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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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 Posted - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 10:38 PM
Dear Shaan:
Yes, you are right. What you referred to is mentioned in the course, top of the list of the Sunan, in these words:
“1. To eat and drink with the right hand after saying ‘Bismillah ir Rahman ir
Rahim’ (In the name of Allah the Beneficent and Merciful). This practice
extends to doing everything that is lawful in Islam. It is meant to remind the
Muslims about the fact that on the Day of Judgment the virtuous would be
given their account of deed in their right hands and would be honored. On the
other hand the non-believers and evildoers would be given their deed account
in their left hands and would be the losers. (Al Inshiqaq 84 and Al Haqqah 69).”
The above clearly shows that it is not only eating or drinking with the right hand after saying “Bismillah” which is Sunnah but the very Sunnah also includes carrying out all the activities that are lawful in Islam in the same manner. It is obvious that we would not urinate or defecate by saying “Bismillah” or wash our sex organs with the right hand that is why it is not explained above. However, you have explained it and I am thankful to you for making it more clear.
Love and peace.
Sincerely,
Junaid Hassan |
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Shaan
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 11:05 AM
what about the status of the following acts :
1). Praying two rakats after ablution(wudu) and two rakats prayer of greetings to the mosque.
2). Giving answer to the moazin's adhan and saying dua after hearing adhan.
3). Duas on different ocassions like setting out to travel,entering and leaving mosque,washroom,etc.... |
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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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Posted - Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 11:40 PM
Umar bin Khattab (RA) says:
"The Sunnah is that which Allah approved of and Allah's Messenger (SAW) practiced. Do not make your false comprehension a Sunnah for Ummah."
(P: 37, Should A Muslim Follow A Particular Madhab?, Sheikh Muhammad Sultan Al-Masoomi, Maktaba Dar-us-Salam 1998)
He says two things here:
1. The Sunnah is what Allah approved.
2. The Sunnah is what the Prophet (SAW) “practiced”.
One thing is for sure that the Sunnah refers to the practice.
However, a question rises about the first point:
Did Allah approve all the acts of the Prophet (SAW) or the Religious acts only?
The answer, undoubtedly, for me is: The Religious acts only because the Holy Prophet (SAW) says:
“I’m a human being after all, when I order you something about your D’in, take it, and when I tell you something out of my own opinion, my status is not more than this that I am a human being… I told you something out of guess. Do not accuse me of such things which are based on guess and personal opinion. Though when I say something from Allah then take it because I will never ascribe falsehood to Allah… You know your worldly deeds better.”
(Muslim, 2263, 2361, 3262)
The above hadith clearly tells that the Holy Prophet (SAW) had personal opinions in his life and he used to make guesses too which were not approved from Allah T’ala. Had they been approved by the Almighty, there would have been no err in them.
Therefore, I believe that Sunan are only the Religious acts of the beloved Prophet (SAW).
I want to mention another very important point here that if any of the personal act of the Prophet (SAW), for instance, liking and eating pumpkin is proved unhealthy today, the Prophet (SAW) cannot be accused for this because it is something out of his personal liking and disliking that he never asked anyone to follow religiously.
If the above saying of Sayadna Umar (RA) is true, he has best defined the Sunnah. If anyone wants to prove any of the above sayings wrong, one is most welcome or, in any case, if one still wants to hold another view about the Sunnah, know that Allah T’ala has given everyone right to hold any viewpoint in this world for which one is surely answerable at the Judgment’s Day.
J.
Edited by: JunaidHasan on Saturday, July 15, 2006 1:46 AM |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, July 14, 2006 - 5:45 AM
Quote:-I want to mention another very important point here that if any of the unreligious act of the Prophet (SAW), for instance, disliking and avoiding the onion is proved unhealthy today, the Prophet (SAW) cannot be accused for this because it was something out of his personal opinion: liking and disliking that he never asked anyone to follow.
Reply:-I would appreciate if you could show any athuantic evident which show that Prophet(pbuh)
1)dislike the onoin
2)not use to eat
3)He never ask to follow any one.
As these (three) apparent from yours quote
Thanks |
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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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Posted - Friday, July 14, 2006 - 6:26 PM
Brother Usmani:
With due respect, I will surely come to it. I knew that you would attack this very statement of mine. But, I think, it would’ve been better if you commented on the major points in my last three postings so that we could conclude the main topic in discussion that is “Wrong Understanding of Sunnah in this Course”.
And excuse me, it’s you who have to prove that the Prophet (SAW) asked his companions to follow his personal opinions, liking and disliking. I have already mentioned a Hadith from Sahi of Muslim (RA) in my favour (Muslim, 2263, 2361, 3262).
Here is one of the Ahadith about the onion:
“Ali-bin-Abdullah narrated Hadith to me, Abu-Sufwan Abdullah-bin-Saeed narrated Hadith to him, Yunus told him, whom Ibn-e-Shahab told whom Ata told that Jabir-bin-Abdullah used to say that the Prophet (SAW) said: whoever has eaten garlic or onion (and has smell in his mouth), he should keep away from us or (said that) keep away from our mosque.”
(Sahi Bukhari, Kitab-al-Atimah, Chapter No. 272, Hadith No. 417)
Please also see the Hadith No. 416 which discusses the similar topic.
(Though it is not the thing in discussion but still I want to make it clear that a Muslim should not feel, in the light of the above Hadith, that eating the onion or garlic is forbidden. The subject matter in the above Hadith is neither the onion nor garlic but “the bad smell that produces in one’s mouth specially after eating something like the onion or garlic”. Remember that cleaning the mouth is a Sunnah. Therefore, whenever a Muslim eats something that produces smell in his mouth, he should clean it before any public gathering. The Holy Prophet (SAW) hated the bad smell so much that once he vowed to prohibit the honey on himself because two of his wives (RA) complained that it produced smell in his mouth. However, that complain had a special purpose behind it. The two wives (RA), in fact, were jealous of another (RA) who used to give the Prophet (SAW) honey to eat. Anyway, the Qur’an ordered the Prophet (SAW) to break his vow and he did so. On the other hand, the Prophet (SAW) liked cleaning the mouth so much that he wished to make it necessary for a Muslim to do “miswak” with the ablution for the prayers. However, he didn’t do so in order to keep the ablution simple and easy.)
In anyway, leaving the general subject of our discussion and holding onto something like onion is extremely weird. I mentioned the onion as an example and it should be taken only as an example, however, it was not a very good example of the personal disliking because the Religious objection about the onion is that it produces the bad smell in one’s mouth. Let me change the example a little so that there remains no objection:
“I want to mention another very important point here that if any of the personal act of the Prophet (SAW), for instance, liking and using a certain perfume is proved unhealthy today, the Prophet (SAW) cannot be accused for this because it is something out of his personal liking and disliking that he never ordered anyone to follow religiously.”
(I have modified the example in the previous posting as well so that no confusion remains in that anymore.)
Now let us get back to the real subject of discussion that is not the onion example but “the understanding of the Sunnah”. Hope to listen from you soon about my last three postings on the very subject.
Thanks.
Sincerely,
J.
Edited by: JunaidHasan on Saturday, July 15, 2006 1:51 AM |
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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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Posted - Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 2:33 AM
Dear Shaan:
"Praying two rakats after ablution(wudu)..."
If the two rakhats (after ablution) are of an obligatory prayer then both the ablution and the prayer are a Sunnah otherwise not a separate Sunnah but an extention of the Sunnah of Salah.
I am not sure of what you meant by: "two rakats prayer of greetings to the mosque."
Brother Tariq Hashmi has beautifully elaborated the practice of ablution in the following discussion:
"Wudu was performed before the verse of the wudu was revealed. Like the prayer and the fasting it is also a practice established by the Prophet (Sws) as part of the religion. It is only after the people started neglecting the practice and spoiling the order that the Almighty brought it here in the Qur’an. Once the issue has been discussed in the Qur’an, it has outlined all the basic requirements in this regard. Washing the organs three times or rinsing the mouth and the nose is nothing but the Prophet’s way of washing the face perfectly. We follow him for he knew better then we know but we do not say that if one does not rinse the mouth and nose then his wudu is not valid."
(www.studying-islam.org, Course Forums > General Discussion > The Qur'an and the Sunnah)
The other acts that you mentioned are of the uswa-i-hasana of our dear Prophet (SAW).
The following would be of help to you:
"When a religious matter is primarily Qur’anic in source, and the Holy Prophet (sws) has followed it faithfully, he is actually presenting the proper way of implementing the Qur’anic command. He is there presenting to us his Supreme Model (Uswah i Hasanah).
The other category of teachings of the Holy Prophet (sws) arise when he explains and interprets the Qur’anic message.
Both of these are not found in the Sunnah but in the Hadith Literature."
(Understanding the Sunnah, Module 3, Page 3)
I have tried to answer your question to the best of my understanding; however, it is not necessary for you to follow any of my verdicts.
Thanks.
J.
Edited by: JunaidHasan on Saturday, July 15, 2006 3:04 AM |
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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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Posted - Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 3:12 AM
Question: Has there any single reference in the Nobel Quran from which it can be appered that we should follow men-made hadith besides Quran?
[53:3] 'Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire'. If he didn't speak on his own initiative then why is there so much attributed to him?
