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ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, April 04, 2005  -  8:25 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Asalaam Alaikum.
... If it were women behind the men inclduing Ms.Wadud then from what I've read in the hadiths, it would've been fine. ...
... however, from my understanding it could either be two things:
one is that the people who went along to pray Jummah with her encouraged this prohibited act
and
the other could be that Muslims should've joined and should have raised their voice in order to stop this even from happening. Sadly, this did not happen and this meant that the Ummah had failed to stop a great sin from occuring. ...
May Allah (SWT) save us all from misguidance, Ya Rabbal 'Aalameen!
Fi'Amanillah

Wa Alaikum us Salaam Dear Sweet 16
I want to mention some things here mainly for you in this Regard:

• Yes it is true that "Prayer lead by a Lady" is something that does not FALLS in the Category of HARAAM. At the moment I’m intentionally neglecting its reasoning right now.
• So the People Offered their Jummah Prayer THERE didn’t do any PROHIBITED act.
• & SORRY I personally can’t agree with your THIS derivation that “Ummah had failed to stop a great sin from occurring” Bcoz No.1) The Act wasn’t a SIN in itself though I agree that it HAD HAPPENED in a SINFUL WAY.& No.2) whole UMMAH had NOT failed, only YOU people; Muslim Residents of NY failed. YOU SEE, yesterday Religious Activists of My City; Gujranwala STOPPED a MIXED MARATHON. (Plz c pak news 4 details)
May Allah (SWT) save us all from misguidance, Ya Rabbal 'Aalameen!
AmrBassiouny

HONG KONG
Posted - Tuesday, April 05, 2005  -  6:53 PM Reply with quote
quote:

To……………………..AmrBassiouny

See your following quote and the response.

>>Can you logically convince any normal human being that a woman leading prayer will cause any harm?

Ans: Your logic is same as some abnormal man suggests the bride with turban riding the horse and the groom otherwise. Your opinion is like those stupid members of the assembly who flattered the chief minister so much to become the minister that they started to suggest converting his native town into the capital.

The men seem to be flashed blind totally to impose the thinking by all the means without thinking before speaking or chewing the fodder.


What an amusing and completely meaningless and utterly pointless post you have just given us. I am truly less enlightened now after reading your constant flow of meaningless words.

Maybe next time you could actually say something which has the slightest amount of context or meaning behind it, rather than a blabbering of random thoughts and principles which have almost nothing to do with my original question.

Answer the question. If you cannot answer it, and have nothing good to say, then don't speak at all, it is better for you, as you will avoid insulting the other person, and hence keeping yourself pure of sin. I could take the time to find you a hadith which says it is best for you to do this as well.

Edited by: amrbassiouny on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 6:58 PM
Jhangeer Hanif

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, April 06, 2005  -  5:55 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:

quote:

Ibn Rushd, in his book, Bidayatul Muqtasid Waw Nihayatul Muqtasid, records:


Abu Hanifah described two further conditions [for the Friday Prayer], Al-Misar (ie to be held within a city in contrast to a village) and Al-Sultan (ie to be held under a Sultan, ruler). (Bidayatul Muqtasid Waw Nihayatul Muqtasid, Al-Fasal: Fee Shoroot il Jumu’, page 115).




So, basically you are saying it is a bid'a to have a friday prayer outside of a Muslim country?


Why more interested in labeling? I think we should try to appreciate the point elaborated. The two conditions quoted by Ibn Rusd are indispensible for the Friday Prayer.

Now, coming to the main question, I say that it is wrong for a woman to lead a Friday Prayer. Islam has never obligated them to offer the Friday Prayer. Once absolved of the obligation of the Friday Prayer, they cannot possibly lead others. Muslims have always understood as such, which is why they have never taken a woman as a prayer leader. Even for the five daily prayers, the Holy Prophet,pbuh, has though allowed them to come to offer the prayer in congregation in a mosque, he has advised them that their home are best to perform the good deed. Please see Abu Da'ood No. 567. It is in the light of the Islamic Instructions and the general Muslim tradition that one should view the issue at hand.

AmrBassiouny

HONG KONG
Posted - Wednesday, April 06, 2005  -  10:11 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Why more interested in labeling? I think we should try to appreciate the point elaborated. The two conditions quoted by Ibn Rusd are indispensible for the Friday Prayer.

