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Topic initiated on Saturday, July 19, 2008  -  12:56 PM Reply with quote
Is this true?

According to my experience,those people
who are highly intelligent donot have faith in the life after death and neither in God but those who are less intelligent or are below normal have faith in heaven and God.

What is your experience about this?

How far do you agree with my experience?

Posted - Saturday, July 19, 2008  -  2:37 PM Reply with quote
I do not agree. Maybe the contrary. The more one has knowledge about life and how it works the more one knows one does not know much but only very little and that gives a feeling of humbleness. And this is near to believing in God and being thankful

Posted - Tuesday, July 22, 2008  -  12:24 PM Reply with quote
But how come the atheists are most intelligent people?

According to a report there was survey conducted in the Universities of USA and West and it was concluded that majority of the atheists were highly intelligent contrary to believers.
I am sorry I forgot the reference of the report but if I find it ,I'll definitely share it in this thread.


Posted - Tuesday, July 22, 2008  -  1:46 PM Reply with quote
but who decides the criterion of intelligence??
the prophet sws said that the most clever amongst you is the one who prepares for the life (eternity) to come. (mind you he did not say that the one who does not prepare for this world)
(i am sorry i also can't remember the ref of this tradition off head )

recently there has been a v. rewarding discussion of one of our scholars dr zaheer with a couple of aethists during his vist to uk- am hoping he will share in one of his future writings)

Posted - Sunday, July 27, 2008  -  12:38 PM Reply with quote

Is this true?

It seems to be yes, because they have a lot of contributions in the task needing a lot of intelligence.

Posted - Sunday, July 27, 2008  -  2:00 PM Reply with quote
dear student,
watch this video and decide who is more intelligent.


Posted - Sunday, July 27, 2008  -  2:11 PM Reply with quote

According to a report there was survey conducted in the Universities of USA and West and it was concluded that majority of the atheists were highly intelligent contrary to believers.
I am sorry I forgot the reference..

you can also make a survey of a sample in your homecountry and produce findings of it ..
that doesnt a criteria as rightly pointed by sister hena.

Posted - Sunday, July 27, 2008  -  2:14 PM Reply with quote
dear student,
just go through the below interesting discussion between an athiest and a muslim and enjoy..

"Professing to be wise, they became fools . . .. "

"LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with God."

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Muslim, aren't you, son?"

"Yes, sir."

"So you believe in God?"


"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"


"Are you good or evil?"
"The Koran says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE KORAN!" He considers for a moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them?? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could...in fact most of us would if we could... God doesn't.

[No answer.]

"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Muslim who died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. How is this God good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

[No answer]

The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?"

He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones.

"Let's start again, young fella." "Is God good?"

"Er... Yes."

"Is Satan good?"


"Where does Satan come from?" The student falters.

"From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student audience.

"I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen."

He turns back to the Muslim. "Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"


"Who created evil?

[No answer]

"Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All the terrible things - do they exist in this world? "

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"Who created them? "

[No answer]

The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!"

The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Muslim's face.

In a still small voice "God created all evil, didn't He, son?"

[No answer]

The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails.? Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like a aging panther. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues, "How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?"

The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world.

"All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it, young man?"

[No answer]

"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?"


"Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers, "Is God good?"

[No answer]

"Do you believe in God, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor. I do."

The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you? "

"No, sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your God?"

"No, sir. I have not."

"Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God or smelt your God...in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?"

[No answer]

"Answer me, please."

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"You're AFRAID... you haven't?"

"No, sir."

"Yet you still believe in him?"


"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling.? "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?"

[The student doesn't answer]

"Sit down, please."

The Muslim sits...Defeated.

Another Muslim raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?"

The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Muslim in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering."

The Muslim looks around the room.

"Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"Is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No, sir, there isn't."

The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold.

The second Muslim continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that.

There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than 458 - You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.

"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"

"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are you getting at...?"

"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"


"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it?

That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn't.? If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?"

Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him.

This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error...."

The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!""

"Sir, may I explain what I mean?"

The class is all ears.

"Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.

"You are working on the premise of duality," the Muslim explains.? "That for example there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood them.? To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it."

The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"

"Of course there is, now look..."

"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality.? Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice.? Is there such a thing as evil?"? The Muslim pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"

The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is temporarily speechless.

