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zain

FRANCE
Topic initiated on Friday, August 08, 2003  -  9:18 AM Reply with quote
Islamic Punishments


Assalam u Alaikum
Am I right is saying that the Islamic punishment to a theft is cutting one hand of the thief? And if he does it a second time his second hand is to be cut off? Then his legs? Or is it just a misconception among the society?
Many thanks.
Zain.

asd
zest

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, November 22, 2004  -  6:45 AM Reply with quote
The question seems to be very challenging one for the scholars here!!!!!!!
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, November 22, 2004  -  7:58 AM Reply with quote
This seems to be a very interesting question. What would you do for the 5th or 6th time. may be after loosing both hands and legs the thief will not be able to do such an act again but he might get some help from someone. Then what to be cut off ??

For me this is just a misconception.
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Monday, November 22, 2004  -  8:18 AM Reply with quote
>>Am I right is saying that the Islamic punishment to a theft is cutting one hand of the thief? And if he does it a second time his second hand is to be cut off? Then his legs?

May we know the source of this information. As far as I understand, right hand amputation comes about when the thief deserves no leniency whether during the first instance or the second or third when a chance or two have been granted earlier, for reasons the court deemed worthy enough.

However, if the theft has been categorized under the category of 'fisadh fil ardh', then even during the first instance of the crime, and depending upon the extreme gravity of the crime, the Hadd punishment of cutting of alternate hand and leg can be imposed. Or that is how I understand it.

Edited by: junaidj on Monday, November 22, 2004 9:02 AM
zest

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, November 22, 2004  -  5:52 PM Reply with quote
Does not the words used in the Qur'anic verse nikalan bima kasaba (as retribution for what they have earned: obviously right hand is involved if the thief is right handed) require that right hand should be cut? Also the Prophet (sws) advised that "the right hand shall be cut".
Please comment.
saadiamalik

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, November 22, 2004  -  7:09 PM Reply with quote
quote:

This seems to be a very interesting question. What would you do for the 5th or 6th time. may be after loosing both hands and legs the thief will not be able to do such an act again but he might get some help from someone. Then what to be cut off ??

For me this is just a misconception.


With both hands cut, and perhaps, legs too, how would the question of a 5th or 6th time arise! I mean, how do you steal without those limbs. Just wondering. :)

Wasalaam.
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, November 23, 2004  -  7:59 AM Reply with quote
I did mentioned that he might get some help from someone.

If i make a plan for bank robbery and some of my friends executes that plan, then don't you think I am an equal partner in the crime. What should the government do with me ?
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Tuesday, November 23, 2004  -  8:28 AM Reply with quote
>> If i make a plan for bank robbery and some of my friends executes that plan, then don't you think I am an equal partner in the crime. What should the government do with me ?

According to what I have read on our sister websites, members of a gang were supposed to be given equal punishment. However, I cannot recall the reference. I also think that was in the context of 'fisadh fil ardh'. Can you find it?

I could be wrong.

Edited by: junaidj on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 8:28 AM
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, November 23, 2004  -  8:43 AM Reply with quote
>> According to what I have read on our sister websites, members of a gang were supposed to be given equal punishment

If members of a gang should be given equal punishment, which seems to be logical, then what would you do if i have already lost my both hands and legs.

My main questions was what should be cut off now ?
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Tuesday, November 23, 2004  -  8:48 AM Reply with quote
>> then what would you do if i have already lost my both hands and legs. My main questions was what should be cut off now ?

If one were a robber who had his right arm amputated earlier, the next incident could be categorized under fisadh fil ardh/ Muharabah and hence any of the punishments, crucifixion, exile etc etc could be applied.

However, if one were a first time 'handless' robber, then I dont know, to be honest. What do you think?
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, May 04, 2005  -  11:58 AM Reply with quote
quote:

This seems to be a very interesting question. What would you do for the 5th or 6th time. may be after loosing both hands and legs the thief will not be able to do such an act again but he might get some help from someone. Then what to be cut off ??

For me this is just a misconception.


Asalam Aalaikum

I don't think any person in his right state of mind would ever commit this act again after geting this kind of horrifying punishment. Even after geting a punishment if he does that, then the police will definitely put him in a mental hospital.

Regards,


Edited by: student1 on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:23 PM
NavidKhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, May 27, 2005  -  7:53 PM Reply with quote
Dear All,
It is quite true that the punnishment prescribed in the Holy Quran for theft is to cut off the hand. This is mentioned in the Holy Quran in the following verses of Sura Al-Maidah:


[5:38] And as for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut of their hands in retribution of their offence as an exemplary punishment from Allah. And Allah is Mighty, Wise.