Now, coming to the main question, I say that it is wrong for a woman to lead a Friday Prayer. Islam has never obligated them to offer the Friday Prayer. Once absolved of the obligation of the Friday Prayer, they cannot possibly lead others. Muslims have always understood as such, which is why they have never taken a woman as a prayer leader. Even for the five daily prayers, the Holy Prophet,pbuh, has though allowed them to come to offer the prayer in congregation in a mosque, he has advised them that their home are best to perform the good deed. Please see Abu Da'ood No. 567. It is in the light of the Islamic Instructions and the general Muslim tradition that one should view the issue at hand.




I'm not interested in labelling, but i'm interested in clarifying.

The problem with this argument you are using is that everything says "it is BEST to do this," but there is nothing which says it is "wrong" to do it, or that it is "supposed to be done this way."

I agree with you, but then there is nothing which says it shouldn't be done, only things which say it is best for it to be done in a different way. This does not mean it is haram to do it in a different way, but only that it is mostahab/recommended to be done with a man leading the prayer.

P.S. A lot of the current scholars refer to my argument as creating a bid'a. So i was just trying to see if you agreed with them or not.

Edited by: amrbassiouny on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:13 AM
Bhavittre

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, April 16, 2005  -  12:32 AM Reply with quote
The following quotes and the replies.

1)>> What an amusing and completely meaningless and utterly pointless post you have just given us. I am truly less enlightened now after reading your constant flow of meaningless words.
Maybe next time you could actually say something which has the slightest amount of context or meaning behind it, rather than a blabbering of random thoughts and principles which have almost nothing to do with my original question.

Response: as you are shut down and have no answer therefore have only such words to console yourself without knowing that anything which is meaningless for one may be meaningful for many others.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2)>> Answer the question. If you cannot answer it, and have nothing good to say, then don't speak at all, it is better for you, as you will avoid insulting the other person, and hence keeping yourself pure of sin. I could take the time to find you a hadith which says it is best for you to do this as well.

Response: A bundle of thanks for the advice and I pray for you to have pure mind free of sins. Anything which is insulting for one may be pleasing for many others therefore I do not bother. People feeling insult can never go ahead and succeed. If yu have lost something might have gained something also, finding the post meaningful if you are supposed to be a sensible human being.
AmrBassiouny

HONG KONG
Posted - Saturday, April 16, 2005  -  10:40 AM Reply with quote
>>>Response: as you are shut down and have no answer therefore have only such words to console yourself without knowing that anything which is meaningless for one may be meaningful for many others.

Response:
How exactly do you accuse me of not answering a question, when you are unable to answer the initial question yourself, and you resort to insulting me? You didn't even ask a question for me to answer, and then you accuse me of not having an answer. What kind of logic do you go upon?

>>>>>A bundle of thanks for the advice and I pray for you to have pure mind free of sins. Anything which is insulting for one may be pleasing for many others therefore I do not bother. People feeling insult can never go ahead and succeed. If yu have lost something might have gained something also, finding the post meaningful if you are supposed to be a sensible human being.

Response:
I apolagize if i was offensive in my word choice, but that was only in response from an insulting post from you. You compared me to those who are "stupid," which is an indirect way of directly telling me i am stupid, and then this:

The men seem to be flashed blind totally to impose the thinking by all the means without thinking before speaking or chewing the fodder.

I found that insulting. I am neither low on self-esteem nor do i take insult to heart, but i do not accept it and i make that clear. Especially when your post had no substance whatsoever nor any kind of relation to the inital issue being talked about.

If you would like to contribute to the discussion, then contribute using real evidence and true debate rather than spewing indirect insults around at anybody who disagrees with your own views.
Bhavittre

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, April 19, 2005  -  8:25 PM Reply with quote
you canot change the world by sitting in the lap of woman.
lefthook

USA
Posted - Wednesday, July 20, 2005  -  3:06 AM Reply with quote
Bismillah,
La
SananK

USA
Posted - Wednesday, July 20, 2005  -  3:24 AM Reply with quote
Assalamu Alaikum, has it ever happened in the Past? During Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. time? If not then why have it now? Why change everything due to society? Society plays a big role rather then religion nowadays right? If you are telling yourself a woman should lead prayer, then tell yourself this too a man should wear hijab. Yes there should be equality but a man can lead a prayer for man and women as it was for generations unchanged till now. A woman can lead one for women without the presence of man. For those men that think it should happen, then if women are required to dress differently, then why dont we dress as them and bring that "NEW CHANGE" to ourselves? Is a woman leading a prayer for men and other women considered a change in Islam? A religion that is suppose to be unchanged? Anyone know the correct absolute 100% answer if it is allowed or not? Not a "I think" "I think it shouldn't" "Maybe" opinion or thought but a definite answer?

Assalamu Alaikum

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