The Muslim continues. "If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is accomplishing? The Quran tells us it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free will, choose good over evil."

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't vie this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable."

"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the Muslim replies.? "Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a silent, stony stare.

"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?"

"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion.? Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.

"So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"

"I believe in what is - that's science!"

"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin.? "Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena.? Science too is a premise which is flawed..."? "SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters.

The class is in uproar.? The Muslim remains standing until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may I give you an example of what I mean?"

The professor wisely keeps silent.

The Muslim looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?"

The class breaks out in laughter. The Muslim points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain... felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain?"

No one appears to have done so. The Muslim shakes his head sadly.? "It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the professor has no brain."

The class is in chaos.

The Muslim sits... Because that is what a chair is for.

Posted - Sunday, August 3, 2008  -  11:19 PM Reply with quote
Assalamu Alaykum

My opinion is that there is no direct relation between intelligence and faith in God.

For example, you can find videos all over the Internet documenting scientists taking shahada (in other words, embracing Islam), alhamdulillah.

Also, I see two problems with the survey you quoted.

One: it was taken only in the west. There are a lot of intelligent people living in other parts of the world. I think that to get fair results, the survey should be concluded worldwide.

Two: it was taken in these modern times only. To get fair results, intelligent people (great contributors [for good] to history of mankind) of the past should be also considered, their beliefs researched. I think a lot of people today would be surprised of how faith in God and progress in science could "co-exist", and in fact strengthen each other in one person. It is only the idea of our times, especially in the west, that religion equals to obscurantism, and moreover, modernity can be achieved only through atheism.

Not to mention the credibility of such a survey. It is well known that in the west a scientist can loose his/her position if he/she reveals his/her faith in God. Such a scientist will often be ridiculed and marginized. Just look at the harsh attacks against the theory of Intelligent Design. With this in mind, it is no surprise that if a scientist wants to carry on with his/her research, wants to contribute for the good of mankind, or for selfish reasons wants to benefit from his/her work, he/she will hide his/her faith in God Almighty (I am not saying that I agree to this practice, but it happens more than one would think).

My opinion is that strong faith in God has nothing to do with intelligence. I would say that probably an intelligent person will believe in God for a different reason than a simpler person, that might be true. Or, talking about new converts, probably a different reason will attract intelligent people to the deen. Again, you can find videos of new Muslims all over the Internet, and if you spend some time watching them, you will find so many different stories and reasons of why someone has faith in God Almighty.

So faith in God is more of a question of upbringing, personal interest, and of course primarily the guidance from Allah (swt). For Allah (swt) says in the noble Qur'an: "Verily! You guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided". (Surat 28 Al-Qasas, ayat 56)

And Allah (swt) knows best.

Posted - Friday, August 8, 2008  -  12:15 PM Reply with quote
29:38. And (We destroyed) Ad and Samood, and from their dwellings (this) is apparent to you indeed; and the Shaitan made their deeds fair-seeming to them, so he (Shaitan) kept them back from the path, though they were endowed with intelligence and skill.

Posted - Saturday, August 9, 2008  -  4:34 AM Reply with quote
Salaam aliukum,

Masha'Allah. I was going to post one the same points as WadoodKarem - Jaza'kAllah khier. We must consider the diversity of the world and the Ummah. Surely we can find high IQ exams in all camps, however what matters most in this dunya is righteousness. Regardless if my IQ is 180, if I oppress people and spent my life in the haram I will have no benifit from it.

Salaam aliukum

If anything I have mentioned is correct it comes from Allah, who deserves all praise, and if anything is wrong it comes from me and the shaitan.

Posted - Friday, August 15, 2008  -  2:26 PM Reply with quote
A person who is religiously enlightened appears to me to be one who has, to the best of his ability, liberated himself from the fetters of his selfish desires and is preoccupied with thoughts, feelings and aspirations to which he clings because of their super-personal value regardless of whether any attempt is made to unite this content with a Divine Being. Accordingly a religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance of those super-personal objects and goals which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation. In this sense religion is the age-old endeavor of mankind to become clearly and completely conscious of these values and goals, and constantly to strengthen their effects." He argued that conflicts between science and religion "have all sprung from fatal errors." Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
(Einstein, a famous scientist and Noble prize Laureate in Physics)

Posted - Saturday, August 16, 2008  -  6:07 AM Reply with quote

but who decides the criterion of intelligence?

