| Author | Topic |
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Monday, May 21, 2007 - 11:14 AM 
| come out with logical arguements backed with sound knowledge-for which you will have to sit and read my dear...presently the biggest dilemma of muslim ummah is that every1 wishes to adapt allama iqbal's pose but very few take the pain of sitting and reading-studying islam always welcomes reasonable arguements--but don't just 'barh' without knowledge-wasting your own and others' valuable time- |
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Dalmir
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, May 21, 2007 - 11:47 AM
| Don't say like that if you have NO KNOWLEDGE and NO ANSWER!!!! |
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xxbasxx
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, May 21, 2007 - 2:20 PM
quote:
Don't say like that if you have NO KNOWLEDGE and NO ANSWER!!!!
show some respect. do you not understand the answer that the moderator is trying to give you. clearly not. go back a page and read what she wrote, again, and show some manners by responding with a civlised answer.
furthermore, how dare anyone even consider hurting their spouse if they havent indecently had an illicit relationship outside marriage- and no im not wrong. thats the only situation in which you're allowed to hurt your wife - if she has slept with someone else during your marriage.
so many men, soooo many, have had affairs outside their marriage but none of them, not a single one, has been beaten to a pulp the way they should be.
why not just put a stop to this ridiculous topic and, if your wife has had an affair with someone else, speak to a knowlegable person about what should be done - or, for God's sake, use your own brain and get a divorce
Wassalam
.xXx. |
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xxbasxx
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, May 21, 2007 - 2:27 PM
quote:
quote:
we ought to come out of this close-mindedness and adapt a more open and educational attitude whilst reading and understanding the revelations.
only this morning during routine study, as i read through surah anfal(8),once again came across verse 60 where god has commanded to keep resources prepared and available for defence-the arabic word used is 'ribat il khail' ready,tied up horses- today tanks, jets n such are used instead. wud we still insist on keeping horses for the purpose because this is what Qur'an has said literally.
Are you tying to say that in these modern days wives must be beaten with the handle of the pistol/gun or some modern weapon.?? If so then, of course, your approach is close-minded and un-educational.
use your brain, in modern society women should not be beaten at all
ever heard of BEING CIVILISED AND FILING A DIVORCE??????
or even avoiding her until you patch up your differences?
what about marriage therapy?
and, if you're really angry, moving away for a while??
ultimately, in today's society, women being hurt physically by a man (or even vice versa), is completely backward.
heres some advice to all the men on this WOMEN'S ISSUES forum:
go. away.
.xXx. |
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Dalmir
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, May 21, 2007 - 5:25 PM
YOU are WRONG, because of NOT using your brain and NOT looking at the general agreement of the scholars and those who have their language ARABIC!!!
Every other translation use meaning of ‘Daraba’ here to ‘BEAT’. Pickthal means to ‘SCOURGE’.
If you mean or interpret otherwise then, it is absurd, whimful and wishful. |
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Dalmir
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, May 21, 2007 - 6:01 PM
quote:
heres some advice to all the men on this WOMEN'S ISSUES forum:
WHO are YOU in the presence of GOD's advice!!! |
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tweety
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 7:20 PM
salaamz...
okay, i think people are getting to emotional/personally involved in this topic
but anyway
my general concensis on this issue is that yes men are allowed to punish their wives only in the total extreme sinario of if they sleep with other men. They have to go through some rules first, eg, not sleep with them for a few nights, talk to them, reason with them...if all else fails, LIGHTLY hitting is allowed. Women have the same authority over their husbands, but because men are physically stronger, it is probably not advised for a woman to advance on a man cheating on her because if he retaliates he has more of a physical capacity to harm her.
The problem with this rule is many men take liberty to apply it whenever they feel like it and beat their women freely (resulting in domestic violence). Only if you are applying all the other rules of islam e.g salah fasting everything that islam asks you to do to make u a good muslim can you turn to the quran to suport your actions. Dont cherry pick religion. I know many women that have been abused so much by husbands who arent even good muslims themselves. The women have done nothing wrong,simply been there infront of their husband while the husband was angry and fallen pray to their anger. Islam teaches us to control our anger. This authority is a double edged sword. If abused, those who do abuse it will be held heavily responsible. Allah does not forgive unless those we wrong forgive us. Men are using this as an excuse to seriously hurt their wives- if they were decent muslims that followed the quran and everything it taught instead of cherry picking religion then they would only lightly punish their women if they did something as horrific as slept with other men. First of all, the state of islam would punish a woman/man for that sort of behaviour anyway (whipped in public). Is it not better for the husband to resolve this issue and punish her for this act within the privacy of their own home instead of a public humiliation? Second of all this does not give a man the authority to beat her freely- nore does it give him the authority to pulvarise her, nore does it mean if the man did something similar (e.g. slept with other women) he would get away with it. The state would punish him too, and the wife if she wanted could also take similar action, if she is in a safe position to do so.
