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try2b

PAKISTAN
Topic initiated on Sunday, May 23, 2004  -  12:28 AM Reply with quote
Eating at a gambling place


Assalaam-o-Alaikum
please somebody tell me; there is an eating place where a game called 'Tambola' is played. this game falls in the category of gambling. however, the money etc is spent within this game. now, if one has to go to dinner on a day when it is not being played, is it ok if one eats there?? sometimes it becomes difficult to avoid going, as the parents insist and become offended if one refuses to go.
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, May 26, 2004  -  12:34 PM Reply with quote
I think as far as u keep urself out of gambling, there is no harm to go there and have lunch/dinner. MAy be someone else can explain in better way.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, May 27, 2004  -  12:15 AM Reply with quote
i think if we keep the following principle from the Furqa'n in mind, it may help insha'Allah

taawanoo alal birr e wattaqwa wala taawanoo alal ism e wal udwa'n
"cooperate in all good 'n god fearing acts and do not cooperate in sin and transgression"


we face a similar situation as many of u wud in ur departments, wen we hv farewell or welcome parties to doctors joining/leaving dept. and where wine is served/ mixed parties etc.

although some of our muslim colleagues suggest we must still attend b/c if we don't it may effect our career progress etc. but then wat do u do in such situations


salams/peace
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, May 28, 2004  -  10:17 AM Reply with quote
Well I don't think that its easy for you to avoid those parties. In my opinion if you avoid such parties thats better but even if you can't atleast you should avoid the things which are forbidden in Islam.

Thats my personal opinion and may be i am wrong. If anyone can provide better explanation, I'll be obliged.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, May 28, 2004  -  9:53 PM Reply with quote
hmm...
but wen i invited them to my place, they happily cheered over coke 'n 7 up; without any mention/complaint re: non-availability of alcohol

was wondering how much to compromize then

though as per islamic teachings one shud not eat where alcohol is served, whether one consumes personally or not?
try2b

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, June 03, 2004  -  2:45 AM Reply with quote
Assalaam-o-Alaikum
thank you for the comments. however... i am still confused. darn! why do people have to participate in such acts that are forbidden!!! creating all this trouble for others. the thing that makes me boil is the comment that:
"O it's not really gambling, u know, well not the casino type. it's just a little harmless fun. and even if it is gambling, it is on such a smal scale, that it doesn't matter."
May Allah guide all of us.
please, is there any explicit directive in this regard? we know that gambling is forbidden, and also that one should avoid all those things which are doubtful. so what should be done? the situation arises ever so often that we have to go to gatherings in that place, for dinner. and i have this guilt in my heart all the time.
now that the topic has come up, what about the banking system? Allah forbid, but apparently the, it seems as if all Pakistanis who have interests involved in banks are earning haraam money?
may this system also change to Islamic one. Aameen
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, June 03, 2004  -  9:34 AM Reply with quote
salams/peace

i appreciate ur curiosity 'n worries to stick to Right

i wud still stick t the following ruletaawanoo alal birr e wattaqwa wala taawanoo alal ism e wal udwa'n[/green]"cooperate in all good 'n god fearing acts and do not cooperate in sin and transgression"
even in te situations i mentioned above where our friends are not complaining; but wenever we face similar situation where we need to choose b/w right 'n wrong, i wud chose to apologise and not to attend such gatherings

re: banking, wud wait for expert opinion in this regard
we hv a no. of member bankers/accountants now @ studying Islam in our Communities section
regards
try2b

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, June 05, 2004  -  9:10 AM Reply with quote
Assalaam-0-Alikum
thank you for clarifying a lot of things for me. i apologize for being so finicky, but the thing is, that i do try to avoid going to such places. it's only that my mother gets upset and angry at me for that. and that is what i find uncomfortable. sometimes i succumb to her wish, and then i feel doomed when i go there. but then, these are the tests that Allah puts to us to check us. may Allah help me and all of us too. Aameen.
JazaakAllah for your help.
try2b

