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shah_625

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, October 02, 2008  -  7:52 PM Reply with quote
quote:

9: 68.

وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الْمُنَافِقِينَ وَالْمُنَافِقَاتِ وَالْكُفَّارَ نَارَ جَهَنَّمَ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا هِيَ حَسْبُهُمْ وَلَعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُقِيمٌ

Allah has promised the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the unbelievers the fire of hell to abide therein; it is enough for them; and Allah has cursed them and they shall have lasting punishment (Azab un Muqueem).


Yes yes that is right, but you ppl arn't getting my point, kaafirs, hypocrites are definitely gonna stay in hell, ut what about the Muslims who accept Allah His messenger and promise to obey Him, when they disobey Him, they commit a very evil thing because even after knowing everything and accepting it they go against Allah's will.
Same was the case with jews, exactly like the Muslims of today, Allah dismissed their false impression of staying in hell for a short time.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Friday, October 03, 2008  -  2:26 AM Reply with quote
quote:

kaafirs, hypocrites are definitely gonna stay in hell, ut what about the Muslims..................(who) go against Allah's will.


Allah is not unjust

Al-Anbiya (The Prophets)


وَنَضَعُ الْمَوَازِينَ الْقِسْطَ لِيَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ فَلَا تُظْلَمُ نَفْسٌ شَيْئًا وَإِن كَانَ مِثْقَالَ حَبَّةٍ مِّنْ خَرْدَلٍ أَتَيْنَا بِهَا وَكَفَى بِنَا حَاسِبِينَ

21:47 But We shall set up just balance-scales on Resurrection Day, and no human being shall be wrong­ed in the least: for though there be [in him but] the weight of a mustard-seed [of good or evil], We shall bring it forth; and none can take count as We do!

Edited by: aboosait on Friday, October 03, 2008 2:28 AM
shah_625

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, October 03, 2008  -  6:44 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:

kaafirs, hypocrites are definitely gonna stay in hell, ut what about the Muslims..................(who) go against Allah's will.


Allah is not unjust

Al-Anbiya (The Prophets)


وَنَضَعُ الْمَوَازِينَ الْقِسْطَ لِيَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ فَلَا تُظْلَمُ نَفْسٌ شَيْئًا وَإِن كَانَ مِثْقَالَ حَبَّةٍ مِّنْ خَرْدَلٍ أَتَيْنَا بِهَا وَكَفَى بِنَا حَاسِبِينَ

21:47 But We shall set up just balance-scales on Resurrection Day, and no human being shall be wrong­ed in the least: for though there be [in him but] the weight of a mustard-seed [of good or evil], We shall bring it forth; and none can take count as We do!

Edited by: aboosait on Friday, October 03, 2008 2:28 AM


I dnt know what is your point in all these verses you have been quoting. Wht are you trying to suggest? State it clearly are you saying Muslims will eventually go to heavens?
umarbaig

INDIA
Posted - Friday, October 03, 2008  -  9:02 AM Reply with quote
74:38. Every soul is held in pledge for what it earns,
74:39. Except the people of the right hand,
74:40. In gardens, they shall ask each other
74:41. About the guilty:
74:42. What has brought you into hell?
74:43. They shall say: We were not of those who prayed;
74:44. And we used not to feed the poor;
74:45. And we used to enter into vain discourse with those who entered into vain discourses.
74:46. And we used to call the day of judgment a lie; P Y
74:47. Till death overtook us.

……………………………………………………………………

79:35. The day on which man shall recollect what he strove after,
79:36. And the hell shall be made manifest to him who sees
79:37. Then as for him who is inordinate,
79:38. And prefers the life of this world,
79:39. Then surely the hell, that is the abode.

……………………………………………………………………

2:81. Yea, whoever earns evil and his sins beset him on every side, these are the inmates of the fire; in it they shall abide.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, October 07, 2008  -  6:24 PM Reply with quote
quote:

...........................................are you saying Muslims will eventually go to heavens?


Something very interesting:

Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:

Some people during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) asked: Messenger of Allah, will we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?

Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Yes, and added: Do you feel any trouble in seeing the sun at noon with no cloud over it, and do you feel trouble in seeing the moon (open) in the full moonlit at night with no cloud over it?

They said: No, Messenger of Allah.

He (the Holy Prophet) said: You will not feel any trouble in seeing Allah on the Day of Resurrection any more than you do in seeing any one of them.