According to Sunni hadith (Ahmed, Vol.-1, page-171, Muslim Vol.18, page-229) it is also said that "Do not write down anything of me except the quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it"
Answer: Of course the Prophet (Sws) never urged the companions to write his sayings and even forbade them from doing so in the beginning for at that time people could mix the Qur’an with his sayings which is not Qur’an. Later on he allowed some people to write some of his sayings if they wanted to. But we must be sure of the fact that the Prophet (sws) never went against the Qur’an or the Sunnah (established practice). It is also equally important to know that the Qur’an requires us to follow the Prophet (Sws) unquestionably. It is only the lack of reliability that we do not consider the Hadith a basic course of the religion. Who would dare to go against the Prophet (Sws) if he gave his own opinion and required them to follow it? His understanding of the Qur’an and his practice on its directives are surely error free. For if he erred the Almighty would correct him and thus his ijtihaad is also secured and approved by the Almighty.
(Tariq Hashmi, studying-islam.org, Course Forums > General Discussion > The Qur'an and the Sunnah)
Brother Usmani, look at the Hadith quoted at the top. Now if we separate the very hadith from its circumstances it appears that the Prophet (SAW) forbade his companions (RA) to write his sayings which is not true for all of his life. This is the reason why I was telling you that the circumstances in which a hadith is said are extremely important.
I hope you have understood my point well now.
Yours Brother,
J.
Edited by: JunaidHasan on Saturday, July 15, 2006 3:21 AM |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 5:06 AM
Brother Junaid Hasan
Brother blieve that I am not here to attack on any one.This is not the way of Prophet(pbuh) Sabah and the religious peoples after them.
As you told,we are here to discuss and learn the religion in the positive way from each other.
The people of this website are beutifull people.they follow the Prophet(pbuh) way to preched the deen to others.Very camly and with hikmah.
This website gave me opertunity to learn the deen through the discussion with others.
I am a human some time i wrote things which you didn't liked.I will keep doing it, not to let you down but to make you understand my point.I am learning so many things from you as well.
My request from you is that, please ponder little bit on my replies before answering them.I will catch you in the discussion very soon Insha Allah.Be ready
Allah Hafiz.
Edited by: usmani790 on Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:14 AM |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 9:29 AM
Dear Brother Junaid Hasan
Assalam Alikum
You wrote:-Dr. Israr Ahmad, that you mentioned above in your list, stated that a Bukhari Sharif’s Hadith may be questioned. (Aaj TV, Program: Aaj Islam, Islami Rayasat)
What is questioned, we all know that, it cannot be the basic source of the D’in.
Reply:-Did Dr.Israr said that as well or who else said that beside him.Please before giving your list,make sure only on own part that you didn’t ascribe any thing to some one wronly.This is only a request.
Quote:-I am not trying to say here that, on the basis of this point, all the Ahadith of Sahi Bukhari and Muslim etc. are fruitless. No doubt, they have a great importance and all the authentic ones are necessary to follow, however, they are purely the explanation of the Qur’an and Sunnah and do not add to the contents of these two basic sources.
Reply:-This not that important that these authentic one must called Sunnah.What important as you said (No doubt, they have a great importance and all the authentic ones are necessary to follow).Its good to hear from you.
Quote:-How can something be a basic source whose authenticity may be questioned?
Reply:-Don’t conculde your own this.If some to whom your have trust also on the same view point then its ok..Don’t conclude things your own on the sayings of some great personalities take the opinion of some learned one.
Point No. 2:
I wrote, “Prophet (pub) used to do rafa-yadain but latter due to the some reason He stops doing it. Afterward He used to pray without raga-yadain. This might be the reason that he did not select it.”
You wrote:-I have already presented the basic reason why Imam Abu Hanifa (RA) did not adopt rafa-yadain. You still have not answered my basic question: Didn’t Imam Abu Hanifa (RA) ignore all the authentic Ahadith of Sahi Bukhari in the matter of rafa-yadain and give more importance to the Hadith of Hadrat Ibn-e-Masood (RA)? Whatsoever the reason may be, say yes or no.
Reply:- No
Prophet(pbuh) send some of the sahabah to some where and ask them to performed the Asar prayer on some particuler place.What happened before they could reach there the time of Asar already approched.Some of sahaba decide since the time of Asar is already approached and there is no chance that we can reached there before Asar so we should performed Asar prayer as this also obligatary to performed prayer to specific timimg.Some other sahabah have the different opinion that since prophet ask us to performed Asar there,so we must performed there.
When they all came back from the journey and explained to Prophet(pbuh) what they have done.Prophet(pbuh) told them that both were on Haq.
Point No. 3:
You wrote:-Rafa-yadain is rejected in Hanafi school of thought. You cannot challenge such a great reality of time.
Reply:- I hope that Point 2 will help you to understand it better.
Point No. 4:
I wrote, “If you still think that Ahadith are not the basic source so what I would say that it blindly following this team.I have said earlier also that this team is creating doubts for Ahadith.The result are coming very fast.”
You wrote:-I wonder what you mean by “blind following”? I have not even blindly followed Allah T’ala, how would I do such a thing in the case of this team? I have been presenting a number of reasons why I differentiate between Hadith and Sunnah and you have put it all in a dustbin saying that I am a blind follower.
Reply:-Like this team you only presenting your own reasons,you have no backing of Quran and Sunnah for that so far.If you will show me from Quran and Sunnah I will never do such thing what I have done with your own words.
Remember that I am saying this for what you are saying that(Ahadith are not the basic source of deen)
You wrote:-Well, if this is your opinion about me, I do respect it but you are surely held responsible for saying this in Allah’s court.
Reply:-If you could show it from Quran and Sunnah and if still I would not accept it then you can say that.Your or this team’s words are not Hujjat for any one.
Point No. 5:
“I wrote,
(Quote from this cource)
.The body of words and sounds contained in the Holy Qur'an
• The body of practices constituting the Sunnah
And it is within these two that the entire Islam is preserved.”
You wrote:-There is absolutely nothing wrong with the above statement, I already explained why.
Reply:-What you had explaind regarding so important issue of deen through yours own words again.Don’t you thick this important issue must have explained in Quran and Sunnah?
You wrote:-You also referred to, “Quote of Brother Tariq:- Without the Hadith nothing falls short in my religion.”
I already have criticized Brother Hashmi for such a sentence in the following words:
“But, at the same time, I think one should completely avoid such sentences (as they seem to convey dual meaning) or they should be explained thoroughly: "Without the Hadith nothing falls short in my religion."
Reply:-Could you please again ask him to explained it thoroughly.So every one have the clear picture what he meant by saying so.I think it is very important.
Point No. 6:
I wrote, “To the best of my knowledge,a person must stick to any Madahb he is following.This is not good thing to do to follow some part of this and some other Madhab.”
You wrote:-This is purely the definition of “blind following” (what you have been ascribing to me). One school of thought cannot be correct in understanding all parts of the D’in. In some matters, for instance, Imam Abu Hanifa (RA) would be more close to the Quran and Hadith whereas in some others Imam Malik (RA). D’in belongs to Allah T’ala. These scholars only present their own interpretation of Allah’s Din; it is not obligatory for any Muslim to follow any one of these scholars in all aspects of the D’in.
Rely:-I said on the matter of Rafa-yadain since what Imam Abu Hanifah adopted also based on hadith as you mentined it as well.
What I ment that the If there is no reference from Quran and Sunnah and one have rely on the Imam’s view so its better to stick the Imam one you are following.Bellow I have copy from my post from page No 1.
IMAM ABU HANIFAH was asked: "What do we do if we find a saying of yours opposing the Book of God?" He replied: "Leave my saying and stick to the Book of God." The questioner asked: "What if it contradicts a saying of the Prophet?" Abu Hanifah said: "Leave my saying in the face of the Prophet's saying." Again he was asked: "What if it goes against the saying of a Companion?" Again he said: "Leave my saying in the face of the Companion's saying." (Reported in Al-Qawl al-Mufeed by Shawkani.) Imam Abu Hanifah also declared: "My way (Arabic: madh-hab) is whatever hadith (saying of the Prophet) that is proved to be authentic." (Shami 1:50, Al-Fulani in Iqaz, p. 62.)
Point No. 7:
I wrote, “So these prayers were adopted Prophet(pbuh) by his own and called his Sunnah.”
You wrote:-Imam Malik, Imam Shafa’e and Imam Ahmad-bin-Hambal (RA) call these additional prayers of the Prophet (SAW) “nawafil” or “supererogatory acts”.
Reply:- Agreed
Point No. 8:
I wrote, “I can not follow blindly to any one even the scholars to whom I have trust.”
You wrote:-:-But with due respect, you mentioned, “To the best of my knowledge,a person must stick to any Madahb he is following.” and “Yes I follow Hanafi Madhab…”
Reply:-I never said that I am following it blindy.If any one (like me) is not capable to extract the religion direct from Quran and Sunnah so its better for him to follow any of the established Madahb out four.Scholars of our times are doing that and scholars of past have also done that.
Who is I am then.Following statement will also puts some light on that with the help of Quran.
that not every Muslim can be a scholar. Scholarship takes a lot of time, and for the ummah to function properly most people must have other employment: as accountants, soldiers, butchers, and so forth. As such, they cannot reasonably be expected to become great ulama as well, even if we suppose that all of them have the requisite intelligence. The Holy Quran itself states that less well informed believers should have recourse to qualified experts: So ask the people of remembrance, if you do not know (16:43). (According to the tafsir experts, the people of remembrance are the ulama.) And in another verse, the Muslims are enjoined to create and maintain a group of specialists who provide authoritative guidance for non-specialists: A band from each community should stay behind to gain instruction in religion and to warn the people when they return to them, so that they may take heed (9:122). Given the depth of scholarship needed to understand the revealed texts accurately, and the extreme warnings we have been given against distorting the Revelation, it is obvious that ordinary Muslims are duty bound to follow expert opinion, rather than rely on their own reasoning and limited knowledge.
