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Topic initiated on Tuesday, January 23, 2007  -  12:48 PM Reply with quote
R u s h d ism

Barkha: Some would say how does somebody like yourself, who is an atheist, who doesn't believe in God, get to be a keen observer of religion and Islam in particular. But before we get into the academic question of that, tell us the story of when you discovered that you didn't believe in God ?

Rushdie: It has to do with a ham-sandwich.

Barkha: The lure of a ham-sandwich?

Rushdie: When I went to boarding school in England, my parents were not being very observant. And one of the few things that did happen in our house was that there were no pigs to eat.

Barkha: Your grandfather was a devout believer.

Rushdie: Yeah, my grandfather went on a Haj and so on. My father really wasn't and my mother, until after my father died, she started acquiring Islam in her rheumatism.

Barkha: Did you say that to her and did she react kindly?

Rushdie: More or less yes. You know my mother had a great sense of humor, both my parents did actually and I think that is what partly I hope I have got some of it. Anyway I went to England, I went to boarding school, at that point I had never eaten ham, pork, bacon, any of that. And I remember sitting in a Latin school looking at the Rugby Chapel - Rugby Chappel is actually a very beautiful Neo-Gothic building, but at that point to my 14-year-old eyes, it didn't look beautiful, it looked pretty ugly and I was thinking, what kind of God lives in a house like that.

By the end of the Latin lesson I had convinced myself that the answer was that - no kind of God lived in a house like that, because it was just an empty house and at that point I realized that I had ceased to believe in anything divine. To celebrate this I went to the school shop and bought a ham sandwich, which now I am sure was an extremely poor ham sandwich.

Barkha: And did you like that ham sandwich?

Rushdie: At that time I liked it, you know..that the thunder bolt felt and strike me dead then and I thought that that is proof about the nonexistence of God. And that was kind of comic exaggeration in the beginning of the Satanic Verses, when Gabriel goes through one of the most cataclysmic loss of faith but he also celebrates his loss of faith by going to the Taj in Bombay, stuffing his face full of bacon.

your opinions plz?

Edited by: raushan on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:35 AM

Posted - Tuesday, January 23, 2007  -  9:06 PM Reply with quote
it is nonsense.

Posted - Wednesday, January 24, 2007  -  6:34 AM Reply with quote
brother salam

In my limited understanding of Islam. According to Quran, Allah time and again pointed to prophet pbuh, hidayat is not distributed. This life is a test, test of our ikhtiyaar( ability to make decisions within limits). ACcording to Amin Ahsen Islahi the pre requisites for hidayat are talab i hidayat i.e desire for awareness and azam i iradah steadfastness of intention.

The examples of Hazrat Ibrahim's father, Hazrat Nooh's son and hazrat Lut's wife and most of all prophet pbuh's uncle Abu Talib are clear reminders that Allah will give hidayat on merit and desire, the quality of dialogue and the Daii is not the only criteria.

The Qur'an also says that a blind and a person with eyes cannot be the same.

My understanding is that the one who seeks the truth with clean and pure intentions will be guided towards it.

Posted - Wednesday, January 24, 2007  -  9:41 AM Reply with quote
I agree,
infact,the posting was intended to give a first hand info to all about the nonesense ,this man speaks and writes.

nonesense is meant to ignore and not to take seriously,
this is the only way to counter.


Posted - Wednesday, January 24, 2007  -  9:42 AM Reply with quote
''...and ye shall certainly hear much that will grieve you, from those who received the Book before you and from those who worship many gods. But if ye persevere patiently, and guard against evil, then that will be a determining factor in all affairs.” (Aal-`Imran 3: 186)

Posted - Wednesday, January 24, 2007  -  10:16 AM Reply with quote
there is another type of nonesense,Ali sina who manipulates the original sources of Islam in the name of free thinking.


what should be the best way in this case?

