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JunaidHasan

GERMANY
Topic initiated on Wednesday, May 31, 2006  -  8:26 PM Reply with quote
Regarding Homosexuality


- - -

Edited by: junaidhasan on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:57 PM
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, June 05, 2006  -  6:44 PM Reply with quote
How does the knowledge of the origin (genetic and non-genetic) of homosexuality guide us to learn the directives of our religion in both the cases?

OR

In learning Islam, what is the application of knowing the origin (genetic and non-genetic) of homosexuality?
JunaidHasan

GERMANY
Posted - Wednesday, June 14, 2006  -  4:06 AM Reply with quote
Deleted.

Edited by: junaidhasan on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:51 PM
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, June 14, 2006  -  3:23 PM Reply with quote
Unlike homosexuality cases (which SOME of them are forced by their genes), EVERYONE has the gene of attracting towards the opposite sex. So why some cultures, faiths etc react for example up to flogging or stoning etc, if somebody does something forced by his or her normal genes.

I mean to say, why a man and women are punished while they have full fledged normal sex genes in their bodies.
JunaidHasan

GERMANY
Posted - Wednesday, June 14, 2006  -  10:20 PM Reply with quote
Deleted.

Edited by: junaidhasan on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:52 PM
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Thursday, June 15, 2006  -  1:40 AM Reply with quote
question raised: if a man is genetically born as a “gay” then rather providing some way to fulfill his natural desire, why does Islam declare such a man as a sinner?

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=382

Human being, as a complete entity is divided into males and females. The mental, emotional and physical completion of humans is generally achieved through the combination of a male and a female. Homosexuality is based on a refutation of this obvious fact, and is, therefore, in contradiction with the very nature on which man has been created. Islam does not support anything that is, in anyway, contrary to the nature on which God created man.

Therefore, purely from an intellectual perspective, it can be said that homosexuality is NOT a religious prohibition, as far as Islam is concerned, but rather a natural prohibition. And natural prohibitions are of an equal, if not of more importance as compared to religious prohibitions.

*******************

In its answer it was said that the theory of “gay gene” has not gained any significant success in the scientific circle that is why to conclude anything on its basis is not worthwhile.

Most scientists believe it is a combination of nature and nurture i.e. genes and the environment. Even opponents of the gene theory will concede that orientation is fixed at a very early age.

So this indicates that orientation is beyond the control of an individual.

This is not just the opinion of present day scientists, which include two muslim scientists (google for Qazi Rahman in UK and Dr. Bannoura from Palestine) but previous muslim scientists like Ar Razi, Qusta Ibn Luqa and Hunain Ibn Ishaq.

Edited by: junaidj on Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:40 AM
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, June 15, 2006  -  6:08 PM Reply with quote
I think some non-technical people have heard, first time, of something like “genes” and their role in our body. They don’t know, “It is a universal truth that not only human body but also other vertebrate’s and avertebrate’s whole body is controlled by their genes”. For example, even a unicellular organism is compelled by its genes to cause the particular disease otherwise if there no gene of the disease, it is then quite harmless.

QUOTE: - Islam does not support anything that is, in anyway, contrary to the nature on which God created man.

If we emphasise on the “Nature” and adapt the natural ways, “In the ancient times, how was man, when living in the jungles?” Remember, that life was the natural life. Later on CIVILIZATIONS and the RELIGIONS corrected those ways of life otherwise man was No more different than animals (natural way of life).

Don’t anyone know, the religions, being called as a symbol of the nature, it itself interferes with natural ways of our body or life. See below, for example.

1. As I have mentioned in the previous post, attraction between the opposite sexes is natural but not allowed without any marriage.

2. Is it natural to limit men to four conditioned marriages? Naturally man is not happy with even five or more marriages. After sometime, naturally, he wishes a new wife but the religion interferes.

