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waseem

UNITED KINGDOM
Topic initiated on Sunday, March 04, 2007  -  7:04 AM Reply with quote
surah Tahrim 66- can you clarify please


066.001
O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you; you seek to please your wives; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

066.002
Allah hath made lawful for you (Muslims) absolution from your oaths (of such a kind), and Allah is your Protector. He is the Knower, the Wise.


066.003
And when the prophet secretly communicated a piece of information to one of his wives-- but when she informed (others) of it, and Allah made him to know it, he made known part of it and avoided part; so when he informed her of it, she said: Who informed you of this? He said: The Knowing, the one Aware, informed me.

066.004
If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders.

066.005
Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, March 06, 2007  -  8:32 AM Reply with quote
Plz State ur Problem in understanding these Verses in the Form of Qs. Thanks
oosman

USA
Posted - Wednesday, March 07, 2007  -  9:32 PM Reply with quote
I think (but I am not sure) that these verses are elaborated more in the following hadith. I do not know how authentic the hadith is, so read with caution.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 434:

Narrated 'Aisha:

Allah's Apostle used to drink honey in the house of Zainab, the daughter of Jahsh, and would stay there with her. So Hafsa and I agreed secretly that, if he come to either of us, she would say to him. "It seems you have eaten Maghafir (a kind of bad-smelling resin), for I smell in you the smell of Maghafir," (We did so) and he replied. "No, but I was drinking honey in the house of Zainab, the daughter of Jahsh, and I shall never take it again. I have taken an oath as to that, and you should not tell anybody about it."

***** ****

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 7, Book 63, Number 192:

Narrated 'Ubaid bin 'Umar:

I heard 'Aisha saying, "The Prophet used to stay for a long while with Zanab bint Jahsh and drink honey at her house. So Hafsa and I decided that if the Prophet came to anyone of us, she should say him, "I detect the smell of Maghafir (a nasty smelling gum) in you. Have you eaten Maghafir?' " So the Prophet visited one of them and she said to him similarly. The Prophet said, "Never mind, I have taken some honey at the house of Zainab bint Jahsh, but I shall never drink of it anymore." So there was revealed: 'O Prophet ! Why do you ban (for you) that which Allah has made lawful for you . . . If you two (wives of Prophet) turn in repentance to Allah,' (66.1-4) addressing Aisha and Hafsa. 'When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to some of his wives.' (66.3) namely his saying: But I have taken some honey."

****************************

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 86, Number 102:

Narrated 'Aisha:

Allah's Apostle used to like sweets and also used to like honey, and whenever he finished the 'Asr prayer, he used to visit his wives and stay with them. Once he visited Hafsa and remained with her longer than the period he used to stay, so I enquired about it. It was said to me, "A woman from her tribe gave her a leather skin containing honey as a present, and she gave some of it to Allah's Apostle to drink." I said, "By Allah, we will play a trick on him." So I mentioned the story to Sauda (the wife of the Prophet) and said to her, "When he enters upon you, he will come near to you whereupon you should say to him, 'O Allah's Apostle! Have you eaten Maghafir?' He will say, 'No.' Then you say to him, 'What is this bad smell? ' And it would be very hard on Allah's Apostle that a bad smell should be found on his body. He will say, 'Hafsa has given me a drink of honey.' Then you should say to him, 'Its bees must have sucked from the Al-'Urfut (a foul smelling flower).' I too, will tell him the same. And you, O Saifya, say the same."

So when the Prophet entered upon Sauda (the following happened). Sauda said, "By Him except Whom none has the right to be worshipped, I was about to say to him what you had told me to say while he was still at the gate because of fear from you. But when Allah 's Apostle came near to me, I said to him, 'O Allah's Apostle! Have you eaten Maghafir?' He replied, 'No.' I said, 'What about this smell?' He said, 'Hafsa has given me a drink of honey.' I said, 'Its bees must have sucked Al-'Urfut.' " When he entered upon me, I told him the same as that, and when he entered upon Safiya, she too told him the same. So when he visited Hafsa again, she said to him, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall I give you a drink of it (honey)?" He said, "I have no desire for it." Sauda said, Subhan Allah! We have deprived him of it (honey)." I said to her, "Be quiet!"
waseem

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, March 08, 2007  -  5:26 AM Reply with quote
Surah 66. mentions about two incidents. firstly the prophet pbuh is pointed out that he should not forbid what is halaal. secondly the azwaaz i mutaharat are pointed to.