Posted - Wednesday, July 18, 2007  -  1:10 PM Reply with quote
In an article that attempts such detailed analysis, it was very disturbing to find two errors in the presentation of the basics of Islamic thought. The author defines "sunna" as "the body of Islamic social and legal custom." This is incorrect. Sunnah is the example of Muhammad-- communicated both through the hadith literature and the practical example of the living Muslim community. Shariah, or Muslim Law, is the body of social and legal customs and behaviors. While the Shariah is partially derived from what is considered to be the sunnah of Muhammad, it also incorporates several methods, such as use of analogy, to apply that example to various situations. This appears
to be a significant error on the part of the author.

Another error is found in a quote from Gerd-R. Puin who questions the Qur’anic self- description of being "clear" when "every fifth sentence or so simply doesn’t make sense". This was shocking to me from an academic studying the Qur’an, for the Qur’an is quite explicit that some verses of the text are clear in meaning, but some are not clear in meaning. (Surah 3: Ayat 7) Indeed, Muhammad Asad, in his masterful and contemporary English commentary on the Qur’an states
that this passage "may be regarded as a key to understanding the Qur’an" and yet Puin seems to have completely ignored it in his assessment of the intelligibility of the Qur’an-- and clearly
misleads with his statement on the issue of clarity. One can only question the validity of Puin’s grasp of and awareness of the text. In addition, on the same point, Qur’anic Arabic is not the same as Modern Arabic. Are some of the sentences "incomprehensible" to Puin and others today because of a loss of ancient meanings and words due to the natural development of spoken Arabic? We don’t know, this important issue is not even mentioned.

Additional errors, or at least statements open to question, are made by the author in his understanding of the status of a translated Qur’an, the "doctrine" of abrogation, the understanding of what is actually done with Islamic symbols in Rushdie’s Satanic Verses, and a number of other not-so-minor points that need not be detailed here.


Posted - Saturday, July 21, 2007  -  5:42 PM Reply with quote
I visited some Western discussion forums and talked about Salman Rushdie and got there views on it.

They said that since Salman Rushdie is in England and has British Asylum ,he has the right to express his views as other citizens of UK and all the Westerns support freedom of speech.
They also said that muslims who protested against British Government because they gave a label of "Sir" to Rushdie proves that muslims are intolerant and donot support freedom of speech.

Now what are your comments on such statement of the Westerners?

Do you think that every individual has the right to express his view in such a way that they could even speak against others religion and make fun of there religious personality?

They said that i havent read the latest book of Rushdie thats why i donot know anything about it and according to them Rushdie got the title of "Sir" from British Government because he contributed to the English Literature.

Do you guys think that we should not object to British Government for giving the title of "Sir" to him since they have given this title just because he contributed to English Literature and not because he insulted Islam?

Has any of you read his latest book?

Would appreciate if you all give your views and comments?

Posted - Sunday, July 22, 2007  -  1:19 AM Reply with quote
it is only natural and justifiable to get angry and frustrated over this issue as true believers of islam. one must look at priorities and it seems Bristish Govt have either been very naieve that they did not consider millions of people belonging to muslim faith might get hurt and may not look at it from their point of view but rather felt justified to recognise his skills as a good writer that he must be awarded with the title of Sir. where does the human rights fit into this decision!! making one person happy at the cost of millions unhappy.
we must contact every institute/ organisations/ public via letters /emails to show our anger and concern over this wrong act of British govt.

Posted - Sunday, July 22, 2007  -  8:36 AM Reply with quote

Thank you brother for your views but don't you think that Rushdie has right to write a book and give his view points on any personality since this is what human rights mean?
If a Western comes to you and says that if you muslims didnot had human rights and religious rights then you would not have been freely practicing your religious duties in West and you donot have any limit of constructing mosques in the West, than what would be your reply?

If a Western comes to you and says that "you muslims talk about human rights and religious rights, do we westerns have religious and human rights in Saudia Arabia and some other Middle Eastern Countries? Can we practice our religion freely there?"
Than what would be your reply.

Posted - Sunday, July 22, 2007  -  8:49 AM Reply with quote

My dear brother we all muslims have love for Prophet(pbuh), even the most secular muslim will never say that what Rushdie has done is right and i argued with the Westerns on there discussion forum aggressively and tried to convince them that what Rushdie has done is wrong but they have there own views and comments.
According to there views and understanding West especially USA is a Country which was formed to escape Religious persecution and intolerance and every individual living in USA and Europe has the right to give his negative or positive views against any religious and spiritual personality.