Point No. 9:
You wrote:-Consensus is not necessary. I respect your viewpoints and have no objection whatsoever you believe. I am only presenting the reasons in favour of my viewpoint because, time and again, you have been calling it “wrong”.
Reply:-I thank you for respecting my view points.
Point No. 10:
I wrote, “If you don’t like Molana Maududi or any one else don’t like him why so I should removed his nam.He was the one of the leading schalor of the world of his time.Any way if you like Molana Yusuf Ludhayanvi,read his work regarding Sunnah I am sure that there will be no diffrece his understaning and Molana Maudoodi understanding as far as Sunnah is concerned.”
You wrote:-Oh my goodness! When did I say that I do not like Maulana Maududi (RA)? I mentioned his name in my list because he differentiates between the Hadith and Sunnah and, therefore, belongs to the school of thought that I follow in this regard.
Reply:-I am posting translation of his book,the one I had mentioned to you.This actually I had posted in the forum(Concept of Sunnah) few months back.I leave the decision on you,weather he should be in your list or mine.
Quote from the book of Maulana Maudoodi Sahib(RA)
(Sunnat Ki Aaeini Haisiyat)
There were known sunnah which were implemented from the Masjid to homes, in the market places, in the courts of law, at the Government level, international politics all the departments of public affairs have been implemented in the life of Prophet (pbuh). Later on from the time of Kulfa-e-Rashadeen till this era, there is no gape
Besides these known Sunnah there were another kind of Sunnah, which were not famous and not familiar in the society in the Prophet (pbuh)life. Which in various time periods and which were based on, like the known sunnah on rulings, sayings, speeches, approvals and to witness the actions were known by some individuals and these sunnah were unknown commonly in the society. These Sunnah were spread within various peoples. The ummah has started to collect these Sunnah from those individual right after the death of Prophet (pbuh).
People from all walks of life were very keen to know the Sunnah of Prophet (pbuh)before deciding and before taking any action of their routine problems by their own in their circle. Before deciding their own, they wanted to know that there may be some commands already given by Prophet (pbuh) on that,so they must follow them.
Looking at this need, they search all those, whom have some knowledge of Sunnah.Those who have this knowledge, they also felt the to convey this knowledge of Sunnah to others is essential.
This is the starting point of Ahadiths, which started from 11 Hijra to third and forth century to provide these unknown Sunnah to the ummah. Almost all the efforts to corrupt them were made unsuccessful.
You wrote:-Maulana Yusuf Ludhayanvi (RA) is of the view that you hold. And he has strongly criticized Maulana Maududi (RA) in his book: Ikhtalaf-e-Ummat
Reply:-Maulana Yusuf Ludhanvi were not in my list.Thanks for adding him to my list any way.I knows hundreds of other qualified religious personals, I am sure they should be having the same view point on Sunnah as Taqi Usmani Sahib,but since I never heart them talking on the Sunnah,So I am not putting their names on my list.
Yours list
1. Hadrat-e-Ayesha (RA)
2. Imam Hamid-ud-Din Farahi (RA)
3. Maulana Amin Ehsan Islahi (RA)
4. Maulana Maududi (RA)
5. Javed Ahmad Ghamidi
6. Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman
7. Prof. Khawar Butt
These are the scholars that I individually know; there would be a number of others with the same viewpoint.
Reply:-I will request you to please take out the name of Mother Ayesha from the list as this not yet established what was the her understanding of Sunnah.
Secondly since Maulana Maudoodi Sahib view are same as mine presented view on Sunnah so he must be on mine list not your.Now I am afraid that weather the others views on Sunnah have been checked by you correctly or not.At least I can say about Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman’s view on Sunnah shold be different from you.You have lost the reliability by putting Maula Maudoodi’s name on your list.
Point No. 11:
I wrote, “So Ahadith are Sunna in the eye of our Prophet(pbuh).”
You wrote:-This is not acceptable now! Do not ascribe things to the Prophet (SAW) which he has not believed in.
Reply: -Atleast I am showing ahadith to see how Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions looked at Sunnah.You only assuming what prophet (pbuh) believed.
Here is the Hadith:
“Narrated Hudhaifa: Allah's Apostle said to us, "Honesty descended from the Heavens and settled in the roots of the hearts of men (faithful believers), and then the Quran was revealed and the people read the Quran, (and learnt it from it) and also learnt it from the Sunna." Both Quran and Sunna strengthened their (the faithful believers') honesty. (See Hadith No. 208) (Sahih Bukhari Book #92, Hadith #381)”
You wrote:-Even if I agree with your interpretation of the above Hadith i.e., “Learning the honesty” is mentioned there, it does not nullify any of my claims. Tell me why honesty cannot be learnt from the Sunnah? Each sunnah is a masterpiece of honesty towards Allah, by seeing and adopting it, one should learn the true meaning of honesty.
For example, you can learn driving by watching a driver as well as practically doing how he does. I mean, why do you believe that things cannot be learnt by the practical matters?
Reply:-Surely we also learn honesty from the establised Sunnah.This course explained Sunnah is part of my believed Sunnah.We learned honesty from both.
You wrote:-Now, look at the very Hadith as it is mentioned in the Sahi Bukhari:
“Ali-bin-Abdullah narrated to me, to whom Sufyaan narrated that he asked from Eimash then he narrated from Zaid-bin-Wahb that he listened from Huzaifa (RA) that the Holy Prophet (SAW) said that “al-amanah” descended from the heaven upon the roots of some people’s hearts and when the Holy Quran revealed, they read the Holy Quran and acquired the knowledge of the Sunnah.” (Para No. 29, Kitab-al-E’itisam, Hadith No. 2)
I think there is much difference the way you quoted this Hadith and the way it is presented in the Sahi Bukhari. I am very sad to see this difference.
Reply:-Yes there is little diffrence but there could be many reasons for that.No need to sad brother.
Point No. 12:
I wrote, “how can we obey and follow Sunnah if not to obey and follow the Ahadith.”
You wrote:-You do not even know our basic point regarding the Sunnah. We can learn, obey and follow all the Sunan (from the circumcision to the offering of Hajj) through the practical consensus and continuity of the Ummah. However, once again I would mention that it does not mean that the Hadith has no importance.
Reply:-I am not rejecting what you said above.The ponit here to ponder is since we both believe that ahaith also brought by Prophet(pbuh) and as we learn honesty from the established Sunnah we also learn honesty from the ahadith.That’s why we still see the establihed Sunnah in the ahadith as well.
Hadtih “So this is the example of that person who obeys me and follows what I have brought (the Quran and the Sunna), and the example of the one who disobeys me and disbelieves the truth I have brought." (Sahih Bukhari Book #92, Hadith #387)”
You wrote:-First, please note that the Prophet (SAW) did not bring Sunnah. Sunan-e-Ibrahimi were already there that the Prophet (SAW) revived in their true sense.
Reply:- Prophet(pbuh) said as mentioned in many ahadith that he brought His Sunnah.You proving again and again that you are blindly following them.
Please don’t get angry this what the truth I felt and if I am not wrong it mentioned in the cource.If you think I am wrong and what you have said above is correct, please show me this from reliable source.(Quran and Sunnah)
Point No. 13:
I wrote, “Hadith:-If Allah wants to do a favor to somebody, He bestows on him, the gift of understanding the Quran and Sunna. I am but a distributor, and Allah is the Giver.
Brother if the word Sunna mentioned in this Hadith is not stand for the record of sayings and actions of Prophet(pbuh)(Ahadith),then please you tell me for what the word Sunna is stand for in this Hadith.”
You wrote:-To the best of my understanding, it is there to depict the religious acts of the Holy Prophet (SAW). The word Sunnah in Arabic is not used for the written record. How many times do we have to repeat this? If you still want to disagree, refute our claim and prove that the word Sunnah is used for the written material in Arabic.
Reply:-What Prophet(pbuh) used to say or act, He and His Sahaba used to call it His Sunnah.That’s why I have mentioned some the ahadith from Sahih Bukhari and Sunan Abu Daud for brothet Tariq.On Prophet (pbuh) life time few of his sayings and actions were written and later on most of the ahadith were written and complied. Including the established Sunnah.
Point No. 14:
Hadith:- Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "Do not wish to be like anybody except in two cases: The case of a man whom Allah has given wealth and he spends it in the right way, and that of a man whom Allah has given religious wisdom and he gives his verdicts according to it and teaches it." (Sahih Bukhari Book #92, Hadith #419)
I wrote:-Why you removed the contents in the brakets.Have you seen the orignal Hadith in Sahih Bukhari?
The person who used to give verdicts,is always a person who must have very good knowledge of Quran and Ahaith.That what he teaches to others as well.From where else one can get religious wisdom if not from Quran and Ahadith.”
You wrote: -Remember, the text in the brackets is not the part of the original text but an interpretation of it.
Reply:-Any way the interpretation was againt your concept of Sunnah.He was calling ahadith,Sunnah
You wrote:-Imam Shafa’e (RA) is of the view that “hikma” refers to the Ahadith. However not all the scholars believe in it as they think that “hikma” itself is present in the Qur’an.