3. Eating and drinking is natural but in the fasting remaining hungry and thirsty is quite un-natural.

4. Is the restriction of eating pork natural? If other humans are eating why not Muslims?

5. Circumcision is quite an un-natural way.

Similarly many other examples can be quoted. So the role of the religion is NOT ONLY meant to guide us to the natural ways exclusively because adapting the natural ways is our INNATE OR AN INBORN character. The role of the religion is to correct our ANIMALS LIKE NATURAL WAYS otherwise there is absolutely NO need of any religion.

If some people have gazed specially at this particular gene, it’s ok- the possibility of presence of the homosexuality gene might be there. But what is about the huge list of the other genes in the human body, which govern different acts (social or antisocial, religious or non- religious) of the human body? And what will be the decision of the intellectuals, if the genes of bestiality, which might not be impossible, are discovered?

QUOTE: - First, please visit the following website if you have little or no knowledge of the genes:
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/units/basics/tour/

See please the following few conclusive points of the article you pointed out:

1. In recent years, the scientific reports that originally proposed the existence of the SO-CALLED gay gene have been SERIOUSLY questioned and DISCREDITED.

2. These studies suggest that CONTRARY TO CLAIMS advanced by gay activists, homosexually active persons as a group appear to be less psychologically healthy than the general population.

3. “Thus, as the authors of the 2000 paper conclude, it is VERY DIFFICULT TO DISTINGUISH the genetic from the environmental influences on sexual orientation”.

4. “For one, numerous reports have now shown that homosexual behavior is MORE COMMON IN ANIMALS than previously suspected”.

5. “The revisionist argument that attempts to use evidence from biology to justify homosexual activity is FLAWED because it fails to acknowledge that we are embodied persons, with both spiritual and biological inclinations that need to be respected and realized”

6. Regardless of what happens elsewhere in the animal kingdom, both rape and homosexual BEHAVIOR ARE INCOMPATIBLE with an authentic understanding human personhood. They are UNNATURAL because both are VIOLATIONS OF OUR NATURES as embodied spiritual creatures. Both fail to realize the total self-gift of persons that ought to accompany every sexual act. WE ARE PERSONS and this makes all the difference in the world.

7. “In sum, all the scientific evidence to date has NOT CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN that genes determine homosexual orientation in human beings. The existence of a human gay gene remains a scientific myth. THUS GAY ACTIVISTS ARE INCORRECT when they insist that science has proven that an individual with homosexual inclinations is “born that way.”

CONCLUSION (of the article “The Myth of the Gay Gene” with the same words)

1. At the time of this writing, there is still NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE that homosexuality is genetically determined. Thus, it is STILL IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW whether someone who has homosexual inclinations was in fact “born that way.”

2. Finally, the claim that homosexuals are as mentally healthy as heterosexuals is simply not true. Though the source of the psychopathology is not yet clear, homosexual activity is associated with higher rates of depression, anxiety disorder, conduct disorder, substance abuse and suicide.

***************************************

I suggest to get help of the concerned qualified technical people otherwise such self decisions (without any special knowledge) which are always WRONG are the basic cause of the DISAGREEMENTS between the Muslims.

Wassalaam!
JunaidHasan

GERMANY
Posted - Thursday, June 15, 2006  -  9:00 PM Reply with quote
Deleted.

Edited by: junaidhasan on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:53 PM
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Friday, June 16, 2006  -  12:03 AM Reply with quote
If some people are genetically inclined towards homosexuality, many men are inherently inclined towards having physical relations with attractive women.

which is why some men are asked to remain celibate and many men are highly encouarged to marry.

*************

Who did ever say that humans are not inclined towards sin; if sin did not have any inducement, why would we do it, and what would be our test?

Perhaps this inducement to sin explains the following.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_18-1-2004_pg7_43

FORT ABBAS: A mutilated body of a six-year-old girl was found near a remote village situated in the Fort Abbas,

According to the autopsy report, the girl was gang-raped before being brutally murdered and dismembered.