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, June 05, 2004  -  9:10 AM Reply with quote
Assalaam-0-Alikum
thank you for clarifying a lot of things for me. i apologize for being so finicky, but the thing is, that i do try to avoid going to such places. it's only that my mother gets upset and angry at me for that. and that is what i find uncomfortable. sometimes i succumb to her wish, and then i feel doomed when i go there. but then, these are the tests that Allah puts to us to check us. may Allah help me and all of us too. Aameen.
JazaakAllah for your help.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, June 05, 2004  -  10:21 AM Reply with quote
waalaykum assalaam and ameen dearest,
yes these r indeed great trials wen one's own relatives r involved
may Allah b with urs 'n all of ours'efforts for the Good and make the test of life easy to succeed

hasbun'Allah o wa ne'mal wakeel(Allah is enough for me and the best guardian) the dua by our father Abraham a.s. seems to b the key for the toughest trials besides hard work insha'Allah and the unshaking faith that every profit or loss that cud come to us will be only with His approval
Jhangeer Hanif

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, June 05, 2004  -  2:18 PM Reply with quote
quote:


now that the topic has come up, what about the banking system? Allah forbid, but apparently the, it seems as if all Pakistanis who have interests involved in banks are earning haraam money?
may this system also change to Islamic one. Aameen


The question of 'co-operation' does not/should not arise in cases where the concerned people have no choice but to comply with the system in vogue. In present times, individuals as well as businesses have no alternative to the banking system as a secure means of transactions; they are compelled, under relevant legislations (Income Tax Ordinance etc), to transact business through banking channels. Moreover, as long as usual transactions are concerned, there is nothing wrong with the system in question.

As for the PLS account, we need to know the stance of the banks in this regard. They maintain that it is actually sharing in the profit and loss of their business. Since this spirit is not against the principles of Islam, we cannot object to this arrangement. However, it is still preferable not to be involved in this kind of arrangment because the income accruing to the bank consists of both services charges and interest on the amounts lent.

atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, June 05, 2004  -  3:38 PM Reply with quote
In reference to the PLS accounts. I am doing job and my company enforce me to open a PLS account for my salary. I don't know about the reason but one thins is sure that i draw complete amount within a month, so, i am not receiving extra amount from the bank. What you suggest about me. What should I do in this case.

Thanks in advance.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, June 05, 2004  -  4:09 PM Reply with quote
Sister,
Here is some information on banking in general and emergence of Islamic Bkg:
1. Surah Rom and Baqara explicitly forbid Riba.
2. saying of hadith of our Prophet prophecying a time when a believer will even breathe in Riba (like there will be no moving out). Whatever we do or whatever service we use has an element of interest attached.
4. Interest just helps in creation of money in a multiplier effect pushing inflation up without causing any rise in productivity.
5. Islamic believes in Riba free bkg/business enhancing eco productivity without a reliance on a pre-determined rate.
6. An interesting point is that the fall of Osmanian Caliphate of Turkey in 20th century is attributed to the compunding interest which the Caliphate was unable to pay...
7. Banks at-least in Pakistan are striving towards Islamib modes of finance including MCB, Al-Meezan, Faysal Bank....
8. It is one of the reasons for myself to move towards Training from hardcore banking
9. There r some Islamic modes of investment for deposits and liabilities and interested bro/sisters should search.
10. last but not the least is that the only way to avoid it is to make a sincere effort and seek Allah's guidance and the way will open....
Seek for infinite intelligence and it will come for ur help
Brotherly Usman....


with thnx to br Usman Yousuf.
Member Economists/Accountants /Bankers Community @ Studying Islam


Edited by: hkhan on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 4:54 AM
try2b

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, June 06, 2004  -  8:33 AM Reply with quote
Assalaam-o-Alaikum
JazakAllah to you people for dispelling much of my confusion. let us pray that the whole system of banking is overhauled and converted into an Islamic one, in Pakistan at least. this will take time, like some banks have adopted this stance, but it's worth the effort.

and... um, and dear hkhan, i use the word 'Aameen' as the ending of a prayer; 'may Allah grant it'. you can address me by my name; Abeer Fatima.
My Allah bless you all. Aameen.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, June 08, 2004  -  4:53 AM Reply with quote
w.' assalaam
yes dear sr. i know ur name from our official records;
and said ameen for dua' only :)
regards
try2b

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, June 08, 2004  -  11:32 PM Reply with quote
oh! i get it!! duuhhh!!!
sorry, i get pretty stupid sometimes.
lots of prayers for you.

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