When the Day of Resurrection comes a Mu'adhin (a proclaimer) would proclaim: Let every people follow what they used to worship. Then all who worshipped idols and stones besides Allah would fall into the Fire, till only the righteous and the vicious and some of the People of the Book who worshipped Allah are left.

Then the Jews would be summoned, and asked: What did you worship? They will say: We worshipped 'Uzair, son of Allah. It would be said to them: You tell a lie; Allah had never had a spouse or a son. What do you want now? They would say: We feel thirsty, O our Lord! Quench our thirst. They would be directed (to a certain direction) and asked: Why do you not go there to drink water? Then they would be pushed towards the Fire (and they would find to their great dismay that) it was but a mirage (and the raging flames of fire) would be consuming one another, and they would fall into the Fire.

Then the Christians would be summoned and asked: What did you worship? They would say: We worshipped Jesus, son of Allah. It would be said to them: You tell a lie; Allah did not take for Himself either a spouse or a son. Then they would be asked: What do you want? They would say: Thirsty we are, O our Lord! Quench our thirst. They would be directed (to a certain direction) and asked: Why do you not go there to get water? But they would be pushed and gathered together towards Hell, which was like a mirage to them, and the flames would consume one another. They would fall into the Fire, till no one is left except he who worshipped Allah, be he pious or sinful.

The Lord of the Universe, Glorious and Exalted, would come to them in a form non-recognizable to them and say; What are you looking for? Every people follow that which they worshipped. They would say: Our lord, we kept ourselves separate from the people in the world, though we felt great need of them; we, however, did not associate ourselves with them. He would say: I am your Lord. They would say: We take refuge with Allah from you and do not associate anything with Allah. They would repeat it twice or thrice, till some of them would be about to return. It would be asked: Is there any sign between you and Him by which you will recognize Him? They would say: Yes, and the things would be laid bare. Those who used to prostrate themselves before Allah of their own accord would be permitted by Allah to prostrate themselves. But there would remain none who used to prostrate out of fear (of people) and ostentation but Allah would make his back as one piece, and whenever he would attempt to prostrate he would fall on his back. Then they would raise their heads and He would assume the Form in which they had seen Him the first time and would say: I am your Lord.

They would say: You are our Lord. Then the bridge would be set up over Hell and intercession would be allowed and they will say: O Allah, grant safety, grant safety. It was asked: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), what is this bridge? He said: The void in which one is likely to slip. There would be hooks, tongs, spits like the thorn that is found in Najd and is known as Sa'dan. The believers would then pass over within the twinkling of an eye, like lightning, like wind, like a bird, like the finest horses and camels. Some will escape and be safe, some will be lacerated and let go, and some will be pushed into the fire of Hell till the believers will find rescue from the Fire.

By One in Whose hand is my life, there will be none among you more eager to claim a right than the believers on the Day of Resurrection for (saving their) brethren in the Fire who would say: O our Lord, they were fasting along with us, and Praying and performing Pilgrimage. It will be said to them: Take out those whom you recognize. Then their persons would be forbidden to the Fire; and they would take out a large number of people who had been overtaken by Fire up to the middle of the shank or up to the knees.

They would then say: O our Lord! not one of those about whom You did give us command remains in it. He will then say: Go back and bring out those in whose hearts you find good of the weight of a dinar. Then they will take out a large number of people. Then they would say: O our Lord! we have not left anyone about whom You commanded us. He will then say: Go back and bring out those in whose hearts you find as much as half a dinar of good. Then they will take out a large number of people, and would say: O our Lord! not one of those about whom You commanded us we have left in it. Then He would say: Go back and in whose heart you find good to the weight of a particle bring him out. They would bring out a large number of people, and would then say:
O our Lord, now we have not left anyone in it (Hell) having any good in him. Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri said: If you do not believe me regarding this Hadith, then recite if you like:


Then Allah, Exalted and Great, would say: The angels have interceded, the messengers have interceded and the believers have interceded, and no one remains (to grant pardon) but the Most Merciful of the merciful. He will then take a handful from Fire and bring out from it people who never did any good and who had been turned into charcoal, and will cast them into a river called the river of life, on the outskirts of Paradise.

They will come out as a seed comes out from the silt carried by flood. You see it near the stone or near the tree. That which is exposed to the sun is yellowish or greenish and which is under the shade is white. They said: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) it seems as if you had been tending a flock in the desert. He (the Holy Prophet) said: They will come forth like pearls with seals on their necks.

