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tweety

UNITED KINGDOM
Topic initiated on Saturday, July 24, 2004  -  10:22 PM Reply with quote
learn 2 b open minded


ive bn telling some of my frends about some of the basic beliefs that this website promotes
the reactions i got frm some of my frends was a little disapointing
islam is a religion of science and logic
we no from the quran of gr8 scientific signs that wer reveald 1400 yrs ago and hav bn proven by science only a few yrs bak
wen i sed that this website promotes logic and encorages us not jst 2 accept wat ever we hear but think about it 2
my frends wer lyk no logic is a curroption of islam and i was thinking taht y do so many gr8 scientists in the world praise our religion 4 having things in it that make perfect sense all the way down 2 wudu wich is gud 4 the skin and the positions in salah that incorage blood cerculation in the body
if islam wasnt logic then we wudnt have so many intelectual ppl reverting every year 2 islam
and its becuz we hav stopd usin our brains that islam is being portrayd as a religion of fools and ppl that live in the past
the only way we can move forward and learn new things is via research and stickin 2 the guide lines- the quran and sunnah
so wat do u guys think
is islam a religion based on logic??
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, July 28, 2004  -  6:16 AM Reply with quote
Dear

Thanks a lot 4 this vital post. Jazak i Allah u Khairun

Surely ISLAM is based on LOGIC. & U R absolutely RIGHT that the ONLY way we can move FORWARD and learn new things is via RESEARCH and STICKING 2 the guide lines- the QuR'aaN and SuNNaH

regards
Jhangeer Hanif

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, July 29, 2004  -  5:47 AM Reply with quote

Islam is not based on LOGIC, I am afraid.

Islam is based on a priori knowledge, which mostly appeal to LOGIC but not necessarily.

ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, July 29, 2004  -  10:18 AM Reply with quote
Brother, Thanx 4 the Correction

Jazak a Allah u Khairun
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, July 29, 2004  -  11:51 AM Reply with quote
Sir Can you please explain "priori knowledge"

Regards
daneste64

USA
Posted - Thursday, July 29, 2004  -  7:51 PM Reply with quote
Assalamu Alaikkum!

I am afraid that we cannot advocate on the solely idea of being "open minded".
Islam is based on a Revelation directly from God, and all what He says, is right and requires submission (even on things we do not understand).
Consequently, not always follows human logic, since human logic can be wrong or based on wrong premises.
For example, humanistic logic and common sense (common in America or Europe) says that premarital intercourse is acceptable if the individuals take all the required preventions. That's why a "common" person might say: "do it, but use condoms, and be responsible".
However, according to Islam, this "logic" and even very common idea in today's society, is absolutely wrong and must be rejected by Muslims.
The course "Revelation of the Qur'an" explains the place of intelligence on the Revelation and its logic very well.
Please, correct me if I expressed something not correct or appropriate.
Salam!
Daniel
daneste64

USA
Posted - Thursday, July 29, 2004  -  7:53 PM Reply with quote
sorry.......! why 3 times...? sorry.
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, July 30, 2004  -  2:27 PM Reply with quote
Y not u deleted 2 out of 3. An author always has the right to delete his postings. I hope U yourself OR the moderators will perform this action now.
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, July 30, 2004  -  3:01 PM Reply with quote
Assalamu Alaikkum!

I think that Islam is 100% logical and there is nothing illogical in it. Even the things that are obligatory like Prayer is also very logical. Its just a case that we cannot understand some logic correctly and on the other hand some people also use this point to prove some points which are not logical.

The example which brother Daniel gave, i don't think that suits here because even Western people are now saying that premarital intercourse is not good... they recommend condoms just for the reason that ok if you don't want to stop then do it like this way plus even if someone says that its logical that doesn't really means that its logical and you have to prove it through some medical facts or some facts which appears in the society and no one can prove premarital intercourse logical. this can be someone's believe but that is not proved and until its proved that can't be termed as logical

I hope i have made my point clear.

Regards
gohar

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, August 01, 2004  -  1:37 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Islam is not based on LOGIC, I am afraid.

Islam is based on a priori knowledge, which mostly appeal to LOGIC but not necessarily.




can u plz explain this....
daneste64

USA
Posted - Sunday, August 01, 2004  -  3:30 PM Reply with quote
Assalamu alaikkum.

