:26 PM Reply with quote
I agree, and I think that time is already here where Muslims in non-Muslim countries have more of a desire to learn about Islam than Muslims in Muslim countries. Also the openness in the Western societies encourages the reasoning and quesitioning that is required to understand Islam. In the Muslim countries all avenues to reasoning and thinking are shut, anyone quesitioning Islam is branded a heretic and starts getting death threats.

Posted - Saturday, October 7, 2006  -  4:50 PM Reply with quote
I agree with you, but what is the solution of such illiteracy that exists in the Muslim Ummah? In muslim countries I have only seen people praying namaz, fasting and reading Qur'an as a ritual and they donot even have the basic knowledge of Islam.

I am not saying that I am expert over Islamic Literature alhamdulilah their are many muslims out there who are pious,knowledgable and religious unlike me but what I want to say is that I have understood Islam better over there then in Pakistan and I think If I hadnt been to USA, then I would be just like an ordinary muslim who would be praticing Islam as a culture and ritual.

You would be surprized to know that one of my closest friend lives in Canada for 5 years and when I asked him "How did you find Canada"? He replied by saying that "Canada is the best place because this is the place where I have come to know what true Islam is".

He mashallah graduated from York Univ and has a beard and tries to apply the Islamic teachings in his life over there and he is mashallah working in a respectable organization.

Posted - Saturday, October 7, 2006  -  9:21 PM Reply with quote
I do not know the answer

Posted - Tuesday, October 10, 2006  -  7:39 AM Reply with quote
In my opinion the reasons are multifactorial.It is very true that muslims are more conscious of religion in a non muslim country. Here the distinction is clear.you either practise religion or not.Plus you have the opportunity to see the effects of lack of religion. The contrast and comparison helps.

One problem that we have in a muslim country is that you are born in an Islamic country, thus you take it for granted.The second problem that is rife in Pakistan is that the importance of religion has greatly reduced. Do any rich or middle class educated parents would like to choose for their children to become a scholar of religion or a doctor or engineer.

The mosques are sources of religion in many places. Who becomes the imam. In many cases, they are orphans or children from poor backgrounds.They are sometimes forced into the choice rather than choosing by heart.They have fixed and rigid knowledge of religion, they do not have the necessary exposure to explain by contrasting with other religions. They do not encourage open minded questions or discussions.

I will also put blame on parents. they must encourage a create an environment at home that depicts the importance of religion.

The schools must encourgae to promote moral ettiquettes and the ethos of religion, just learning verses of teh QUr'an by heart is not enough.

Lastly, in non muslim countries, as I have experienced, the realisation towards religion, becomes more when people who have settled here have children that grow up.They then realise that they are becoming like the average other children in society, particularly those who have teenage girls, suddenly realise the implicatons of western society.

Posted - Tuesday, October 10, 2006  -  8:11 AM Reply with quote
Iwould like to add, that this does not mean that we do not have sincere and God feraing people, like the brother's friend in Canada. Ma'Ashallah , there are some very knowledgable and practicing people.

Muslims need to understand that Islam is not about saying namaz 5 times daily and fasting in the month of Ramadan.Every minute of our life and every action and thought is accountable. We are muslims 24/7 and must keep that in mind.

I feel that when I was growing up I was encouraged to say namaz, without being explained why? Thus I would say namaz because of fear of my father or as a social and cultural act. Until we make people realise the true essence and ethos of realisation the understanding remains only skin dep and never happens from heart

Posted - Tuesday, October 10, 2006  -  3:32 PM Reply with quote
Asslamualaikum. Since Muslims follow ISlam and so Shaytan (devil) has only target to divert muslims from Allah's way to devil's way. Non muslim are well organized in their work or society that's because they already follow the way against Allah. Shaytan does not waste time to divert them since non muslim help shaytan by telling and doing everything against Islam.

the main point is Muslim should learn how to strongly hold Allah in chest (Iman) and try to understand what's shaytan goal...............Every good deeds coming from Allah and All of the bad deeds coming from Shaytan. Obviously only Muslim people would be suffered from Shaytan fitnah but not the nonmuslims. That's why we can see the good organized things in nonmuslims and they never said ''Islam is a authenticate religion. Prophet Mohammad (SAW) is the end phrophet, Quran is Allah's document.'' So they is no way that nonmuslim suffer by Shaytan.

However in developing country like Europe, Canada, US, Nonmuslim are so happy on every friday start their evening and week end celebrate weekend with alcohol, pub party, sleeping together (not knowing each other). These things make them cool and so the rest of days in week they work without perfroming relegious duty. Becuase their relegion doesn't say anythingelse compulsory. well most of them doesn't beleive in relegion.