Two possible incidents have been quoted. first is about the use of honey which gave bad odour to the mouth, when pointed to prophet pbuh. prophet promised that he will not eat it again.

Second involves Maria rta. It is stated that according to hadith, Maria was very pretty and good looking. Hazrat Safia rta and hazrat Aisha rta pointed to prophet pbuh about her and he promised not to have any relations with her.

Could you please clarify what is your understanding about this matter.
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, March 08, 2007  -  7:07 AM Reply with quote
There are 2 different stories as stated by you. Many scholors have done research on this topic and I seriously think that it was there mistake....

This is a simple issue, when ALLAH is not clarifying the exact issue that means HE doen not want to tell this thing to us, then WHY we are being curious about it. If He wanted to tell this thing, Quran should have stated the exact issue which is not the case.

In my opinion, if Quran wants to hide anything, we should abide to Quran and should not try to uncover, which eventually we can never do.
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Thursday, March 08, 2007  -  9:21 AM Reply with quote
quote:

This is a simple issue,

Quran is a book of guidence.The guidence is clearly
stated in the given verses.

plz correct me dear participants on the below,
we can have a series of informations about any given event.Out of those informations Quran selects only those which are essential for" tazkeer".So that the concentration and focus of the seeker should remain only be on taking guidence .
Its good if someone tries to know each and every detail but he must distinguish between the guidence and the knowledge part .Again those details of knowledge are subject of history,science etc .not Quran.

The below verse is showing as how people talk about an event of past,

18:22 [And in times to come] some will say, [31] "[They were] three, the fourth of them being their dog," while others will say, "Five, with their dog as the sixth of them" -idly guessing at something of which they can have no knowledge -and [so on, until] some will say, "[They were] seven, the eighth of them being their dog." Say: "My Sustainer knows best how many they were. None but a few have any [real] knowledge of them. Hence, do not argue about them otherwise than by way of an obvious argument, [32] and do not ask any of those [story-tellers] to enlighten thee about them."
-------------
The exact number is not given ,coz it is not an issue of guidence,but see how people leave the guidence part and indulge in other details.

Allah knows the best,and I dont know.

Edited by: raushan on Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:30 AM
waseem

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, March 09, 2007  -  7:13 AM Reply with quote
Are we saying that we should read the verses of the Qur'an without trying to decipher what reason or incident provoked Allah to correct the prophet of Allah. In this surah Allah has not only corrected his prophet and his wives who are the mothers of all believers.
atifrafi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, March 09, 2007  -  10:00 AM Reply with quote
Dear Brother Waseem,

Can you please clarify why you want to know the exact incident. For me, according to these verses, we are not allowed to make any Halaal thing Haraam and vice versa. This is a lesson for us, and if ALLAH wanted us to know about the exact incident, HE must have stated that.

The Quran not telling the exact issue clearly means that ALLAH doesn't wanted that to tell us, then why we want to know ?
waseem

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, March 09, 2007  -  2:44 PM Reply with quote
Salam brother Atifrafi.
We may have a difference of opinion on this one. Let me ask you two scenarios

1. A non muslim reads the Qur'an and asks you about this surah. Will you answer it by saying it is not for me to know.

2.Sahabha in the time of prophet pbuh, learn't about this surah. Do you think they would not ask the prophet pbuh about the relevant incidant.

3. When we say Qur'an is a Book of guidance, should we not know what the prophet pbuh did that generated such a response. Allah ahs told the entire muslim ummah that he ahs done something which he shouldn't have done.If I was alive , I would have asked him what was it. I feel it would be better for us to learn about the incident knowing the scenario then knowing the final judgement. It would clarify the issue better. Having said that , we may disagree on this.