See what Allah saying about Hikmah
Allâh has surely blessed the believers with His favor when He raised in their midst a Messenger from among themselves, who recites to them His verses and makes them pure and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, while they were, earlier in open error. (3:164)
So wisdom (Hikmah) is what Prophet (pbuh) teaches to the companions.
Point No. 15:
Hadith, “Narrated Sa'id bin 'Ubada Al-Ansari: that he consulted the Prophet about a vow that had been made by his mother who died without fulfilling it. The Prophet gave his verdict that he should fulfill it on her behalf. The verdict became Sunna (i.e. the Prophet's tradition). (Sahih Bukhari Book #78, Hadith #689)”
I am very sorry to say that the 78th book of Sahi Bukhari is “Kitab-al-Adab” and I could not find the above Hadith in whole of Kitab-al-Adab. Please give me the correct reference.
Reply:-Look in the book(Oaths and Vows) of Sahih Bukhari
Point No. 16:
You wrote:-Secondly, now I would doubt each and every Hadith that you would quote as I have found that a Hadith that you presented from Hadrat Huzaifa (RA), its words were quite different from the one present in Sahi Bukhari. And the other Hadith that you referred to “Kitab-al-Adab”, it is not there in it. If I am wrong, please correct me.
Reply:-please look in the book(Holding Fast to Quran and Sunna).I hope you will find it.
Point No. 17:
You wrote:-I have quoted the above Hadith to tell you that the Holy Prophet (SAW) emphasized on and held himself responsible for the Religious orders, nothing more.
Reply: -Religion is not only what this team has list down in this cource and definds that this what Sunnah is all about. Hakim-ul-Ummat Maula Ahraf Ali Thanvi has discribe the religion as follows.
Deen is mainly consisting of five basic things.
1) Iteyqadaat (Our believes)
2) Ibadaat (Rituals)
3) Maamlaat (Dealing with peoples)
4) Mashrat (Living with people in the society)
5) Ikhlaq (How to behave with people)
Prophet said:-
"I am leaving for you two things that you must uphold, the Quran and my Sunnah" (Muwatta 46.3).
There is no other thing Prophet left for us,and within these two, we find all the orders of Allah and His last Prophet (pbuh).There no third explanatory source. All the guidelines and orders are there for our whole life in these two.
Sincerely,
Sohail Usmani |
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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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Posted - Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 9:10 PM
Brother Usmani:
Wa’alaikumassalam-wa-Rehmatullah.
Abuse us as “munkareen-e-hadith”, “blind followers”, “the ones who ascribe wrong things to the scholars (in case of Dr. Israr Ahmad)”, “the ones who have lost the reliability (for ascribing falsehood to Maulana Maududi (RA))” “the ones who dislike Maulana Maududi (RA), or anything worse that you may like but know that you cannot prove any of these things scholastically. And remember, when the non-literals are ruled out on the scholastic grounds, they start abusing.
You have given us beautiful titles but please look what you have done as well:
1. I found a Hadith, in your posting, with a huge difference in its text as compared to the actual Hadith presented in Sahi Bukhari. (“al-amanah” descended from the heaven…”)
2. You said “No” when I proved that Imam Abu Hanifa (RA) did ignore all the authentic Ahadith of Sahi Bukhari in favour of rafa-yadain.
3. You have neither taken the Hadith of Sayyeda Ayesha (RA) nor provided any sound explanation of its meaning which may go in your favour.
4. You have not proved yet the falsehood or another explanation of the clear saying of Syadna Umar (RA) about the Sunnah that goes in our favour.
5. You have not nullified or provided another explanation of the clear Hadith of Sahi of Muslim (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) only ordered people to take religious things from him and not held him responsible for his personal opinions.
6. You have provided wrong references of the Ahadith.
Here are the answers of your direct blames on me as well as objections about my viewpoints, one by one:
ONE:
You wrote, “Did Dr.Israr said that as well or who else said that beside him.Please before giving your list,make sure only on own part that you didn’t ascribe any thing to some one wronly.This is only a request.”
Read the following that I translated for you, word by word, from the VCD of the TV Program:
“Rehan Ahmad Yusufi says: Dr. Sahab, there is a very famous Hadith whichever nation makes a woman its leader, it will perish… so how would it be done what you say?
Dr. Israr Ahmad: In regard to that Hadith, some people suspect if it is Sahi (excellent) or Modu (falsehood ascribed to the Prophet (SAW)).
Rehan Ahmad Yusufi: It is Bukhari’s narrative, Dr. Sahab.
Dr. Israr Ahmad: What?
Rehan Ahmad Yusufi repeats: It is Bukhari’s narrative.
Dr. Israr Ahmad says: Yes, but Bukhari’s narrative can also contain fault…
(Aaj TV, Aaj Islam, Episode: Islami Rayasat)
Isn’t it loud and clear?? Is there any objection left?? Now tell me why have you blamed me wrongly??
TWO:
You wrote, “This not that important that these authentic one must called Sunnah.What important as you said (No doubt, they have a great importance and all the authentic ones are necessary to follow).Its good to hear from you.”
Listen to me carefully now, we are not munkar-e-hadith. Okay? We learn a lot from Ahadith and the authentic ones are our Madhab. It is a literary debate if the Ahadith are the basic source or not. We have our reasoning in this case and you have yours. If you have eyes, read it carefully… something that I have mentioned many a time in my postings that “Hadith are the explanation of the Qur’an and Sunnah and any Hadith that is proved authentic is necessary upon us to follow.” Is it clear now?? I personally love my Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and I can die for fulfilling his Authentic Hadith. Do not dare to call anyone of us “munkar-e-hadith”. Okay?
THREE:
You wrote, “Don’t conculde your own this.If some to whom your have trust also on the same view point then its ok..Don’t conclude things your own on the sayings of some great personalities take the opinion of some learned one.”
For your information, I am not born blind. I can conclude various things on my own too. This is my basic right and all the learned people have had done this in their lives. Also know that I am extremely careful in my religious beliefs and attitudes that is why, to the best of my understanding, I have chosen the greatest scholar of this era for learning my religion, i.e., respected Javed Ahmad Ghamidi.
FOUR:
I asked, “Didn’t Imam Abu Hanifa (RA) ignore all the authentic Ahadith of Sahi Bukhari in the matter of rafa-yadain and give more importance to the Hadith of Hadrat Ibn-e-Masood (RA)?”
You wrote in the reply, “No”
People are not even afraid of speaking lies. Isn’t lie a great sin?? I wonder what to say more…
You further wrote in the end of a story, “When they all came back from the journey and explained to Prophet(pbuh) what they have done.Prophet(pbuh) told them that both were on Haq.”
I 100% agree. But the question was not this. The question was about “preferring one authentic Hadith, by Imam Abu Hanifa (RA), over the other authentic Ahadith”. Even a school-boy can understand this simple question.
(From the above story you concluded that two opinions may be correct too then why are you unable to understand that we both may be correct too?)
Allah curses on me if I called Imam Abu Hanifa (RA) or Imam Shafa’e (RA) wrong in the matter of rafa-yadain. Both have their sound reasoning for this matter. I know that, neither I am deaf nor blind or illiterate.
I had written, “Rafa-yadain is rejected in Hanafi school of thought. You cannot challenge such a great reality of time.”
You replied, “I hope that Point 2 will help you to understand it better.”
Whom are you trying to make a fool? I said rafa-yadain is rejected in Hanfi school of thought. It is a reality! I did not say that Imam Abu Hanifa (RA) invented an innovation in the D’in or something. I cannot dare to utter such a word for the exalted Imam (RA). I know he followed the Prophet (SAW) in the matter of rafa-yadain and so as Imam Shafa’e (RA). The point is that Imam Abu Hanifa (RA) ignored 15 authentic Ahadith and relied on another authentic Hadith (that was more reliable to him) in the matter of rafa-yadain.
FIVE:
You wrote, “Like this team you only presenting your own reasons,you have no backing of Quran and Sunnah for that so far.If you will show me from Quran and Sunnah I will never do such thing what I have done with your own words.
Remember that I am saying this for what you are saying that(Ahadith are not the basic source of deen)”
Ahadith were collected long after the death of the Prophet (SAW). Have you proved from the Qur’an and Sunnah that the Ahadith are the basic source? I am not a fool, okay? None of the ahadith that you mentioned says that the Ahdith are the basic source. It is your interpretation of those Ahadith that makes Ahadith a basic source. You know that a Hadith may be weak. How come something weak be a basic source? One Hadith that a scholar thinks is authentic; the other scholar may take it as weak according to his own research. Has anyone said something like: “Some parts of the Qur’an are weak while the other are more authentic according to my own understanding.” Why is it being said in the matter of Ahadith??
Again if the Ahadith are a separate source, why are they matched with the Quran and Sunnah for their truthfulness?
Once again I am mentioning here that generally Ahadith are not the exact words of Rasul-ullah (SAW) but the meanings of his sayings as understood by the narrators. This is a big reason why Ahadith cannot be taken as the basic source.
SIX:
You wrote, “If you could show it from Quran and Sunnah and if still I would not accept it then you can say that.Your or this team’s words are not Hujjat for any one.”
Leave this point of basic source because we both believe that a Hadith that is authentic to someone, it is necessary for one to follow.
There was a dispute between us that the Sunan are not practices. I have presented Sayadna Umar’s (RA) understanding in this regard.