The inhabitants of Paradise would recognize them (and say): Those are who have been set free by the Compassionate One, Who has admitted them into Paradise without any (good) deed that they did or any good that they sent in advance. Then He would say: Enter Paradise; whatever you see in it is yours. They would say: O Lord, You have bestowed upon us (favors) which You did not bestow upon anyone else in the world. He would say: There is with Me (a favor) for you better than this. They would say: O our Lord! which thing is better than this? He would say: It is My Pleasure. I will never be angry with you after this.

Bukhari and Muslim
shah_625

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, October 08, 2008  -  1:16 PM Reply with quote
Brother such a long post, what is the authenticity of it, references, secondly I can't find anything of this sort in the quran, so how do I believe in this narration with no reference.

And ya, instead of qouting from here and there, why dnt you pin point your point in your own clear words.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, October 08, 2008  -  3:17 PM Reply with quote
quote:

...............And ya, instead of qouting from here and there, why dnt you pin point your point in your own clear words.


In what way do you consider aboosait's words acceptable to you while you are calling quotes from Bukhari and Muslim as qouting from here and there?

Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala does not differentiate between obeying Him and His messenger (translation of meanings):

Those are limits set by Allah (or ordainments as regards to inheritance) , those who obey Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (for ever) and that will be the supreme achievement. (Quran 4:13)

But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment. (Quran 4:14)
shah_625

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, October 08, 2008  -  4:47 PM Reply with quote
Ok, so you didnt get what I mean, I never said ur word to be more reliable or anything like this, what I meant was that you should state it clearly what your opinion is, do you think that Muslims will eventually go to heavens or not?
All this time you hve been presenting irrelevant arguments with no statement about what conclusion ur drawing from the quotes.

And regarding the hadith, first thing you need to know that there are Aadith known as zaif aadith, and second thing aadith are based on quran and sunnah, aadith donot talk about things out of the quran.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, October 09, 2008  -  4:01 AM Reply with quote
Assalamualaykum.

Brother Shah, you had asked in one of your earlier posts (I quote)


quote:

..................what about the Muslims who accept Allah His messenger and promise to obey Him, when they disobey Him, they commit a very evil thing because even after knowing everything and accepting it they go against Allah's will.............


And now you say among other things (I quote):

quote:

.................. aadith are based on quran and sunnah, aadith donot talk about things out of the quran................


The following verse in Surah An-Nisa lays down in an unequivocal manner the obligation of every Muslim to submit to the ordinances, which the Prophet, under divine inspiration, promulgated with a view to exem­plifying the message of the Qur’an and enabling the believers to apply it to actual situations. These ordinances constitute what is described as the sunnah (lit., "way") of the Prophet Muhammad, and have (whenever they are authenticated beyond any possibility of doubt) full legal force side by side with the Qur’an: see verse 80 of the same Surah.

An-Nisa (The Women)

4:65

فَلاَ وَرَبِّكَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّىَ يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ ثُمَّ لاَ يَجِدُواْ فِي أَنفُسِهِمْ حَرَجًا مِّمَّا قَضَيْتَ وَيُسَلِّمُواْ تَسْلِيمًا

But nay, by thy Sustainer! They do not [really] believe unless they make thee [O prophet] a judge of all on which they disagree among themselves, and then find in their hearts no bar to an acceptance of thy decision and give themselves up [to it] in utter self-surrender.

An-Nisa (The Women)

4:80

مَّنْ يُطِعِ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللّهَ وَمَن تَوَلَّى فَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ عَلَيْهِمْ حَفِيظًا

Whoever pays heed unto the Apostle pays heed unto God thereby; and as for those who turn away - We have not sent thee to be their keeper.
shah_625

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, October 09, 2008  -  1:12 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Assalamualaykum.

Brother Shah, you had asked in one of your earlier posts (I quote)


quote:

..................what about the Muslims who accept Allah His messenger and promise to obey Him, when they disobey Him, they commit a very evil thing because even after knowing everything and accepting it they go against Allah's will.............


And now you say among other things (I quote):

quote:

.................. aadith are based on quran and sunnah, aadith donot talk about things out of the quran................


The following verse in Surah An-Nisa lays down in an unequivocal manner the obligation of every Muslim to submit to the ordinances, which the Prophet, under divine inspiration, promulgated with a view to exem­plifying the message of the Qur’an and enabling the believers to apply it to actual situations. These ordinances constitute what is described as the sunnah (lit., "way") of the Prophet Muhammad, and have (whenever they are authenticated beyond any possibility of doubt) full legal force side by side with the Qur’an: see verse 80 of the same Surah.

