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isfi22

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, October 16, 2010  -  3:01 PM Reply with quote
Oh, nice topic. I m interested and will probably participate in it. Oh my Lord help and guide me... Aameen.
Sanwal

INDIA
Posted - Sunday, October 17, 2010  -  12:02 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Gradually the only role left for the Quran was that it was read without being understood or understood without being read.

&
quote:

one other reason for Taqlid is that people nowadays are looking for shortcuts in their lives and an easy way out for everything.

Agreed…
quote:

in short, if you think islam is here to solve your worldly problems, then u r wrong,,....

How doesn't Islam solve our worldly problems?
saba2
Moderator

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, October 17, 2010  -  1:45 PM Reply with quote
rubayee I hope you found our replies helpful please feel free to add comments or ask questions if you have any.
good question Sanwal, Safimera how dosen't Islam solve our worldly problems.?
safimera

CANADA
Posted - Wednesday, October 20, 2010  -  7:32 PM Reply with quote
salam

if you read again what I said:::

I never said that Islam does not solve the worldly problems!!!!

I said Islam is not here to solve the worldly problem.....Islam is here to make you eligible for Jannah by purifying you according to your abilities.......BUT yes!!if majority would act according to islam, it is a by-product or extra bonus for muslims that their worldly problem also would be solved.....but it is not must everytime...

i am sorry for my english;;ooops......
but let me repeat ;;;;

Islam is not here to solve our worldly problem....it is here for our AKHIRAH only ....
but it has such capability or its rules and teachings are so good that your worldly problem could also be solved...

God knows better...

Edited by: safimera on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 7:37 PM
saba2
Moderator

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, October 23, 2010  -  3:51 AM Reply with quote
you are right safimera you did not say it wasn't meant for our worldly problems.
To me it makes more sense the other way round 'solve worldly problems using Islamic principles and guidance you will automatically be eligible for jannah.'So Isfi what do you say?
I feel the problem with us is when we want an Islamic reform we want to turn the clock, modern invention , scientific progress and modern education has to stop, somehow we feel the guidance can only be applied if we create the same circumstances. What do you think? Aslam if you are still around and other participants who were initially in this discussion want to comment.
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, October 25, 2010  -  12:44 AM Reply with quote
See an Article in Urdu
http://al-mawrid.org/pages/dl.php?book_id=84
saba2
Moderator

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, October 26, 2010  -  4:09 PM Reply with quote
Nice to hear from you Ibrahim sahab very informative articles how many of us are able to balance our lives? On top of that we have no basic principles of right and wrong anything and everything goes.
rubayee

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, October 26, 2010  -  6:46 PM Reply with quote
safimera CANADA
islam (or previously other true religions as christianity, judism, ibrahamic etc) IS HERE FOR YOUR LIFE AFTER DEATH....
TO MAKE YOU SO GOOD MORALLY THAT YOU ARE ELIGIBLE TO LIVE IN HEAVEN....WHICH IS FAR BETTER THAN THIS WORLD...
(how do you know that??????)

God knows BEST
----------------------------------------------------
saba2ModeratorPAKISTAN