Where as Muslims do their halal job, say 5x times prayers and spend time with their family. Now shaytan disturb here by encouraging muslim, don't think about so much about hala job, tell lie it doesn't matter, don't maintain timing............... no need to say salah now......................Family is not important, see lot of funny stuff out there to enjoy, enjoy life..........

See this is the things come from Shaytan. So Muslim should learn how to love Allah and obey Allah's order and should fight (jehad ownself) against Shaytan, kick the Shaytan out of one's life and InshaAllah muslim be happy in the eternal life by staying in Jannah.

Posted - Tuesday, October 10, 2006  -  7:23 PM Reply with quote
I accept what you ae saying, but Muslims have been told that this life is a test.Allah has said in the Qur'an that we will not be given Paradise and we will have to earn by our actions.

If we compare ourselves to what difficulties the muslims suffered in the past, we have very little to complain about.

Whilst your picture of non muslims is correct, I would add, in my experience, no one has ever rediculed my faith, they invariably show respect towards me.

This inspite of all the negative publicity the so called muslims are bringing towards Islam.

I think muslims should also take responsibility for their actions, belief and attitude.We cannot blame satan for our bad deeds. Satan can suggest but it is the person who carries out the action.

It is our reponsibility to choose the right circle of friends,to work on our Imaan and to join an organisation if possible. Improve our imaan and knowledge and be true muslims in speech and actions. If living abroad we must be good ambassadors of our faith.

I recently met a male nurse who is a white british and he has converted to Islam. I asked him what promted him to ebcome a muslim. He replied th attitude of muslim doctors in his hospital, made him interested in Islam, They wer epolite to pts, punctual, soft spoken and hard working, he got closer to them and got interested in their faith, then he asked questions about Islam and read the Qur'an, he is now a practising muslim. This should be our way too.

Posted - Tuesday, October 10, 2006  -  8:59 PM Reply with quote
This is reply to lubnayasmin,

I think it is wrong to assume that shaitan does not waste his time on non-Muslims because they are already diverted to the wrong path. If you say this to a non-Muslim, you will cause him/her much offence, besides it is not true.

Please state your reference or proof of such a wrong statement.

And besides, there are many among non-Muslims who do believe in Allah. The criteria for entering Paradise is to accept Allah and do righteous deeds. That is the deen of Allah. No other deen will be accepted.

Posted - Wednesday, October 11, 2006  -  6:09 AM Reply with quote
agree u ..oosman

Posted - Wednesday, October 11, 2006  -  8:42 AM Reply with quote
assalamualaikum. everybody has different opinions through understanding in different way which obviously I respect.

See I am living in Sweden more than 5 years. Sweden is relegious free country and people has right to speak anything. As a muslim I follow Islam everywhere and try to be Mumin day by day. From the day I put step in Sweden till then, I am hearing everyday either through Joking or just talking ''the relegious things I am doing personal all sorts of reticulous things which has no meaning for example Hejab, 3x prayers in working places fasting and .........after performing HAjj some of collegues make jokes about my Hajj which indicate Hajj is extreamly reticulous...................according to those jokes......They laugh and kick my relegion.............I have not mention lot of things here which is not necessary I think. above though I never argue (never open my mouth and always keep silent about my relegion) in my life with non muslims..........because I beleive they are Summon, bukmoon, fahum layargeewoon................Besides my work I always hear Quran where I found Allah said the same things what nonmuslims approach against Islam.

The major point non muslims pretend respect but is it true they realy respect........? I am sure Allah know best.

I can see Shaytan who try to inspire me to get angry (anger which is fire and fire means Shaytan). I practice Islam to be Mumin which is my first ambition and being a muslims certainly I have to seat for examination every single moment and Allah InshaAllah help me to pass it. Obviously Shaytan has the power to get in my blood stream and I (Ashraful maklukaat) try to develop antibody against Shaytan epitope and InshaAllah I will be a mumin.

Posted - Wednesday, October 11, 2006  -  9:52 AM Reply with quote
##From the day I put step in Sweden till then, I am hearing everyday either through Joking or just talking ''the relegious things .. Hejab, 3x prayers .... fasting ...jokes about my Hajj ...and kick my relegion... I never argue (never open my mouth and always keep silent about my relegion) in my life with non muslims..........because I beleive they are Summon, bukmoon, fahum layargeewoon................Besides my work I always hear Quran where I found Allah said the same things ...what nonmuslims approach against Islam###

Assalam alikum sister,

I may be wrong but let me suggest you to see the things from a different prospective.You are free to keep it aside if not satisfied.