The reason why this rule is there is to preserve the sanctity of marraige. As I understand it, a man or woman can only be accused of adultry if four witnesses see it happening. Now we all know how rare it would be for four witnesses to find anyone commiting adultry. But what if the husband/wife know their other half is commiting such an act and is not being publicly punished for it simply because 4 witnesses haven't been found? In this case i think a man IF HE KNOWS FOR CERTAIN because the woman has admited it can beat her lightly to punish her within the home and not make it a public scene. However there is always a danger of the man taking his anger out on his wife for this, which is why im stressing the importance of him being a god fearing man who knows he will have to answer for his actions if he does abuse his authority.
Islam is fair and just. The prophet told us to look after our women three times in the last sermon because he knew we are the weaker sex and will be downtroden if rules were not set up to protect us. There is wisdom in Allah's sayings, we just have to be open minded to see it.
Edited by: tweety on Thursday, May 24, 2007 7:26 PM
Edited by: tweety on Thursday, May 24, 2007 7:27 PM |
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Dalmir
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, May 25, 2007 - 2:12 AM
| Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves. (Eric Hoffer) |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Monday, May 28, 2007 - 10:22 PM
You are well WRONG!!!
dalmir so sound very much like a couple of people whose registrations have been cancelled because of not being able to communicate in a civilized manner...
we are still facing the problem of such members re-registering with changed I.Ds; so members will have to be a bit patient untill such are dealt with.. |
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Dalmir
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 5:12 PM
You are well WRONG!!!
quote:
...... very much like a couple of people whose registrations have been cancelled.....
No problem at all, Mr. moderator. |
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Dalmir
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 5:46 PM
quote:
a couple of people whose registrations have been cancelled
Be ashamed of loosing them!! |
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Dalmir
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 5:46 PM
quote:
a couple of people whose registrations have been cancelled
Be ashamed of loosing them!! |
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Dalmir
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 5:46 PM
quote:
a couple of people whose registrations have been cancelled
Be ashamed of loosing them!! |
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Dalmir
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 5:46 PM
quote:
a couple of people whose registrations have been cancelled
Be ashamed of loosing them!! |
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Dalmir
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 5:46 PM
quote:
a couple of people whose registrations have been cancelled
Be ashamed of loosing them!! |
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Kashan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 9:02 AM
Islam gave unprecedented respect to Muslim women and In fact in many ways Women are given higher degree of reverence as compared to men (e.g. Mothers as compared to Fathers), but we need to accept here that in a Family-life yet men are given sovereignty over their Women (“The Men are rulers over their women…. 34:4 Annisa). And though under specific evolving circumstances, yet men are given a right to BEAT his wife, whereupon, strictly avoiding any severe blow that could cause internal corporal injury.
The Reason-of-revelation (Shaan-e-Nuzool) of the Verse 34:4 also is helpful in clarifying the subject further.
"Once a companion Saad Bin Rabia’ (may Allah be pleased with him) slapped his wife Habibah (may Allah be pleased with her) and the matter was reported to Rasoolullah’s (peace be upon him). Rasoolullah (peace be upon him) was about to give his verdict in favour of Wife, but, prior to that, Gabriel (peace be upon him) appeared and revealed this Verse “The Men are rulers over their women…..”, after this revelation Rasoolullah’s (peace be upon him) uttered that I wished something else and Allah (the exalted) ordered something else (Ibn-kathir)."
Further, please read 44:38 (Suad): Here One of Allah’s apostle Ayub (peace be upon him) was ordered by Allah (the exalted) to beat his wife, tenderly though.
Now a quote from Mr. Ghamdi, he says that the words used in Quran meant an interpretation that was classical in nature and was widely understandable for its famous (Ma'roof) meaning in the then Arab. And from that day onwards until today Arabs use the word "DARAB" for beating and not for revoking any given right to somebody, as Dr. Hina Khan (the moderator) mentions in her reply to the subject.
Well, being sympathetic to Dr. Khan's meaning of DARAB (holding pocket money, limiting makeup…. etc.), I classify her derived meaning related to the stage where a Man is advised to banish (Wahjur) his wife from his bed, and strictly not to the stage where a man is advised to BEAT his wife.
Besides, I'm not an expert of Arabic Grammar (Nahav) but just would like to notify that Horses and Camels are nouns but DARAB/Beat is a verb/action word. So, Dr. Khan is not right in drawing this analogy.
What can be the right answer to the subject is that the Quranic order of beating a wife cannot be considered here as super imposing over the family laws of the State. And if State debars men from beating their Wives under any of the circumstances then one must obey its State’s regulations (Wa Allah A’lam, I’m not an expert in Islamic Jurisprudence-Fiqh, but just gave my opinion.
Kashan Iqbal
Dubai, UAE |
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