Saba
I am happy to hear your thoughts,the problem with you is you never had any practical experience of Islam and the human nature.
I want you and others to think on following questions
I am sick of mullas.
why immediately after Rasoolullah's death there was confrontation between people out side His home?
why since Rasulullah saw, this never has been settled untill yet (if we believe that this religion is IMMORTAL and is from CREATOR)why this religion always need human support, why this religion need a leader, without a leader this religion never works well in the whole world.
why we the muslims need a leadership ? like Muhammad saw? since His death we are not united.
if you say that we lack the real emotions for our religion than if emotions have to work than where is the immortality and grace of the religion?
these emotions if you use and convert yourself into lets say christianism or hinduism, that will also work in same way.same feelings.
what do you think about americans now adays or jews, are they stupids? or uneducated? they are more educated than us the muslims, why do they do not come to islam? why they are gummedup with thier religions? if we believe that their religions are not from GOD,they behave the same way the way we do , the emotions, i believe they follow their emotions lesser than us, even they know about our religion a bit ,i mean they have read our Quran but we did not read their Book, even than why they dont follow islam?
i believe we all humans are being gummed up with the emotions and limitations,because there is punishment within the religion if someone want to change his or her religion, why the REAL religion need this????? why?
wht if a human who is engaged in worldly things to have better life for himself for his wife for his children goes wrong abit and he gets threats of punishment? i know punishment is also required for a system but why our religion is sooooo strict , that we cant even change our postures?
there was a time before that if someone read any book related to other religion he was seriously criticised,
i heard about the shetani ayaat, I believe NO ONE has right to write anythind stupid against any religion but what did we do? just a emotional statement? and book was banned in islamic societies, we never wrote anything inresponse to that book. what we are afraid of? ??? if we believe that our religion is immortal than why we are afraid?
we do not know about life after death but since it is mentioned in Qoran, we have to believe in it, but this life is also a reality, why we always try to humiliate and disrespect this reality that this life is nothing, think of life after death,do not do this and do not do that etc.
i heard something that
ALLAH said in Koran that do not say anything against ZAMANA, because it is from me. if it is so than why do we try to close our eyes from this reality?
if this life is nothing than why do humans are suffering for? crying for, killing for, digging for? for the life after death???
do you think so that GOD could behave like this? creating miseries and tears for the sake of life after death?
what is life after death? why this philosophy was created by the religion?
dont you all think that the religions were created just inroder to create a discipline and civilization within the illiterate communities ?
since my childhood i have been hearing that religion need this , religion need that, and what about , what we the human need is not of importance? it is like we have one child named religion and it is our duty to feed him with our blood , with our tears etc.
do you know how much this MAN has suffered? one stanza for HIM
""aadmi bulbula he pani ka, aur pani ki behti sataha per tootita bhi he doobta bhi he,pher se ubharta he, phir se bahta he,na samandar nigal saka is ko na tawareekh tor paee he, wakt ki tez moj par sada bahta aadmi bulbula he pani ka""


there are so many things to discuss but no time now to write anymore,
Note
I am not against islam, I respect Islam because islam got birth in time when there was serious situation in the world and the beautiful thing in islam that it gave us th ETHICS.
ALLAH is something which is greatest and far greatest what all the religions tell us.
I believe Islam is a theory (a good theory) and ALLAH/GOD/NATURE is something beyond our imaginations,no any religions can describe HIM in true means.
i believe that ALLAH is innocent (like a new born baby/ new born leaf etc see and feel their innocence) and powerful.
if you want to feel ALLAH , go to a very old and big tree or go to mountains and try to feel them, than you will realize and will started feeling the creator of those things.

I am sorry I was mentally tired therefore I might not been able to concentrate on the matter and english.
My request is , respect all the religions and respect humans, they all are the property of one ALLAH.
we are divided on the basis of religion.
please do something better to create a friendly world.
forgive me if anyone get hurt. i did not mean to hurt anyone.
wassalam
safimera

CANADA
Posted - Wednesday, October 27, 2010  -  12:00 PM Reply with quote
quote:

I feel the problem with us is when we want an Islamic reform we want to turn the clock, modern invention , scientific progress and modern education has to stop, somehow we feel the guidance can only be applied if we create the same circumstances.


u r rite....unfortunately many sincere islamic scholars think like that....


quote:

My request is , respect all the religions and respect humans, they all are the property of one ALLAH.
we are divided on the basis of religion.
please do something better to create a friendly world


your request is valid and we should try to do that....and islam actually encourages such attitude.

but to be emotional is no use ....

everyone has to think in his life time that:

what is the purpose of life??
what is the purpose of Islam??
what is purpose of our creation???