Let us see what the other particpants think
oosman

USA
Posted - Friday, March 09, 2007  -  3:33 PM Reply with quote
I agree with Atifrafi. There is the story, then there is the moral of the story. What is really important is the moral of the story and not the story itself. That is why the holy Qur'an does not tell us the story, just the moral of the story in this case.

To a non-Muslim, I think it is pretty clear what the Quran is saying in these verses. As for us, we do not live in the time of the prophet, and we do not have the facility to go and ask him what the verse is about. We can only look up hadith books and other historical records, but we must not get side-tracked from the moral of the story and focus on that alone. Sometimes using fake hadith, one can reach the wrong conclusions and get deviated from the truth.
waseem

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, March 10, 2007  -  4:56 AM Reply with quote
Salaam brothers

I am guided by my learned collegues. Amru hum shura baynahum. If majority feels we should refrain from exploring, I stand corrected. Many thanks for your input
kind regards
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, March 10, 2007  -  6:37 AM Reply with quote
wa Alaikum us Salaam Br. Waseem

Plz Go Thru (You & All othere Readers) the Following & Tell me again If You Still have Some Qs about these Verses:

Title:
Some Questions Regarding the Opening Verses of Surah Al-Tehreem

Question:

I have read the tafseer[1] by Maulana Maududi. It provoked the following questions

Firstly I want to know the details "tafseer" of Surah Tahreem's first 5 verses. Secondly in the above context how can we perceive the concept of "londi"[2] or "maid".



Answer:

Before explaining the referred verses and deriving any directives regarding slave girls from these verses, let us first take a look at a simple translation of these verses. Al-Tehreem 66: 1 - 5 may be translated as:

O Prophet, seeking to please your wives, why did you prohibit for yourself that which God had made lawful for you? God is, indeed, Forgiving, Merciful. God has made the undoing of such oaths obligatory upon you [O Muslims]. God is your Master. He is All-knowing, Wise.

When the Prophet confided a secret to one of his wives; and when she disclosed it and God informed him of this, he made a part of it known [to his wife] and ignored the rest. And when he informed her of it, she said: 'Who told you?'. He said: 'The Wise, the All-Knowing told me'. If you two turn to God in repentance, for your hearts are already inclined toward repentance, you shall be pardoned; but if you go against him, then be well aware that God is his protector and Gabriel and the righteous among the believers. The angels too are his helpers. It may well be that if he divorces you, his Lord will give him, in your place, better wives than yourselves, submissive to God and full of faith, obedient, penitent, devout, given to fasting; whether formerly wedded or virgins.

As should be clear from the translation, there are two issues that have been discussed in these verses. Firstly, the Prophet (pbuh) has been told to relieve himself from the responsibility of fulfilling an oath, according to which, it seems, that he had promised to refrain from something, which was lawful in the Islamic Shari`ah, for the sole purpose of pleasing one of his wives[3]. The reason for this directive is due to the immense importance of even the habits and the likes and dislikes of the Prophet (pbuh) in the eyes of the common Muslims. It was quite likely that a common Muslim may also start refraining from the particular item in question, merely on the grounds that the Prophet (pbuh) refrained from consuming it, irrespective of the reason of the refrain of the Prophet (pbuh). Subsequently, it was possible, as time went by, that the Muslim Ummah started considering the particular item in question to be prohibited, while actually it was not.

It was primarily due to these likely consequences of the action of the Prophet (pbuh) that he was directed by the Qur'an to dissolve the particular oath under consideration.

Secondly, the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) have been admonished to maintain a strict guard in all such matters in which the Prophet (pbuh) has confided with any one of them. This admonition stems from an incident in which one of the wives, with whom the Prophet (pbuh) had confided a particular issue, shared it with another one of the Prophet's wives. Whatever the issue was, it seems that it was of a nature, which should not have been discussed with others. It was in this context that the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) were given the stated directive of guarding against sharing the secrets that the Prophet (pbuh) shares with them. Furthermore, they were also directed to seek forgiveness for their mistakes and to remain obedient to the Prophet of God.

As far as your second question is concerned, I really could not understand the relevance of the concept of slave girls (londis) with the referred verses. I would appreciate if you would kindly clarify your question by explaining the relevance of concept with the related verses.

August 14, 2000


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] Explaination.