There was a dispute that whether all the acts of the Prophet (SAW) are sunan or not. I have presented a clear Hadith of the Prophet (SAW) in this regard that he wanted people to take from him the religious things only. We have also presented Sayyada Ayesha (RA) Hadith in this case.
What else should I present?? I don’t want any “hujjat” on you. You have every right to keep any viewpoint but do not impose your viewpoints on all the Muslims.
SEVEN:
You wrote, “I am posting translation of his book,the one I had mentioned to you.This actually I had posted in the forum(Concept of Sunnah) few months back.I leave the decision on you,weather he should be in your list or mine.”
I did not lie as well. Let me present something in this regard too:
Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Ludhayanvi (RA) writes in his book, Ikhtalaf-e-Ummat Aur Sirat-e-Mustaqeem:
“Maulana Maududi’s ideology is this as well that Sunnah and Ahadith are two separate things. And the point what is different in these two, perhaps, Maulana himself may not explain it himself.”
(Page 170)
He further quotes Maulana Maududi (RA) on page 174 of the very same book:
This view of yours that to keep as much sized beard as the Prophet (SAW) kept is Sunnah or Uswa-e-Rasool means that you consider the habit of the Messenger a Sunnah for whose institution the Prophet (SAW) and the other Messengers (AS) were sent. To me, it is not enough that it is not the correct definition of Sunnah but I believe that to announce such things as Sunnah and then to insist on their following is a serious type of innovation and alteration in the D’in, due to which, very awful results had been immerging in the past and are feared to immerge in the future too.
(Rasayal-o-Masail, Part 1, P: 307, 308, 3rd edition, ’87)
EIGHT:
You wrote, “Reply:-I will request you to please take out the name of Mother Ayesha from the list as this not yet established what was the her understanding of Sunnah.”
I will immediately pull out her name if you prove that the Hadith that comes from her is falsely ascribed to the Prophet (SAW) or that it means something else than what we understood from it.
NINE:
You wrote, “At least I can say about Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman’s view on Sunnah shold be different from you.”
Here is what Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman believes:
“Mufti-Muneeb-ur-Rehman: …You have said three things that the Book of Allah, Sunnah and Hadith. First, I should make it clear that, in common connotation, Sunnah and Hadith are used as synonyms. They are taken in one meaning but when literal meanings come in, there is a little difference. Hadith, as the persons before me explained, are the sayings (aqwal), actions (af’al), affairs (ahwal) and reproving (taqreeyat) of the Prophet (SAW). Sunnah is also this but Sunnah means “at-tareeqa-tul-masnoqa-tu-fi-deen” that the part of the Prophet’s (SAW) teachings that is for the following of the Ummah. For example, at one time, having more than four wives in nikah is Hadith, it is saying of the Prophet (SAW), it is the affair of the Prophet (SAW) too but it is not the Sunnah that is practicable for the Ummah…”
(Geo TV, Alif, D’in Mai Hadeeth Ka Muqam)
TEN:
You wrote, “Yes there is little diffrence but there could be many reasons for that.No need to sad brother.”
Open your eyes and see if the difference is less or this much that the entire meaning of the Hadith is changed.
This is the Hadith in Bukhari Sharif:
““Ali-bin-Abdullah narrated to me, to whom Sufyaan narrated that he asked from Eimash then he narrated from Zaid-bin-Wahb that he listened from Huzaifa (RA) that the Holy Prophet (SAW) said that “al-amanah” descended from the heaven upon the roots of some people’s hearts and when the Holy Quran revealed, they read the Holy Quran and acquired the knowledge of the Sunnah.” (Para No. 29, Kitab-al-E’itisam, Hadith No. 2)
Look what your Hadith is like:
“Narrated Hudhaifa: Allah's Apostle said to us, "Honesty descended from the Heavens and settled in the roots of the hearts of men (faithful believers), and then the Quran was revealed and the people read the Quran, (and learnt it from it) and also learnt it from the Sunna." Both Quran and Sunna strengthened their (the faithful believers') honesty. (See Hadith No. 208) (Sahih Bukhari Book #92, Hadith #381)”
If you have any knowledge of English language, you should see the difference changing the whole meaning.
ELEVEN:
You wrote, “Prophet(pbuh) said as mentioned in many ahadith that he brought His Sunnah.You proving again and again that you are blindly following them.
Please don’t get angry this what the truth I felt and if I am not wrong it mentioned in the cource.If you think I am wrong and what you have said above is correct, please show me this from reliable source.(Quran and Sunnah)”
How easily you forget things. Look at this:
“And then we revealed unto you (the command) to follow the religion of Abraham, who was steadfast and was not one of the polytheists.” (16:123)
The Holy Prophet (SAW) took the traditions of Abraham (AS) and, after corrections and addition, instituted them in his followers as an integral part of their faith.
Sunan-e-Ibrahimi are evident from the Bible as well and all the other records of the history.
TWELVE:
You wrote, “What Prophet(pbuh) used to say or act, He and His Sahaba used to call it His Sunnah.That’s why I have mentioned some the ahadith from Sahih Bukhari and Sunan Abu Daud for brothet Tariq.On Prophet (pbuh) life time few of his sayings and actions were written and later on most of the ahadith were written and complied. Including the established Sunnah.”
“His Sahaba used to call it His Sunnah?” What about Sayadna Umar’s (RA) saying I mentioned above?? For God sake, be careful of what you write. If they called what Prophet (SAW) said or did a Sunnah, then to declare Prophet-hood is a Sunnah too and as the Sunnah is for us to follow, we should (God forbids) declare “Nabuwwat” too.
If the established Sunan are recorded in the books of Ahadith, will it make Ahadith the Sunnah?? Come on!! What are you talking about??
The fact that the Sunan are mentioned in the Ahadith, we all agree to it and are in no doubt about it. But this doesn’t imply that Ahadith become Sunnah. Sunan are the acts that are not dependent on the Ahadith. They are transferred to us, independent of the Ahadith, through the practice of the Ummah.
THIRTEEN:
You wrote, “Any way the interpretation was againt your concept of Sunnah.He was calling ahadith,Sunnah.”
THANKS TO ALLAH that you finally understood that the words in the brackets were not the part of the original words of the Hadith.
FOURTEEN:
You wrote, “So wisdom (Hikmah) is what Prophet (pbuh) teaches to the companions.”
For sure he did. Again, it is the interpretation of the Quranic verse through which you are trying to prove your point. I already mentioned that all the scholars do not mean “Hadith” by the Quranic word “Hikma” so there is no consensus upon this. Am I clear? Do not impose your understanding of the Qur’an on everybody.
FIFTEEN:
You mentioned this Hadith first with the wrong reference:
“Hadith, “Narrated Sa'id bin 'Ubada Al-Ansari: that he consulted the Prophet about a vow that had been made by his mother who died without fulfilling it. The Prophet gave his verdict that he should fulfill it on her behalf. The verdict became Sunna (i.e. the Prophet's tradition). (Sahih Bukhari Book #78, Hadith #689)”
I have searched whole of “Katab-ul_Aiman-wa-Nazoor” but still couldn’t find the above Hadith there. Please give me the correct reference.
SIXTEEN:
You wrote, “Hakim-ul-Ummat Maula Ahraf Ali Thanvi has discribe the religion as follows.
Deen is mainly consisting of five basic things.
1) Iteyqadaat (Our believes)
2) Ibadaat (Rituals)
3) Maamlaat (Dealing with peoples)
4) Mashrat (Living with people in the society)
5) Ikhlaq (How to behave with people)”
We also know the whole D’in is composed of these things. How many times would I have to tell you that the whole D’in is not contained in the Sunnan but the Qur’an and Sunnan The acts given in the Sunnah Course, by no means, form whole of the D’in because the very Course does not contain the Quranic directives. Is it clear now??
If you have to answer, answer my MAIN POINTS rather than to find bugs in the points that are not part of the main subject matter. Otherwise, I may not reply you as it is useless to play tennis here. You throw ball in my court and I in yours. Back and forth and forth and back and so on…
Say that I lied about Dr. Israr Ahmad.
Say that I lied about Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman.
Say that I lied about Maulana Maududi (RA).
Say that Sayyada Ayesha’s (RA) Hadith is a lie or it means something else.
Say that Sayadna Omar Farooq’s (RA) saying is a falsehood or he meant something else.
Say that the Muslim Sharif’s Hadith that I quoted is unreliable or that it means something else.
Say that the Quranic verse about the “Religion of Abraham (AS)” is not in the Qur’an or means something else.
Disagree in the main subject matter. Is it clear??
Thanks.
Junaid
Edited by: JunaidHasan on Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:02 PM |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, July 17, 2006 - 12:51 PM
Brother Junaid Hasan
Assalam Alikum
You wrote: -Abuse us as “munkareen-e-hadith”
Reply:-I Never said that to your self :-It’s an open lie, Fear Allah.If I am wrong just post my words. Don’t give your own explanation on that, that would be full further lies I guess.
You wrote:-If you have to answer, answer my MAIN POINTS rather than to find bugs in the points that are not part of the main subject matter. Otherwise, I may not reply you, as it is useless to play tennis here. You throw ball in my court and I in yours. Back and forth and forth and back and so on…
Reply: -This is your choice if you don’t wish to reply brother. I have opened this forum to share my views and try to understand views of brother Tariq Hashmi on this course.
You wrote: -Say that I lied about Dr. Israr Ahmad.