I know many people does not get the luck what I got....I am satisfied whatever I have at the moment in my life....a good worldly life.....(Thanks GOD Almighty).....but then all of sudden

I hear that there was one man 1400 yrs ago who claimed that there is one creator of us and He did not create you purposeless and you have to do something good here in this world and then there will be a judgement day and then result would be announced and then you would get the eternal good life.....
ok!!! because I am already having a good life, this I could ignore ....but messenger tells me that
No!!! u cannot become ignorant as well, otherwise a HELL is waiting for you after your death....
so I get afraid and try to find out the truth and do research in this regard, here by grace of God only, I start to believe that messenger was true and he put behind after him Quran and sunnah for the next generation to be truely guided.

so our real purpose to be successful in Akhirah only but to get this success we have to work in this world, we have to deal with worldly matters and we have to involve in this world ...but according to principles of ISLAM.....and everybody has to think for himself/herself to be good muslim....

this was the simple and brief story how I reached to the truth.

And truth is that it does not matter that after RasoolAllah (saw) muslim nation had divided ......

Allah cares more the individual's purification and success in Akhirah rather than the worldly superiority of a nation or indivdual's good worldly life.....

check out the history : only at the time of Prophet David and Solomon (pbut) and after RasoolAllah (saw) the MUSLIM NATION became super power of the world...otherwise at the time of all other known prophets there were always other non muslim nations which were super powers.....

so I am responsible for myself to be a good muslim for my AKHIRah ONLY....IF THE MAJORITY of muslims would be good enough to be superpower again in this world, God would make us...but this is not his main concern.....

My responsibility to minimize the division among muslims and maximize my efforts for myself to be good muslim and to do tableegh whenever I think it would be beneficial or necessary.

God knows better.
rubayee

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, October 27, 2010  -  5:44 PM Reply with quote
Islam is being dealt by ill literate and rude and rigid people.
no one had damaged Islam's dignity but Muslims.
financially poor person is most if the time is ethically poor also.
we are being kept financially deprived by the western policies and morally also.
we the Muslims have great religion but we are one of the worst nation in the world.
we are tired, liar and illiterate.
saba2
Moderator

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, November 04, 2010  -  3:07 PM Reply with quote
Salam all, rubayee people are what they make of themselves, yes there are always factors which need to be considered but in the end each one of us is individually responsible for our actions and collectively we make a nation.
We have let ourselves become corrupt and lost touch with education. When masses are uneducated and trying to survive they are easily controlled and used. Things are bad you are right.
Sanwal

INDIA
Posted - Friday, November 05, 2010  -  6:38 AM Reply with quote
quote:

When masses are uneducated and trying to survive they are easily controlled and used.

Agreed..!
rubayee

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, November 11, 2010  -  11:32 AM Reply with quote
I am confused,
if our religion is natural(from the nature) and nature is like morning and evening and night and birth and death and if e do not have control on those things because they are dictating, holding supremacy (may be that is why we call it nature) so if our religion is natural than why it does not have dictating or control or dominating attitude on our lives?
why a single person has to feel the duties first, what if a person is illeterate? how is going to understand and feel the natural duties?
why our religion does not dominate us? like our birth and death and morning and evening and night that we can not change and powerless in front of nature (ALLAH/ GOD,BHAGWAN etc)

I am confused.

one day one person wanted to cut a very old peepal tree, why? because it cause garbage (i don't think so) I asked him not to cut the tree.but since he belonged to a nation who are dominating pakistan since years he he has powerful postion in that area.
i was thinking that in islam it is mentioned that our prophet saw, said do not cut the tree, and trees are innocent if someone feel them, they do not ask anything,only blessing like hand of father on our head.
so i started thinking that who will challenge him? me? or nature?

I am so confused.
saba2
Moderator

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, November 26, 2010  -  3:49 PM Reply with quote
Salam, what you are talking about rubayee is 'nature' versus 'nurture'. We are all born with the instinct to do right and be honest but circumstances, environment and our upbringing plays a vital role in either enhancing or suppressing that instinct. Religion is our guidance to find the right path in case we lose our way.
As for cutting down a tree, you apparently love nature and some people don't see it that way, they have lost their sensitivity towards nature instead of preserving nature they are bent on destroying it. It's not easy to fight for something what you consider right, may God grant you the strength and courage to stand up for the right thing be it protecting nature or your beliefs. I don't know about challenging but a gentle push, an idea might make people think. Isfi , Safimera would you like to comment.
safimera

CANADA
Posted - Saturday, November 27, 2010  -  1:14 PM Reply with quote
salam

U have answered well, saba2.

actually I am also confused that on what point rubayee is confused....lols

may be he/she did not read yet any Quran translation or any book of religion or islam about basic concept.