An-Nisa (The Women)

4:65

فَلاَ وَرَبِّكَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّىَ يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ ثُمَّ لاَ يَجِدُواْ فِي أَنفُسِهِمْ حَرَجًا مِّمَّا قَضَيْتَ وَيُسَلِّمُواْ تَسْلِيمًا

But nay, by thy Sustainer! They do not [really] believe unless they make thee [O prophet] a judge of all on which they disagree among themselves, and then find in their hearts no bar to an acceptance of thy decision and give themselves up [to it] in utter self-surrender.

An-Nisa (The Women)

4:80

مَّنْ يُطِعِ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللّهَ وَمَن تَوَلَّى فَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ عَلَيْهِمْ حَفِيظًا

Whoever pays heed unto the Apostle pays heed unto God thereby; and as for those who turn away - We have not sent thee to be their keeper.




I feel really disappointed to see the lack of your comprehension for the matter that I raised. All this time, like I said before, you have presented irrelevant arguments, the one above is again seems pointless to me. "Whoever pays heed unto the Apostle pays heed unto God"
Why does he pay heed unto GOD, because Allah's messenger teaches people what he has been taught by Allah, he never makes up things by himself (Nauzubillah). Therefore what Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said must have any relevance or some bases with quran, or what he practiced.
As to what I had said earlier, "aadith are based on quran and sunnah, aadith donot talk about things out of the quran", you just agreed with it by saying "which the Prophet, under divine inspiration, promulgated with a view to exem­plifying the message of the Qur’an and enabling the believers to apply it to actual situations. These ordinances constitute what is described as the sunnah (lit., "way") of the Prophet Muhammad,"
What was your point there?

I'm sorry brother but I dnt feel the need to carry out this discussion any further because my original question is still there, and all this time you have been qouting verses out of context and not explicitly presenting your view.

May be I should have this discussion, or rather ask this question to a scholar.
Anywayz thankyou for your effort.

Edited by: shah_625 on Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:16 PM
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, October 09, 2008  -  5:29 PM Reply with quote
You have now deviated from your original question, the portion I have highlighted below:

quote:

............... I want to know whether this is true, whether Quran mentions this,..............


To that I replied by quoting relevant verses from the Qur'an which are self explanatory.

My reply was Posted - Monday, September 29, 2008 - 7:21 AM.

But sadly you are telling me the verses are out of context


quote:

......................... my original question is still there, and all this time you have been qouting verses out of context and not explicitly presenting your view.


First you wanted to know "whether Quran mentions this" and now that the matter has been clearly explained in the verses and ahadith quoted, you are looking for "others' view" and "scholar's opinion"

A Believers Manhaj (way): When clear proofs and evidences from the Qur'aan and the Sunnah are presented to the Believer, he submits to them giving up all his or hers mistaken concepts. Allah says:
"The only saying of the faithful believers, when they are called to Allah (His Words: the Qur'aan) and His Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) to judge between them, is that they say: 'We hear and we obey'. They are those who will attain success." [Soorah an-Noor (24): 51]

Whereas, the Manhaj of an innovator is that he makes up his own concepts and practices and then tries to make the religion comply with his ideas - by unintentionally making false interpretations of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah or claiming them to be the practices of his forefathers. He is no better then those regarding whom Allah says: "Then do you believe in a part of the Book and reject the rest? Then what is the recompense of those who do so among you, except disgrace in the life of this world, and on the Day of Judgement, they shall be consigned to the most grievous torment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do." [Soorah Al-Baqarah (2): 58]

Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, October 09, 2008 5:33 PM
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Friday, October 10, 2008  -  3:29 AM Reply with quote
In the light of the Verses from the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam the following is the belief of Muslims with regards to people being taken out of hell after their prescribed punishment:

We believe in the intercession that concerns some believers who were to be taken out from the fire. This mediation is granted to the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and to others among the prophets, the believers, and the angels.

We believe also that Allah will save from hell some of the believers without the intercession of any one, but by His grace and mercy.


Edited by: aboosait on Friday, October 10, 2008 3:29 AM
shah_625

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, October 10, 2008  -  8:09 AM Reply with quote
Brother have a look again the verses you quoted about the one who kept away from evil will be taken out of hell, I already answered that.
Secondly I said I want to know whether the quran says that Muslims will eventually goto heavens after spending sometime in Hell, and you havn't shown me anything like that.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Saturday, October 11, 2008  -  2:33 AM Reply with quote
quote:

.............I already answered that..............
.


In which post?. I might have missed that.----- difficult to go searching.--- please give reference such as date, time of your post.

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