You wrote:-Dr. Israr Ahmad, that you mentioned above in your list, stated that a Bukhari Sharif’s Hadith may be questioned. (Aaj TV, Program: Aaj Islam, Islami Rayasat)
What is questioned, we all know that, it cannot be the basic source of the D’in.
I wrote: -Did Dr.Israr said that as well or who else said that beside him. Please before giving your list, make sure only on own part that you didn’t ascribe any thing to some one wrongly. This is only a request.
You wrote:- Say that I lied about Dr. Israr Ahmad
Reply: -This I said for you words only (What is questioned, we all know that, it cannot be the basic source of the D’in.).
My words, did Dr.Israr said that as well, clearly showing that I was inquiring about yours words only not what Dr.Isras Ahmad has said.
2) You wrote: -Say that I lied about Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman.
You wrote:-Here is what Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman believes:
“Mufti-Muneeb-ur-Rehman: …You have said three things that the Book of Allah, Sunnah and Hadith. First, I should make it clear that, in common connotation, Sunnah and Hadith are used as synonyms. They are taken in one meaning but when literal meanings come in, there is a little difference. Hadith, as the persons before me explained, are the sayings (aqwal), actions (af’al), affairs (ahwal) and reproving (taqreeyat) of the Prophet (SAW). Sunnah is also this but Sunnah means “at-tareeqa-tul-masnoqa-tu-fi-deen” that the part of the Prophet’s (SAW) teachings that is for the following of the Ummah. For example, at one time, having more than four wives in nikah is Hadith, it is saying of the Prophet (SAW), it is the affair of the Prophet (SAW) too but it is not the Sunnah that is practicable for the Ummah…”
Reply:-In fact Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehamn has approvrd the defination of Sunnah Exactly as defined by Mufti Taqi Usmani Sahib,
as the persons before me explained, are the sayings (aqwal), actions (af’al), affairs (ahwal) and reproving (taqreeyat) of the Prophet (SAW). Sunnah is also this
Then he added
but Sunnah means “at-tareeqa-tul-masnoqa-tu-fi-deen” that the part of the Prophet’s (SAW) teachings that is for the following of the Ummah.
Quote of Taqi Usmani Sahib from page 1
Likewise the sunnah of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) deals with the economic, social, political and legal problems in such detail that voluminous books have been written to compile them
My Quote from page 3
Only the absolute statements of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) are binding, because they are given in his capacity of a prophet on behalf of Allâh Almighty. As for an action or a word spoken by him as a personal need and guess, and not as an absolute statement, it should be duly honoured, but it should not be taken as part of Sunnah.
This are where you standing, even the simple words of Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman you can not understand. Brother how I see you is not lying here but you still too young to understand the simple sentences of some one.
3) You wrote: -Say that I lied about Maulana Maududi (RA).
Rely: -I have shown you the Maulana Maudoodi sahib own words.From that it very clear that what is Sunnah for him.Now I can understand that the clear and simple words of Maudoodi sahib still not enough for you to make a conclusion on that.
4)You wrote:-Say that Sayyada Ayesha’s (RA) Hadith is a lie or it means something else.
Reply:- what it meaning I already told you.I has said before and I am again telling that not every actions of Prophet(pbuh) are Sunnah.
5) You wrote: -Say that Sayadna Omar Farooq’s (RA) saying is a falsehood or he meant something else.
Reply:-I doesn’t know what kind of questions you are asking from me.
Your Quote:-
Umar bin Khattab (RA) says:
"The Sunnah is that which Allah approved of and Allah's Messenger (SAW) practiced. Do not make your false comprehension a Sunnah for Ummah."
Why not you make a list what Allah has approved In Quran.I am 100% sure once you will come out with this list,it will be closed to my explained Sunnah rather then this course explained Sunnah.
6)You wrote:-Say that the Muslim Sharif’s Hadith that I quoted is unreliable or that it means something else.
Reply:-You even don’t know how to ask aquestion about hadith.I don’t reqarding which hadith you are saying about.
7) You wrote:-Say that the Quranic verse about the “Religion of Abraham (AS)” is not in the Qur’an or means something else.
Reply: -How can you presume things on Quran on behave of me like that? I never gave my comments on this verse.
You wrote:-First, please note that the Prophet (SAW) did not bring Sunnah. Sunan-e-Ibrahimi were already there that the Prophet (SAW) revived in their true sense.
Reply:- Prophet(pbuh) said as mentioned in many ahadith that he brought His Sunnah.You proving again and again that you are blindly following them.
You wrote:-How easily you forget things. Look at this:
“And then we revealed unto you (the command) to follow the religion of Abraham, who was steadfast and was not one of the polytheists.” (16:123)
Reply:-There no connection between your statement and what Quran is saying.Do your own study please,don’t follow any one blindly.
I have requested to you earlier that.
My quote: - My request from you is that, please ponder little bit on my replies before answering them.
You are actually failed to under the truth I have presented in this forum.You might be a brilliant and intelligent student for achieving the worldly knowledge. To achieved the knowledge of deen this is not the main criteria, other wise there must be more Muslims in the develop Nation then the third world Nations.
Your quote:-I want to mention another very important point here that if any of the unreligious act of the Prophet (SAW), for instance, disliking and avoiding the onion is proved unhealthy today, the Prophet (SAW) cannot be accused for this because it was something out of his personal opinion: liking and disliking that he never asked anyone to follow.
Your quote: - I knew that you would attack this very statement of mine.
Reply:-I did not attack to you brother but what you have done in reply, attack on me. You really made me very said.
May Allah give you the true senesce to understand the deen as this was brought by our Prophet (pbuh)
Allah Hafiz |
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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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Posted - Monday, July 17, 2006 - 8:08 PM
Wa’alaikumassalam-wa-Rehmatullah.
It is great to see that you, slowly but surely, have already changed your viewpoint about the Sunnah.
ONE:
You wrote, “I Never said that to your self :-It’s an open lie, Fear Allah.If I am wrong just post my words. Don’t give your own explanation on that, that would be full further lies I guess.”
Ah, how easily you forget things. Here is what you said:
“So its clear to me that you are so called (Munkareen-e-Hadees).Am I right?
Regards,
Sohail Usmani”
TWO:
Here is the complete conversation between us:
“You (Junaid Hassan) wrote:-Dr. Israr Ahmad, that you mentioned above in your list, stated that a Bukhari Sharif’s Hadith may be questioned. (Aaj TV, Program: Aaj Islam, Islami Rayasat)
What is questioned, we all know that, it cannot be the basic source of the D’in.
Reply:-Did Dr.Israr said that as well or who else said that beside him.Please before giving your list,make sure only on own part that you didn’t ascribe any thing to some one wronly.This is only a request.”
I did not ascribe anything wrongly to anyone. Dr. Israr’s saying is clearly presented in one paragraph along with the reference. My point is very clearly written below in another paragraph. If you do not know the basic rules of paragraphing in writing, I cannot do anything about it.
THREE:
You wrote, “In fact Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehamn has approvrd the defination of Sunnah Exactly as defined by Mufti Taqi Usmani Sahib.”
Mufti Muneedb-ur-Rehman clearly drew a line between the Hadith and the Sunnah. If you have understood that border-line, it’s most appreciated!
FOUR:
You wrote, “Only the absolute statements of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) are binding, because they are given in his capacity of a prophet on behalf of Allâh Almighty. As for an action or a word spoken by him as a personal need and guess, and not as an absolute statement, it should be duly honoured, but it should not be taken as part of Sunnah.”
Very nice! But that was not anyone else but you who also wrote this:
“What Prophet(pbuh) used to say or act, He and His Sahaba used to call it His Sunnah.”
You didn’t mention any “absolute statement” here but “what Prophet (SAW) used to say or act.” Are you able to see the contradictions between your own viewpoints??
Anyway, I think, it is established between us that, at least, there is a difference between Ahadith and Sunnah. Isn’t it?
You wrote in one of your earliest postings:
“The Sunnah has been defined by the scholars of the science of Hadîth as follows:
’A word spoken, or an act done, or a confirmation given by the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).’”
There is no specification of “the word spoken” or “an act done” or “a confirmation given” by the Holy Prophet (SAW) as “personal” or “not-personal”. But here I can find a clear difference of “personal” and “absolute statement” in one of the later postings of yours:
“As for an action or a word spoken by him as a personal need and guess, and not as an absolute statement, it should be duly honoured, but it should not be taken as part of Sunnah.”
Also see the following that you wrote:
“what it meaning I already told you.I has said before and I am again telling that not every actions of Prophet(pbuh) are Sunnah.”
This proves your above definition wrong! (A word spoken, or an act done, or a confirmation given by the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)). That is because this definition is referring to each word spoken, each act done or each confirmation as Sunnah. If it doesn’t mean this, still it is an incomplete definition because it doesn’t tell, “which word spoken”, “which act done” or “which kind of confirmation” (personal or absolute as you said) is Sunnah.
This clearly shows that you have certainly changed your opinion about the Sunnah. Haven’t you??
FIVE:
You wrote, “I have shown you the Maulana Maudoodi sahib own words.From that it very clear that what is Sunnah for him.Now I can understand that the clear and simple words of Maudoodi sahib still not enough for you to make a conclusion on that.”
I think, I have also shown you the very own words of Maulana Maududi (RA) from Rasayal-o-Masail, Part 1, P: 307, 308, 3rd edition, ’87.
