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Nadir

SAUDI ARABIA
Topic initiated on Thursday, October 02, 2008  -  10:14 AM Reply with quote
Between the Back and the Ribs.


86: 5. So let man consider of what he is created:
86: 6. He is created of water pouring forth,
86: 7. Coming from between the back and the ribs.

Any body if can explain, how between the back and the ribs?
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, October 07, 2008  -  10:51 AM Reply with quote
That is the substance of man’s creation is not found in a place which lies outside the dominion of the Almighty: it is found within man himself.

Here is the translation of 1st 10 verses:

In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Ever Merciful.

This Heaven [which encompasses you from all sides], and those also which come in the night [which are persistently watching over you]17 -- And what do you understand what those who come in the night are? shinning stars -- they bear witness that every soul has a guardian over it.18 (1-4)
[Still they say that their Allah will not raise them up one day]. Then let man reflect from what he has been created19. From a spurting fluid that comes out from between the bones of the back and the chest20. [He should behold that if His Lord can create him in such a manner, then] surely, He is capable of creating him again. (5-8)
On the day, when secrets of the hearts are scrutinized21. Then, neither will be have any power nor will be have any helper22 (9-10)

For footnotes plz visit the following link:
http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/issue/content.aspx?id=740#20.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, October 07, 2008  -  10:06 PM Reply with quote
Basically in the foetus the testes are situated in the loins and they descend to the scrotum just before birth. Occasionally one or both may remain undescended in which case an operation is required in the baby in order to pull them down into the scrotum because sperms cannot survive in the high temperature inside the body whereas the temperature in the scrotum is low and suitable for spermatogenesis. (you can just say 'subhan'Allah' praise God on this art and design/the creation of human body)Qur'an is pointing to this fact.
(I think I did send this medical comment but doesn't look like it has been added to the Renaissance/SI Q. yet)
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, October 08, 2008  -  3:54 PM Reply with quote
quote:

86: 5. So let man consider of what he is created:
86: 6. He is created of water pouring forth,
86: 7. Coming from between the back and the ribs.

Any body if can explain, how between the back and the ribs?


Please see how M. Asad has translated the verses. Please read the footnote also.

86:5

فَلْيَنظُرِ الْإِنسَانُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ

LET MAN, then, observe out of what he has been created:

86:6

خُلِقَ مِن مَّاء دَافِقٍ

he has been created out of a seminal fluid

86:7

يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَائِبِ

issuing from between the loins [of man] and the pelvic arch [of woman]. [3]

Note 3 (Quran Ref: 86:7 )

The plural noun tara'ib, rendered by me as "pelvic arch", has also the meaning of "ribs" or "arch of bones"; according to most of the authorities who have specialized in the etymology of rare Quranic expressions this term relates specifically to female anatomy (Taj al-'Arus).(Quran Ref: 86:7 )
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, October 08, 2008  -  4:00 PM Reply with quote
quote:

86: 5. So let man consider of what he is created:
86: 6. He is created of water pouring forth,
86: 7. Coming from between the back and the ribs.

Any body if can explain, how between the back and the ribs?


And this is how Ibn Kathir explains the verses:

Allah says,

[فَلْيَنظُرِ الإِنسَـنُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ ]

(So, let man see from what he is created!) This is alerting man to the weakness of his origin from which he was created.

Then Allah says,

[خُلِقَ مِن مَّآءٍ دَافِقٍ ]

(He is created from a water gushing forth.) meaning, the sexual fluid that comes out bursting forth from the man and the woman. Thus, the child is produced from both of them by the permission of Allah. Due to this Allah says,

[يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَآئِبِ ]

(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) meaning, the backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs of the woman, which is referring to her chest. Shabib bin Bishr reported from `Ikrimah who narrated from Ibn `Abbas that he said,

[يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَآئِبِ ]

(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) "The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).''
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, October 10, 2008  -  9:11 AM Reply with quote
from the ribs of the woman? does not agree medically aboosait
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Saturday, October 11, 2008  -  2:44 AM Reply with quote
quote:

from the ribs of the woman? does not agree medically aboosait



Sure, it does not. But Mohammed Asad has used the term "pelvic arch", and this agrees with scientific facts.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, October 11, 2008  -  5:14 AM Reply with quote
still not convinced
aray bhai aboosait. i can't teach you the whole anatomy here. plz read'Abdomen & Pelvis' chapter from Gray's-'n tell mohammad asad as well
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, October 11, 2008  -  1:58 PM Reply with quote
quote:

86: 5. So let man consider of what he is created:
86: 6. He is created of water pouring forth,
86: 7. Coming from between the back and the ribs.