These comments and jokes about namaz,roza,Hajj or any thing about Islam are actually hidden questions asked to you in the form of sarcasm.

Thanks to Almighty Who has given you a chance to make a clarification before them ,by plainly telling them what Islam is all about .

You can say a peson is confirmed deaf only when you tried to convey him something but he didnt listen.

The same is true for bukmoon, fahum layargeewoon.

I am sure you must have gone through these verses while hearing Quran.

why should we invite them?

SHAKIR: And most surely you invite them to a right way.

YUSUFALI: Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance

YUSUFALI: Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity.

YUSUFALI: Say thou: "This is my way: I do invite unto Allah,- on evidence clear as the seeing with one's eyes,- I and whoever follows me. Glory to Allah! and never will I join gods with Allah!"

YUSUFALI: When some of them said: "Why do ye preach to a people whom Allah will destroy or visit with a terrible punishment?"- said the preachers:" To discharge our duty to your Lord, and perchance they may fear Him."

Assurance from Allah:

3.039 SHAKIR: Those who deliver the messages of Allah and fear Him, and do not fear any one but Allah; and Allah is sufficient to take account.

Its not our concern how they respond to the call:

YUSUFALI: "And if ye reject (the Message), so did generations before you: and the duty of the messenger is only to preach publicly (and clearly)."
YUSUFALI: But if they turn away, thy duty is only to preach the clear Message.
YUSUFALI: If thou callest them to guidance, they hear not. Thou wilt see them looking at thee, but they see not.

they may reply to this extent:
YUSUFALI: They say: "Our hearts are under veils, (concealed) from that to which thou dost invite us, and in our ears in a deafness, and between us and thee is a screen: so do thou (what thou wilt); for us, we shall do (what we will!)"

and the height of the sense of well wishing of the people is explained here:
YUSUFALI: It was said: "Enter thou the Garden." He said: "Ah me! Would that my People knew (what I know)!-

Posted - Wednesday, October 11, 2006  -  12:21 PM Reply with quote
Assalamualaikum. Rauson brother SubhanAllah for your suggestion, see this suggestions come from Allah and you are in the middle between us.

With the mercy of Allah, I will tell you my experience on 8th october 2006 evening. I never go to dinner party except official conference. One of collegue from china is gona to leave by october and she was requesting me to attend the dinner at her place. I refused her politely and even though she requested me again. Then I told her that I don't eat pork, or alcohol made food neither drink alcohol. She knew and told me she will make special food for me. Anyway the pary started at 18.30 and and I had been there at 18.45 since I said her it would be late that's because I have to do Iftar, prayers at my home and Also told her that I have to leave by 20.00 from the dinner party.

We were 10 people in the dinner party, 1. the dinner start with alcohol cheers and I have not done it.
2. I asked her which are the items are cooked of pork and alcohol and I can not take those. She was showing me those and told me that she made chicken and vegetable for me. I eat vegetable and rice but not the chicken. then she was asking me why are you not eating chicken? I replied its not halal for me.

Now from one corner point till another conrner in the table, one by one asking me questions and they are all laughing when questioning.

Why muslim behave strange?
Your god made discrimination why?
Since you cover you body, we are not , are we bad...........?
Since we drink alcohol and eat pork are we bad................?
isn't it reticoulous the whole ramadan you spend time in the mosque from 20.00-22.30? what's the use of that?
we will go to hell since we are not doing this..........?
see your god................
what do you do in the mosque some kind of physical exercise or meditation............
do you wake up middle of the night..........
only your book well documented from your god..............
You haven't wishes us by cheering with alcohol...........do you think its decent..............strange strange...............

This is the experience which I faced first time when I participated someone's dinner party only for 1.30h

What I did? I got up by 20.00 and straight went to mosque and perform Isha and khatme Tarawee and cry.

If someone will interest to hear about Islam ofcourse InshAllah I will give Dawah. but what if someone make jokes and question as our phrophet Mohammad (SAW) faced................Our prophet did not clarify them.............rather pray to Allah for the light and forgiveness.

Posted - Wednesday, October 11, 2006  -  1:12 PM Reply with quote
you are highly sensitive,i suppose..

All these questions from your colleagues are nothing but reflection of a non serious immature brain..

one should think answers of these question whenever alone..and pray Allah to give him power to response in most reasonable manner..
widening the area of study will be helpful..

May Allah give you more courage

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