I will request to read first yourself, do not believe what you listen only...

there are many controversies and confusions and conflicts in understanding many aspects of Islam, Quran and hadees.......

but by simple reading, following conclusions are agreed by all:

1) There is one GOD.

2) He created us (wheather u like it or not) to do some good things and avoid some bad things to test us.

3) Results of this test would be announced on the last day , after our death.....qiyama....

4) this truth, God told us through His different messengers. (why he is not talking to all of us directly, we do not know for sure)...

5) He sent different messengers from time to time telling people His teachings and orders.

6) Muslims believe last messenger was Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and
Quran and his rule within few yrs in Arabian peninsula are some very strong SIGNS (there are other signs as well) to prove His existance.

7) So it is upto us that we believe that messenger or not. God has given some signs only. Quran is one of them.

8) Once you believe that there is one GOD and Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) is His true messenger then we have no choice except to obey his teachings in order to avoid hell and to gain heaven.\

9) this is the very simple story about religions of Islam, christinity , jewdism and before them till Prophet Adam (pbuh), the first man in earth.

10) so rubayee==>religion would give you some moral values and orders only.....
it is we human who have to decide how to solve the problems we face here in this world.....only we should not do anything against those few moral values and orders of GOD...

11) otherwise we have to make efforts ourselves to make peace or prosperity or democracy or welfare state or whatever, you name it...

12) finally we will get reward or punishment according to our efforts in this world according to our capacity and ability.

I request you to do some research by reading good books and Quran and then you would not be confused for very basic facts.


After that we have very long list of confusions, conflicts, controversies, disagreements, arguments etc within different religions and within ISLAM
to discuss........but first do your homework and read , read and read by yourself.

God knows better.
rubayee

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, November 29, 2010  -  8:38 AM Reply with quote
Saba2 and safimera
you both are positive.but you both never came out of your homes (being ladies) to experience the nature. what you both are talking is only based on few books.
safimera said
((religion would give you some moral values and orders only.....))
if religion is closely linked to the GOD/Allah/Bhagwan/Nature than why it does not have enforcing attitude? it means the way our supereme court does, orders on certain issues and its orders are being enforced by the govt.

let me tell you one thing
Nature /Allah/ God is the one who plays himself (like khuda ki lathi be awaz) Nature is something that never explained well by ANY religion.
It is God who create changes in the whole world.
nature is based on innocence and love and care.
when you read about islam it feels that in islam Allah is all the time demanding , do this do that , when you support it that islam says do this and do that means to keep human in correct pathway? WRONG.
it is human basic instinct that when you ask them do not do this they will do the same.
it is like what we watch on tv that (looli langree jamhooryat hi ho wo theek he us se aahista aahista things get better).
no one can force human other human will do against it.
what do you think about muslims now adays? islam gave every person authority to decide tyourself and act in a good way so every muslim IF trying to do the things in better way (but better way what he/she thinks is better according to his/her mental level).this is muslim
when you go to non islamic states, they have only few things we believe are bad, sex/ alcohol. other wise I have seen them very very gentle.saabir and caring.
if you say it is our leaders who made our condition so bad , these leaders are also from us,
every religion create controversies , conflict with other religion, is this is the level of religion that these create conflicts? the conflict we are facing now?
who is or was osama? who created a turmoil in the whole world? who is jew who want to concur and dominate his religion on the whole world and while doing so create unrest and disasters in the world killing of innocent lives.

I want the people who believe that they know everything about islam respond my questions.
why muslims failed to create a loving environment within the world?
why almost all islamic states , the leaders are greedy and don't want to leave the power?
why all the islamic countries awam is suffering?
where is the problem?
why they have pope and we do not have a point where we can be united?
if Kuran shareef is there but majority don't read it, so why there is none of us , any person who create a unity between all muslims between all religions?

wassalam

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