SIX:
You wrote, “what it meaning I already told you.I has said before and I am again telling that not every actions of Prophet(pbuh) are Sunnah.”
THANKS TO ALLAH, you have finally changed one of your basic opinions about the Sunan.
SEVEN:
You wrote, “I doesn’t know what kind of questions you are asking from me.”
I have asked such questions from you because you love to ignore the main points in my postings and comment on the least important things. And you like to be abusive and judgmental.
EIGHT:
You wrote, “Why not you make a list what Allah has approved In Quran.I am 100% sure once you will come out with this list,it will be closed to my explained Sunnah rather then this course explained Sunnah.”
I think you are confused here. Once again I’d like to say that so many important things of the D’in are not mentioned in the list of the Sunan provided in the very Course that is because it only deals with the Sunan and not the directives of the Qur’an that the Prophet (SAW) carried out. The directives of the Qur’an are surely a major part of the D’in that were carried out by the Prophet (SAW) in the best way. Such acts of the Prophet (SAW) (that are done for fulfilling a Qura’nic order) are called “Uswa-e-Hasana” and their details can be found in the Ahadith.
NINE:
You wrote, “You even don’t know how to ask aquestion about hadith.I don’t reqarding which hadith you are saying about.”
I was talking about the Hadith in which the Prophet (SAW) asked people not to hold him responsible for his personal opinions. I was fed up of listening to your useless blames and judgmental statements that is why I changed my way of putting up a question to you and I am happy to see that the new way has been more helpful in order to make you understand my points.
TEN:
You wrote, “How can you presume things on Quran on behave of me like that? I never gave my comments on this verse.”
This is what I wanted. I wanted you to comment on the “main evidences” I provided in my postings.
ELEVEN:
You wrote, “Prophet(pbuh) said as mentioned in many ahadith that he brought His Sunnah.You proving again and again that you are blindly following them.”
Try to understand what is said in the Ahadith in the light of the Holy Qur’an. Hajj, Zakat, Salah, Fasts and circumcision of the male children etc. were already there (in Sunan-e-Ibrahimi) even before the advent of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) in this world. When he came, he revived these Sunan after making appropriate changes in them.
You further mentioned, “There no connection between your statement and what Quran is saying.Do your own study please,don’t follow any one blindly.”
I’m very sorry if you’re unable to see the great connection. Rather being judgmental again, please enhance your own understanding.
Thank you for your opinions about me.
Sincerely,
Junaid |
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Shaan
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 5:46 AM
The Definition of Sunnah
Sunnah in its linguistic, literal sense means nothing more than a normal customary practice, or something that is habitual. And for this reason, the scholars of language define it as, “a way of
doing something, a path, a methodology, an approach, a custom, or habit, whether it is something bad or good.” This is what sunnah means linguistically, and it is this meaning that was intended by the Prophetic statement,
Whoever initiates in Islam a good sunnah, then he gets the reward of it and the reward of the
one who does it after him until the Day of Resurrection. And it does not detract anything
from his own personal reward. Whoever initiates in Islam a bad sunnah, then that person
carries the burden of it and the burden of those who do it after him until the Day of
Resurrection. And that does not detract from his burden at all.
So this hadith is using it in its linguistic sense, which is sunnah as just a way, path, or an example, nothing more. It doesn’t mean sunnah according to the usage of the fuqaha, or sunnah according to the usage of the usuliyyin, or sunnah according to the usage of the scholars of hadith.Many times Muslims get into discussions and arguments about different actions and someone might say, “Well, you don’t have to do that, it’s only sunnah.” And another person will respond, “Well what do you mean its only Sunnah? There are certain things in the Sunnah that are obligatory too.” But people are arguing while not understanding that one person is using sunnah according to one group of scholars’ definition and another person is using sunnah according to the definition of another group of scholars. So this one, every time they see the word “sunnah,” may think it merely means recommended. So when they discover while learning the rules of salat that certain actions are only sunnah, they may think to themselves, “Oh, I don’t have to do that,” because they only understand sunnah in one way. Or if a ruling is based off of a hadith, a person may say, “Oh, I don’t have to act on that, it is only sunnah.” But in fact, a number of rulings originate solely from the Sunnah. On the other hand, one may think, “Well, the sunnah is what the Prophet did. So, we have to do it,” since they are understanding “sunnah” in relation to it being a source of Islamic Law. So when they find that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) more than likely never prayed without covering his hair, they may deem it obligatory for us to do the same (while it is merely recommended or more appropriate according to most scholars). There is, however, an opinion amongst the Hanafis that holds it to be highly recommended for a person to pray with his head covered, such that it is makruh to not do so. And the person is considered sinful if repeatedly praying without covering his head. But other `ulama have evidence to support their position to the contrary.
At any rate, we must understand that the word sunnah itself has many different connotations. If
you are talking about sunnah according to the scholars of hadith, then sunnah is, “anything reported about the Prophet whether it be a statement, an action, something indicative of approval of another’s action or any description of him, his behavior or physical appearance.” This is because the objective of the scholars of hadith is to determine what reports are sound and which of them are not sound, which of them are acceptable and which of them are not acceptable. So they include in their definition of sunnah the actual physical appearance of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) or even behavioral characteristics and idiosyncrasies that he might have had: like how he moved his hand, how he played with his hair – if he did, how he walked, his actual physical disposition, etcetera. So that is his sunnah according to them, as they are reporting about the Prophet. Their objective is to describe him, whether it be physically, his behavior, how he interacted with people, inscribing what he said, reporting what he did, instances when a Companion had did a
particular action in the company of him and he didn’t say anything about it, or may even have
praised the action itself.
On the other hand, the scholars of usul al-fiqh (legal theory) or the principles of Islamic
Jurisprudence, define sunnah as, “anything which has been transmitted from the Prophet, whether it
be a statement, an action, or an expression of approval of another’s action, that is fit to be used as a source of Islamic law.” So for instance, when they declare that a particular hadith is sahih, they are stating that it is fit to be used as a legal proof. So when they say sunnah, they mean the Sunnah that is a source of law. So from the Companions we learn that it is not permissible for a man to marry a woman and her aunt at the same time, this being established through the Sunnah, that is from the Prophetic legislation. Thus, we have to accept that ruling, even though it is not mentioned in the Qur’an.
There are also the scholars of fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence), who take the rules established by the usuli’in and apply them to make judgments regarding the legality of everyone’s actions, whether they are haram (unlawful), wajib (obligatory), mandub (recommended), makruh (disliked), or mubah (merely permissible). They therefore define sunnah as, “what has been reported about the Prophet
(Allah bless him and give him peace) whether it be a statement, an action, an approval or authorization of something that does not fall into the category of obligation.” This is because the
faqih’s job is to label everything as either obligatory, recommended, disliked, neutral, and so on. So when he says sunnah, he means something that is not obligatory, but nonetheless permissible. So for instance, to pray two raka’s after maghrib is not obligatory. Or to pray two raka’s before fajr is not obligatory. Or to pray the witr prayer, according to the majority of the `ulama, is not obligatory. The Hanafis, however, deem it wajib, but they make a distinct between fard and wajib that the other schools generally do not.
So one of the first things that Muslims have to do in educating themselves is to learn terminology.
Often, people get into arguments about things because of different acceptable understandings of a particular word, when in the end, they are saying the same thing. But they seldom acknowledge that the disagreement began with the difference in how the word is understood by each party. This is extremely important and is important when we talk about the issue of sunnah and bid`a. The issues are: what is considered bid`a, how the ulama define bid`a, the difference of opinion about the definition of what bid`a actually entails, and in the end, is there really a difference of opinion? This is the question that this article will attempt to answer: is there really a difference of opinion between
the majority of the `ulama who say that bid`a divides into the five different categories (ahkham alshar’`), and the minority that holds the view that there is no such thing as good bid’a? Is Abu Ishaq al-Shatibi, the great Maliki scholar of the 8th Islamic century who held the latter view, actually in clear contradiction with the overwhelming majority of the `ulama? Or is he merely defining bid`a in a different way? And when we look at how things are actually applied, we see that there is actually not much difference of opinion, though sometimes there may be inconsistencies between the scholars.
So to summarize, sunnah may have different connotations. Sometimes Sunnah is a reference to not just what the Prophet did and said or authorized. But sometimes Sunnah is even a reference to what the Sahaba did, or what the Sahaba agreed upon. Sometimes sunnah is a reference to the general practice of the people of a particular area of the Muslim world. So when you come across the term in books, these are the things that you need to be aware of. Which definition of sunnah is being utilized? Is it talking about the Sunnah of the Prophet? Or is it talking about the Sunnah of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs? As in the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) mentioned in the famous hadith, “Follow my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs who will be after me.” So Sunnah is sometimes a reference to what they did, “[F]ollow their Sunnah” or what the Righly-Guided Caliphs agreed upon. And sometimes it is a reference to the local agreement of a particular city or village. So one needs to take these things into account.
(The Absolute Truth About Sunnah and Bid`a
© Abdullah bin Hamid Ali http://lamppostproductions.org/SunnaBida.pdf) |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 12:49 PM
Assalam Alikum Brother Junaid Hasan
You wrote:-It is great to see that you, slowly but surely, have already changed your viewpoint about the Sunnah.
Reply:-I never changed my viewpoint on Sunnah, Its was not clear to you.
Item No.1:
I wrote, “I Never said that to your self :-It’s an open lie, Fear Allah.If I am wrong just post my words. Don’t give your own explanation on that, that would be full further lies I guess.”