[5:39] But whoso repents after his transgression and amends, then will Allah surely turn to him in mercy; verily, Allah is most Forgiving and Merciful.


In the Arabic text of the Holy Quran, the phrase used is

faqtaoo aidiyahum

The term Qat has many meanings. One meaning of the phrase Faqtaoo aidiyahum may be to

"Deprive the person of the power to act in a specific way" or to "tie up his/her hand", so that he or she may not be able to steal.

Muslim Jurists have in recent years suggested that to place a theif in a prison for a period of time may have the same
effect as having cut off the hand.

There is no doubt that this punnishment or Hudd was applied in the time of the Holy prophet (salAllaho alaihe wasallam). however in those days the provision of a custodial sentance was not easily applicable, as there were no formal prisons. Now however, this may be a better way of applying this punnishment. (waAllaho aalam)

It is interesting to note that in the very next verse 39 of Sura Al- Maidah (above) there is the mention of Allah's forgiveness if the perpetrator of the crime "repents and makes amends".

In recent times a Muslim Scholar living in Swutzerland Dr. Tariq Ramadan has suggested that in those Muslim countries where the Hudood are applied, a Moratorium should be placed on these punnishments such as beheading and stoning to death and Qata e yadd. He has suggested that this moratorium should continue, until such a time that these Muslim countries may be able to undertake a whole sale reform of the society in terms of providing a system of social welfare and establishing a society where justice should be available to all.

Unfortunately at present the Majority of Muslim countires cannot boast a system or society in which Huiman rights and social justice are of a high standard.

Dr. Ramadan's call for a Moratorium on Hudood Punnishments can be found at the following link:


http://www.tariqramadan.com/article.php3?id_article=0264&lang=en


These are my humble thoughts on the subject, however as alway WAllaho Aalam Allah alone knows best.


wassalam

Dr. Navidul Haq Khan
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, May 29, 2005  -  8:26 PM Reply with quote
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

QUOTE: In recent times a Muslim Scholar living in Swutzerland Dr. Tariq Ramadan has suggested that in those Muslim countries where the Hudood are applied, a Moratorium should be placed on these punishments such as beheading and stoning to death and Qata e yadd.

I agree with Dr. Tariq Ramadan.

Basically the concept of punishment is not to disable or beheading and stoning someone to death but a lesson for others to be more careful and vigilant. Therefore in Saudi Arabia bags and purses are seen on the roads for many days and nobody dares to pick that due to the sever punishment.

GOD SAYS: And the recompense of evil deed is punishment proportionate to it, but whoever forgives and amends, he shall have his reward from Allah (42: 40).

THE PROPHET (peace be upon him) said: The persons who forbear and forgive get the same degree (of merit) as those who keep the fast and perform the prayer.

However, the victim has the right to forgive perhaps in all the cases and the forgiveness is more preferable than achieving the justice, to please God. But if the people do the punishable deeds assuming that they will ultimately be forgiven then we will have to think upon the second option (punishment) with the forgiveness still at the top. Sometimes the appellants forgive even the murderer just before hanging and the law remains bound to release the accused.

What is the role of forgiveness in the cases of punishment of fornification (24: 2) and what about the four witnesses (4: 15)? Suppose four witnesses are not available which is not unusual then what must be the strategy to punish the accused.
NavidKhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Sunday, May 29, 2005  -  11:55 PM Reply with quote
Dear Loveall

Assalamoalaikum wa Rahmatu(A)llahe wa barakatuhoo,

As you have mentioned, there are two main reasons or Maqasid of Islamic punishments:

1. Retribution
2. Deterrence

The objective is not to end up with a nation or race of invalids who will turn to begging or be used by organized criminals in order to be exploited as beggars. Recently on my trip to Saudi Arabia for Hajj earlier this year, I witnessed the terrible plight of those people who had been punished according to the Huddod in Mina. There were rows upon rows of people who had one or both hands or a hand and a foot amputated. These were all begging on the road from the campsites in Mina to the Jumaraat. I think that our Ulema should carry out a serious debate on these matters. If any state in which Muslims are the majority, does not provide the means of earning a livelihood to its population and does not look after the destitute and poor in society, then that state should follow the example of Hazrat Umar RaziAllah anho and suspend the punishments it meets out to its citizens.

It is my earbest and strong opinion, that instead of wasting their time demonstrating against the desecration of the Holy Quran in Guantanamo Bay, on the streets of Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad and Jalalabad and Cairo, our so-called Ulema should spend their time in more constructive pursuits.

Wassalam

Navidul Haq Khan
uhmelas

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, July 01, 2005  -  1:39 AM Reply with quote
I do not like such thinking.

What do they say about the accused if their own close relative is murdered or their precious things are stolen? Will they allow to release the murderer or the thief?

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