***************

But, does this mean that our inclination is then the justification for the sin?

I believe there is a difference between inclination and orientation.

The late Dr. Zaki Badawi indicates that many top muslim religious leaders in the present or past are gay or have had homosexual inclinations.

which would include Ibn Hazm, Ibn Daud, Ibn Quzman, Ibn Al Farrah, Abu Nuwas, some Hanafi and Maliki scholars, and several Rectors of Al Azhar from 1500 - 1800 AD.

Presently two Imams are openly gay. Imam Daayie Abdullah and Muhsin Hendricks.

Please see Khaled El Rouhayeb's book on this.

***********

So far as Trivializing homsoexuality is concerned, the first person to do so was Imam Abu hanifa, who differed with Hanbalis in that the punishment is tazir (at most 39 lashes) and not hadd.

Later Ibn Hazm reduced it from 39 to 10 lashes.

Still later scholars at Al Azhar indicated that minor sins even if deliberately done are overcome by superorgatory works.

And presently Imam Khaleel Mohammad has called for re-interpretation, Dr. Zaki Badawi supported chaste civil unions, Dr. Amina Waddud, Dr. Siraj Al Haqq, Sheikh Dr. Muhammad Yusuf, and Abdel Nour - Secretary General of Islamic Comission of Spain, the Canadian Muslim Congress and Progressive Muslim Union all have either called for a re-evaluation/debate and/or affirmed gay marriage.

I suppose as we understand the phenomenon, so has the approach of scholars evolved.

Edited by: junaidj on Friday, June 16, 2006 12:14 AM
JunaidHasan

GERMANY
Posted - Friday, June 16, 2006  -  12:30 AM Reply with quote
Deleted.

Edited by: junaidhasan on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:54 PM
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Friday, June 16, 2006  -  12:52 AM Reply with quote
please try to avoid explicitly taking the names of such people even if they have declared themselves as homosexuals.

I am afraid that would lead more religious scholars to pounce on more children as no one would be there to check on them.

Feel free to write to me at junaid@ualberta.ca

Edited by: junaidj on Friday, June 16, 2006 12:54 AM
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Friday, June 16, 2006  -  2:11 AM Reply with quote
But what is about the huge list of the other genes in the human body, which govern different acts (social or antisocial, religious or non- religious) of the human body?

My question is is there a genetic explanation for the following? Is there a gene that will explain why some people gang rape a 6 year old and then cut her body into pieces?

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_18-1-2004_pg7_43

FORT ABBAS: A mutilated body of a six-year-old girl was found near a remote village situated in the Fort Abbas,

According to the autopsy report, the girl was gang-raped before being brutally murdered and dismembered.
JunaidHasan

GERMANY
Posted - Friday, June 16, 2006  -  6:52 PM Reply with quote
Deleted.

Edited by: junaidhasan on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:54 PM
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Friday, June 16, 2006  -  9:40 PM Reply with quote
feel free to email me and we can discuss this in detail.

take care :)

Edited by: junaidj on Friday, June 16, 2006 9:39 PM
Puppy

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, June 20, 2006  -  5:36 PM Reply with quote
Salaam!

If the science is still helpless to establish confirmation of the genes, such topics are no more than to spread the confusions and the poison of hatred among the muslims. So we must be vigilant.

A QURANIC VERSE [49.6] O you who believe! If an evil-doer comes to you with a report, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you have done.

A HADITH: Enough is for the one to be liar who spreads the information without its proper knowledge and confirming it.
marwan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, June 20, 2006  -  9:02 PM Reply with quote
Homosexuality is not genetic.

Allah specifically makes clear that homosexuality is a choice, by making it forbidden and for telling us that they took men instead of the women created for them.

Before you speak in ignorance on this topic please read the information first, please visit the following websites: -

www.narth.com
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/index.html
www.mygenes.co.nz

salaam

Edited by: marwan on Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:25 PM

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