Intelligence as defined in

Children's Health Encyclopedia

Intelligence is an abstract concept whose definition continually evolves and often depends upon current social values as much as scientific ideas. Modern definitions refer to a variety of mental capabilities, including the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly, and learn from experience, as well as the potential to do these things.


Several theories about intelligence emerged in the twentieth century and with them debate about the nature of intelligence and whether it determined by hereditary factors, the environment, or both. As methods developed to assess intelligence, experts theorized about the measurability of intelligence, its accuracy, and the field known as psychometrics, a branch of psychology dealing with the measurement of mental traits, capacities, and processes. Publication in 1994 of The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life by Richard J. Herrnstein and Charles Murray stirred the controversy. Their findings pointed to links between social class, race, and intelligence quotient (IQ) scores, despite questions by many about the validity of IQ tests as a measurement of intelligence or a predictor of achievement and success.

Part of the problem regarding intelligence stems from the fact that nobody has adequately defined what intelligence really means. In everyday life, people have a general understanding that some people are "smart," but when they try to define "smart" precisely, they often have difficulty because a person can be gifted in one area and average or below in another. To explain this phenomenon, some psychologists have developed theories to include multiple components of intelligence.

Since about 1970, psychologists have expanded the notion of what constitutes intelligence. Newer definitions of intelligence encompass more diverse aspects of thought and reasoning. For example, American psychologist Robert Sternberg developed a three-part theory of intelligence which states that behaviors must be viewed within the context of a particular culture; that a person's experiences impact the expression of intelligence; and that certain cognitive processes control all intelligent behavior. When all these aspects of intelligence are viewed together, the importance of how people use their intelligence becomes more important than the question of "how much" intelligence a person has. Sternberg has suggested that some intelligence tests focus too much on what a person has already learned rather than on how well a person acquires new skills or knowledge.

Another multifaceted approach to intelligence is Howard Gardner's proposal that people have eight intelligences:

* Musical: Children with musical intelligence are always singing or tapping out a beat. They are aware of sounds others miss. Musical children are discriminating listeners.

* Linguistic: Children with linguistic intelligence excel at reading, writing, telling stories, and doing crossword or other word puzzles.

* Logical-Mathematical: Children with this type of intelligence are interested in patterns, categories, and relationships. They are good at mathematic problems, science, strategy games, and experiments.

* Bodily-Kinesthetic: These children process knowledge through their senses. They usually excel at athletics and sports, dance, and crafts.

* Spatial: These children think in images and pictures. They are generally good at mazes and jigsaw puzzles. They often spend lots of time drawing, building (with blocks, Legos, or erector sets), and daydreaming.

* Interpersonal: This type of intelligence fosters children who are leaders among their peers, are good communicators, and understand the feelings and motives of others.

* Intrapersonal: These children are shy, very aware of their own feelings, and are self-motivated.

* Naturalist: This type of intelligence allows children to distinguish among, classify, and use features of the environment. These children are likely to make good farmers, gardeners, botanists, geologists, florists, and archaeologists. Naturalist adolescents can often name and describe the features of every make of car around them.

Intelligence Tests

There are many different types of intelligence tests, and they all do not measure the same abilities. Although the tests often have aspects that are related with each other, one should not expect that scores from one intelligence test that measures a single factor will be similar to scores on another intelligence test that measures a variety of factors. Many people are under the false assumption that intelligence tests measure a person's inborn or biological intelligence. Intelligence tests are based on an individual's interaction with the environment and never exclusively measure inborn intelligence. Intelligence tests have been associated with categorizing and stereotyping people. Additionally, knowledge of one's performance on an intelligence test may affect a person's aspirations and motivation to obtain goals. Intelligence tests can be culturally biased against certain groups.

Posted - Saturday, August 16, 2008  -  6:29 AM Reply with quote

  • those people who are highly intelligent do not have faith in the life after death and neither in God

  • those who are less intelligent or are below normal have faith in heaven and God.

On the contrary an intelligent person is one who has faith in God and in the life after death

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