Any body if can explain, how between the back and the ribs?


It is an inarguable fact that sperm is created in the testicles. Therefore, we must make sure we are understanding these verses correctly. We must look carefully at the verses to ascertain exactly what the Qur’ân is saying and – more importantly – what it is not saying. There are some serious problems with this translation and the assumptions made therein. To begin with, these verses say nothing whatsoever about the creation of sperm or the creation of anything else. Consequently, they do not inform us of where the creation of sperm takes place. They merely say that the substances under discussion come out form the places being described.
The word being used is “yakhruj” meaning “to exit, leave, come out, emerge”. It in no way implies anything related to creation or origination. Secondly, the phrase “mâ’ dâfiq” (emitted fluid) is not restricted in meaning to sperm but is used in Arabic for both the sperm and the egg. Ibn Kathîr, in his commentary on this verse, writes: “It emanates from the man and the woman, and with Allah’s permission, the child comes forth as a product of both.” Thirdly, the words translated as “backbone” (sulb) and “ribs” (tarâ’ib) are not understood in Arabic to belong to the same person. Arabs understand the “sulb” to refer to a part of the male body and the “tarâ’ib” to a part of the female.
Ibn Kathîr states: “It refers to the ‘sulb’ of the man and the ‘tarâ’ib’ of the woman, which is the area of her chest.” He then quotes this interpretation on the authority of the Prophet’s companion Ibn `Abbâs. This same understanding is given in all the major classical works of Qur’anic commentary. Moreover, the word “sulb” should not necessarily be translated as “backbone”. This word has many possible meanings and backbone is only one of them. It is also quite commonly used to mean the loins of a man. This is how it is used elsewhere in the Qur’ân. Allah says: “Prohibited to you (for marriage) are…wives of your sons proceeding from your loins (aslâb, the plural of sulb).” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 23] There can be no problem with sperm coming out from the area of a man's loins. Likewise, when we look at the word being translated as “ribs” (tarâ’ib, the plural of tarîbah) we find that it is used linguistically for the general are of the chest and the abdomen. In al-Qâmûs, the famous classical dictionary of al-Fayrûzabâdî it is defined as a number of things: “the bones of the chest or what comes after the two collarbones or what comes between the collarbones and the chest or the four ribs to the right of the chest or the four ribs to the left of the chest or the hands, eyes and feet or the collarbones.” Some Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and some Successors had also provided many possible meanings, like the lower ribs and al-Dahhâk’s statement that it is the area between the breasts and feet and the eyes (a mere indication of centrality).
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detail_section.cfm?q_id=11&;main_cat_id=31


I wish your comment on this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXj2h_RhkXs
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Saturday, October 11, 2008  -  3:53 PM Reply with quote
quote:

still not convinced
aray bhai aboosait. i can't teach you the whole anatomy here. plz read'Abdomen & Pelvis' chapter from Gray's-'n tell mohammad asad as well


And how can I tell tell mohammad asad or anybody unless you tell me what u consider to be the right interpretation of the verse,as deduced from the sunnah..
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Sunday, October 12, 2008  -  6:21 AM Reply with quote
guys;i think we are slipping away from the topic initiated. the original Q was that why is it that it's mentioned in sura Tariq that the fluid poured forth comes from between the ribs and the back. simple explanation is that Qur'an is pointing towatds the original position of the testes in the embryo and foetus (as they descend to the scrotum later-just before birth). there is obviously no doubt that fertilization takes place b/w ovum 'n sperm but here the Qur'an is not addressing that. the subject here is the originality of certain organs-and this is one of the miracles of Qur'an. this indeed is another proof of It being the Word of the Creator.

your knowledge on the subject is appreciated from the religious sources. however the problem comes wen we start trying to look for medicine, astronomy, physics, chemistry, psychiatry etc fully in Qur'an and Sunnah, which are basically there to guide us how to live our lives-they do not give us the knowledge of science or arts-although there are hints given about the True facts, which is quite understandable because Qur'an is the word of the Creator of all these creations, forces and powers. but man is expected to find out further and in detail about all such by study and research into the subjects.
the knowledge of gravity was not given to a priest or an imam podering in the scriptures, rather to newton who sat under the tree and pondered why did the apple fall to the ground and not upwards in the air
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Monday, October 13, 2008  -  3:05 AM Reply with quote
quote:

........................but man is expected to find out further and in detail about all such by study and research into the subjects..............


In the light of your above quoted statement would you mind replying to my post dated Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 3:53 PM

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