Now you tell me brother, the question that Westerns ask arent sound and reasonable? Do Christians, Jews and Hindus have any right to practice there religion in Saudia Arabia and some other Islamic Countries?

Do you know brother that i read a report in 2001 that there are 140 mosques in Silicon Valley and 40,000 Computer Professionals were working there out of which 11000's were muslims and they had religious freedom there as well.
If Muslims donot have right in USA and West then how come even today muslims especially Pakistanis are dying to live in West like crazy?

How many US ,UK and other European citisens are dying like crazy to live in Pakistan, Saudia Arabia and other Middle Eastern Countries?

I am not supporting Rushdie here but once in a life time Muslims should become open minded and put aside there preconcieved ideas and try to think with large mind that what ever that is happening in Islamic country is even right or not?

Look at what happened at Lal Masjid ,even the Imam of Kabah was against the extremist and secterian attitude of the members of Lal Masjid and he even dissuaded them from what they were doing but they didnot listen and continued there extremist and secterian attitude.

I hope you understand my point and pls forgive me if any of my points here hurted your feelings, i am not an anti-muslim but let me tell you something frankly speaking they are non-muslims the Westerns but what i have seen is that they are pretty tolerant and have exposure and donot think with narrow minds.


Posted - Monday, July 23, 2007  -  1:13 AM Reply with quote
yes i agree with Student 1, human rights are best practiced in west especially uk and us. but we are discussing two different things here. unfortunately theres no democracy and law and order like the west in most muslim countries. these countries do not offer human rights to their own citizens, due to the corruption ,never mind worrying about the non muslim inhabitants.
my point is that the westners claim to be civilised nations. giving the title of sir to someone who may be a good writer as far as the language skills are concerned but who is ruthless enough not to realise the feelings of all those muslims who will find his book utterly offensive towards their faith and belief. Completly ignoring all the angry protests and awarding the title shows a very contradictory attitude and certainly casts doubts on a democratic society.

Posted - Tuesday, July 24, 2007  -  7:23 PM Reply with quote


Now you tell me brother how should we convince these extraordinary open minded western people?

How many Muslim authors have written books in reply to Rushdies book?

What about the 1st book that he has written? Has any Islamic Scholar or a muslim author written any book in response to his 1st book?

I donot mean to say that they are perfect and donot have any defect but what i have seen is that they are not intelligent and according to the survey , out of 100% nations of the world, 90% nations are dumb terminal which includes USA and other Western Countries.
I am sure that Germany is not included in these dumb terminals because they are pretty intelligent and most of the scientists of the Western world were Germans.

Some Americans are so ignorant ,they donot even know where is Canada and Mexico.

Do u agree with me brother or not?



Posted - Tuesday, July 24, 2007  -  7:28 PM Reply with quote

The reason why they are successful is because they are following an
organized life and a predefined order and it is a way to success.

They make planning in there life and have such an organized system that cannot be challenged by anyone.

They give great importance to time and money.


Posted - Monday, July 30, 2007  -  11:16 PM Reply with quote
salamz, student 1
i agree with second part of your reply, but please donot label any nation or country by calling them dumb. Its again another weekness of us as Muslims that we start getting angry and frustrated and then loose our "hosh" and let "josh" overtake and dont feel ashamed to demonstrate all this to the whole world.
our holy prophet Mohammed { peace be upon him ) has gone to inquire about the old lady's health when one day she did not throw garbage at him as usual.
we have to use intellect ( Hikmat amli ) and follow the practical lifestyle of our prophet ( pbuh )to tackle any issues, make some positive progress and put our point across in a decent manner. hope you wont be offended by my response.

Posted - Tuesday, July 31, 2007  -  2:40 PM Reply with quote
Shahidas, A very balanced and sensisble response indeed.I dont think anyone can get offended by what you have said.

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