May be we are confusing the terms, and consequently, the concepts.
If you say that praying the way we pray (positions) has its "logic" because these movements are good for the circulation of the blood... Brother, I am sorry... If I need some excercise I will work out a little bit or go hiking this Sunday...
Now, if more seriously, we talk about logic as an inappropriate synonym of Divine wisdom, I will affirm that everything that Allah the Almighty has created, all the laws, all the commandments, and all the mysteries, are governed and directed, and guided by His Will, and EVERYTHING that comes from Him is good and has a purpose (not bad things that comes from human bad choices).
Yes, some concepts were ignored many years, and now science is finding a reason for it. Even the Prophet (SAW) didn't know. And so do we, because there is going to be always a mystery that human mind cannot understand.
The Revelation of the Qur'an and the message of Islam is not based in logic, but based on Allah's wisdom.
Again, yes, I can say that what Allah commands to do is not arbitrary. It has a purpose. But as far as I was taught so far, we cannot claim we know why, but only say that is commanded and consequenly, good for us. Is there any reason we can find for doing something? Alhamdulillah! is not a reason to be proud of, is because Allah wanted us to know.
Example: There are good reasons to say that we pray five times a day, and it has its reason or its "logic". I agree.
But it could be six times and still have its "logic" and reason.
I hope anyone can correct if I say something wrong.
Peace
Daniel
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, August 02, 2004  -  8:30 AM Reply with quote
Assalam o Alaikum,

I think we both are saying same thing just the words are little bit different. About the prayer u have said that If I need some excercise I will work out a little bit but what ALLAH wants is that everybody do it because most of us even don't know that what they need. What you said that Prophet (peace be upon him) also didn't knew some reasons that is a different debatable issue and i think i should not start that here.

You have said that "Allah commands to do is not arbitrary. It has a purpose. But as far as I was taught so far, we cannot claim we know why" that is same what i was saying that everything has a logic behind it, its just that sometime we don't know the logic and that doesn't mean that there is no logic.

As far as the topic is concerned that whether we should try to find the logic or not... for that i think following verses of Qura'n should be read which not only allow the logical thinking but also encourages those :

1. None will grasp the message but men of intellect? (2:269)

2. Most certainly the worst of animals in Allah’s sight are the deaf, the dumb who do not use their brains. (8:22)

3. Behold in the creation of the heavens and the alteration of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of intellect. (3:190)

I think these verses clearly encourages one to THINK and not just accept as it is whatever told to him.

Regards
tweety

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, August 06, 2004  -  6:30 PM Reply with quote
in reply 2 this;
For example, humanistic logic and common sense (common in America or Europe) says that premarital intercourse is acceptable if the individuals take all the required preventions. That's why a "common" person might say: "do it, but use condoms, and be responsible".

i fink common ppl even here in the UK wud say wat if the condom splits...
ne way
wat i wanted 2 say is that our religious teachings go hand in hand with logic and wat ever we do makes sense
i dnt realy want 2 point figures but sum beliefs hav pointlesss rituals such as leaving doors and windows in houses open at night 4 'gods' 2 pass through and shower blessings
at least wat we are tld 2 do makes sense
and y shudnt it?
becuz its conveyd 2 us by muhammed saw hu was tld these things by God
and hes the 1 hu created us
surgeonakhlaq

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, October 09, 2004  -  10:12 PM Reply with quote
Assalaamu’alaikum,
Regarding the “logic” I would divide it into two parts as under.
1. The universe is running 100% on the basis of the logic even at the microscopic or atomic level and beyond. A stage comes when it is said, “ The mechanism is not known” This doesn’t mean that there is no mechanism further but it is beyond our access.
2. So far as the religion is concerned, it is mixed i.e. logical as well as illogical. All those orders which are related to “Haquq-ul-Ibad” (human rights) are exclusively logical e.g. respect of each other, manners of the society, system of “Zakat” etc. In contrast all those orders, which are related to “Haquq-ullah” seem to be illogical except the scoring system of His pleasure leading to Paradise or Hell (seek refuge) but still it is not fully logical because some good deed absorbs all the sins and vice versa. This huge negative or positive marking again seems to make it illogical. I think that “Haquq-ullah” may be logical also but our brains are made in such a way that we can’t know or it may require a password given by God to His special people, to log in. There are certain aspects, which we are not supposed to know (refer to October 05, 2004 at the following link)
http://www.studying-islam.org/forum/topic.aspx?topicid=902&pg=3&lang=&forumid=1
We can only beat about the bushes but He knows better.
May Allah help and forgive us, Aameen!
Allah Hafiz!
Dr. Akhlaq

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