[2] i.e. slave girls.

[3] According to some historical narratives, the thing in question was a particular kind of honey. It seems that one of the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) did not like the smell of the particular kind of honey and objected to it, when the Prophet (pbuh) came to her. The Prophet (pbuh) in return promised to refrain from eating the particular kind of honey.

Source: http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=483

Regards
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 10, 2007  -  1:32 PM Reply with quote
quote:

If majority feels we should refrain from exploring, I stand corrected.

This is exaggeration brother.
There is a story and there is a part of the moral of the story,as explained by oosman in beautiful words.The moral part of the story is subject of Quran.Quran gives a clue about that particular story,and its for us to find out.

To me these verses show why Prophet (peace be upon him)is indeed a perfect example for humanity.You see the problems ,reactions to them are familiar to everyone and corrections from Allah the most high through His commands reflects how Allah guides in each and every issue to his servants .
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 10, 2007  -  1:35 PM Reply with quote
66:1 O PROPHET! Why dost thou, out of a desire to please [one or another of] thy wives, impose [on thyself] a prohibition of something that God has made lawful to thee? [1] But God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace:
----

Note 1 (Quran Ref: 66:1 )
There are several essentially conflicting - and, therefore, in their aggregate, not very trustworthy - reports as to the exact reason or reasons why, at some time during the second half of the Medina period, the Prophet declared on oath that for one month he would have no intercourse with any of his wives. Still, while the exact reason cannot be established with certainty, it is sufficiently clear from the above-mentioned ahadith that this emotional, temporary renunciation of marital life was caused by a display of mutual jealousy among some of the Prophet's wives. In any case, the purport of the above Qur'anic allusion to this incident is not biographical but, rather, intended to bring out a moral lesson applicable to all human situations: namely, the inadmissibility of regarding as forbidden (haram) anything that God has made lawful (halal), even if such an attitude happens to be motivated by the desire to please another person or other persons. Apart from this, it serves to illustrate the fact - repeatedly stressed in the Qur’an - that the Prophet was but a human being, and therefore subject to human emotions and even liable to commit an occasional mistake (which in his case, however, was invariably pointed out to him, and thus rectified, through divine revelation).(Quran Ref: 66:1 )
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 10, 2007  -  1:36 PM Reply with quote
66:2 God has already enjoined upon you [O believers] the breaking and expiation of [such of] your oaths [as may run counter to what is right and just]: [2] for, God is your Lord Supreme, and He alone is all-knowing, truly wise.
---------
in certain circumstances an oath should be broken and then atoned for: hence the above phrase, "God has enjoined upon you the breaking and expiation" (with the term tahillah comprising both these concepts).(Quran Ref: 66:2 )
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 10, 2007  -  1:38 PM Reply with quote
66:3 And lo! [3] [It so happened that] the Prophet told something in confidence to one of his wives; and when she thereupon divulged it, and God made this known to him, he acquainted [others] with some of it and passed over some of it. [4] And as soon as he let her know it, she asked, "Who has told thee this?" [5] - [to which] he replied, "The All-Knowing, the All-Aware has told me."
------------
Lit., "he turned aside from [or "avoided"] some of it". There is no reliable Tradition as to the subject of that confidential information. Some of the early commentators, however, connect it with the Prophet's veiled prediction that Abu Bakr and Umar ibn al-Khattab would succeed him as leaders of the Muslim community; the recipient of the information is said to have been Hafsah, the daughter of Umar, and the one to whom she disclosed it, A'ishah, the daughter of Abu Bakr (Baghawi, on the, authority of Ibn Abbas and Al-Kalbi; also Zamakhshari ). If this interpretation is correct, it would explain why the Prophet "acquainted [others] with some of it and passed over some of it": for, once his confidential prediction had been divulged, he saw no point in withholding it any longer from the community; nevertheless, he alluded to it in deliberately vague terms- possibly in order not to give to the succession of Abu Bakr and Umar the appearance of all "apostolic sanction" but to leave it, rather to a free decision of the community in pursuance of the Qur'anic principle amruhum shura baynahum (see 42:38).(Quran Ref: 66:3 )

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