You wrote: -Ah, how easily you forget things. Here is what you said:
“So its clear to me that you are so called (Munkareen-e-Hadees). Am I right?
Regards,
Sohail Usmani”
Reply: -Good example of Bhotan on me by brother Junaid Hasan.Every one can see from here .This was I have wrote on May 29 while brother Junaid Hasan has joined us in this forum on May 31.
PAKISTAN Posted - Monday, May 29, 2006 - 5:44 AM
Assalam Alikum Brother Tariq Hasmi
Quote:- Without the hadith nothing falls short in my religion.
So its clear to me that you are so called (Munkareen-e-Hadees). Am I right?
Regards,
Sohail Usmani
I never said to you brother why you doing bohtan which can not be hidden?
Item No.2:
I wrote, “In fact Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehamn has approved the definition of Sunnah Exactly as defined by Mufti Taqi Usmani Sahib.”
You wrote: -Mufti Muneedb-ur-Rehman clearly drew a line between the Hadith and the Sunnah. If you have understood that border-line, it’s most appreciated!
Statement of Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman regarding Sunnah.
First, I should make it clear that, in common connotation, Sunnah and Hadith are used as synonyms. They are taken in one meaning but when literal meanings come in, there is a little difference. Hadith, as the persons before me explained, are the sayings (aqwal), actions (af’al), affairs (ahwal) and reproving (taqreeyat) of the Prophet (SAW). Sunnah is also this
Here Mufti sahib clearly approving Sunnah as defined by Taqi Usmani Sahib.
Other part of Statement
Sunnah means “at-tareeqa-tul-masnoqa-tu-fi-deen” that the part of the Prophet’s (SAW) teachings that is for the following of the Ummah. For example, at one time, having more than four wives in nikah is Hadith, it is saying of the Prophet (SAW), it is the affair of the Prophet (SAW) too but it is not the Sunnah that is practicable for the Ummah…”
Here Mufti sahib explaining Sunnah
that the part of the Prophet’s (SAW) teachings that is for the following of the Ummah.
I am sure with no daubt in my mind that Uswa of Prophet and explanation of Quran by our Prophet(pbuh) is for following for Ummah.
This course explain that for Uswa of Prophet (pbuh) and explanation of Holy Quran are not found in Sunnah but in the hadith Literature.
I remind you again that Mufti Muneeb-ur-Reham sahib calling it Sunnah.This part of teaching is surly for the following the ummah.
Brother things are very clear now,what is needed is a brave decision on your part.The soonest you will take the decision will be better for you.
Item No.3:
I wrote, “I have shown you the Maulana Maudoodi sahib own words.From that it very clear that what is Sunnah for him.Now I can understand that the clear and simple words of Maudoodi sahib still not enough for you to make a conclusion on that.”
You wrote:-I think, I have also shown you the very own words of Maulana Maududi (RA) from Rasayal-o-Masail, Part 1, P: 307, 308, 3rd edition, ’87.
Yes you have also shown the words of Maudoodi Sahib.But the point to ponder into it is that what you shown, not at all confirming your views on Sunnah.See what Maulana Maudoodi have stated here.
This view of yours that to keep as much sized beard as the Prophet (SAW) kept is Sunnah or Uswa-e-Rasool means that you consider the habit of the Messenger a Sunnah for whose institution the Prophet (SAW) and the other Messengers (AS) were sent. (Rasayal-o-Masail, Part 1, P: 307, 308, 3rd edition, ’87)
My interpretation:-Here Maudoodi Sahib saying that, to insist on the as much sized beard is wrong (Since Prophet did not gave any camandment on the size of the bear to be followed by ummah).The long bear of Prophet(pbuh) is His personnel liking not the matter of deen (according to Maulana Maudoodi Sahib) so on this ground, he says this would not be considered as Sunnah.
Where this proving your point brother infect its going against this course that Muslims have to keep bear as kept by Prophet(pbuh) and Maudoodi Sahib him self kept it.Bear is not declare as a Sunnah in this course.
Item No.4
I wrote, “Why not you make a list what Allah has approved In Quran.I am 100% sure once you will come out with this list,it will be closed to my explained Sunnah rather then this course explained Sunnah.”
You wrote:-I think you are confused here. Once again I’d like to say that so many important things of the D’in are not mentioned in the list of the Sunan provided in the very Course that is because it only deals with the Sunan and not the directives of the Qur’an that the Prophet (SAW) carried out.
Reply:- Directive of the Quran were practiced by our prophet(pbuh) through His Uswa.That what here explained by Hazrat Omer(RA) as Sunnah.
But This course does not consider Uswa of Prophet as Sunnah while Hazrat omer(RA) does.
No doubt You follow the directive of Quran and for details you also look in the ahadith but you does not consider the explanation of Quran by Prophet(pbuh) as Sunnah.
Be remembered that any verdict to any one or any verbal commandments of Prophet (pbuh) to ummah in general or to a particular event be considered as His practice.
I am not imposing you any thing here as you used to say,I am only explaining things here.You are free to accept it or reject it.
Item No.5
I wrote, “You even don’t know how to ask a question about hadith.I don’t reqarding which hadith you are saying about.”
You wrote-I was talking about the Hadith in which the Prophet (SAW) asked people not to hold him responsible for his personal opinions.
I am quoting some words of Taqi Usmani Sahib in this regards.
The blessed companion Talhâ (pbuh) says:”I passed along with the Holy Prophet (pbuh) across some people who were on the tops of the palm-trees. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) asked, ‘What are they doing?’ Some people said, ‘They are fecundating the tree. They insert the male into the female and the tree stands fecundated.’ The Holy Prophet (pbuh) said, ‘I do not think it will be of any use.’ The people (who were fecundating the trees) were informed about what the Holy Prophet (pbuh) said. So, they stopped this operation. Then the Holy Prophet (pbuh) was informed about their withdrawal. On this, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) said, ‘If it is in fact useful for them, let them do it, because I had only made a guess. So, do not cling to me in my guess. But when I tell you something on behalf of Allâh, take it firm, because I shall never tell a lie on behalf of Allâh.”
According to the blessed companion Anas (pbuh), the Holy Prophet (pbuh) has also said on this occasion:
You know more about your worldly affairs.
The words of this tradition, when looked at in its full context, would clearly reveal that the Holy Prophet (pbuh) in this case did not deliver an absolute prohibition against the fecundation of the palm trees. There was no question of its being lawful or unlawful. What the Holy Prophet (pbuh) did was neither a command, nor a legal or religious prohibition, nor a moral condemnation. It was not even a serious observation. It was only a remark passed by him by the way in the form of an instant and general guess, as he himself clarified later. “I do not think it will be of any use.” Nobody can take this sentence as a legal or religious observation. That is why the Holy Prophet (pbuh)did not address with it the persons involved in the operation, nor did he order to convey his message to them. It was through some other persons that they learned about the remark of the Holy Prophet (pbuh).
Although the remark was not in the form of an imperative, but the blessed companions of the Holy Prophet (pbuh)used to obey and follow him in everything, not only on the basis of his legal or religious authority, but also out of their profound love towards him. They, therefore, gave up the operation altogether. When the Holy Prophet (pbuh)came to know about their having abstained from the operation on the basis of what he remarked, he clarified the position to avoid any misunderstanding.
The substance of his clarification is that only the absolute statements of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) are binding, because they are given in his capacity of a prophet on behalf of Allâh Almighty. As for a word spoken by him as a personal guess, and not as an absolute statement, it should be duly honoured, but it should not be taken as part of Sharî’ah.
As I have mentioned earlier, there is a vast field in the day-to-day worldly affairs which is not occupied by the Sharî’ah, where the people have been allowed to proceed according to their needs and expedience and on the basis of their knowledge and experience. What instruments should be used to fertilise a barren land? How the plants should be nourished? What weapons are more useful for the purpose of defence? What kind of horses are more suitable to ride? What medicine is useful in a certain disease? The questions of this type relate to the field where the Sharî’ah has not supplied any particular answer. All these and similar other matters are left to the human curiosity which can solve these problems through its efforts.
It is this unoccupied field of mubâhat about which the Holy Prophet (pbuh) observed:
You know more about your worldly affairs.
But it does not include those worldly affairs in which the Holy Qur’ân or the sunnah have laid down some specific rules or given a positive command. That is why the Holy Prophet (pbuh), while declaring the matter of the palm-trees to be in the unoccupied field, has simultaneously observed, “But when I tell you something on behalf of Allâh, take it firm.”
Item No.6
I wrote, “Prophet(pbuh) said as mentioned in many ahadith that he brought His Sunnah.You proving again and again that you are blindly following them.”
You wrote:-Try to understand what is said in the Ahadith in the light of the Holy Qur’an. Hajj, Zakat, Salah, Fasts and circumcision of the male children etc. were already there (in Sunan-e-Ibrahimi) even before the advent of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) in this world. When he came, he revived these Sunan after making appropriate changes in them.
Reply:-I thank you for highlighting this to me,I will further study it. But yours word that (First, please note that the Prophet (SAW) did not bring Sunnah) I still have my objection on it.
Brother Through our long discussion things are very clear here regarding the understanding of Sunnah of our Prophet (pbuh). It was impossible for me to do that alone.All the credit goes to you and also brother Shaan, who has provided informations on Sunnah time and again. His provided information has helped me to understand the Sunnah better.
Now what is required here a brave decision from you to admit that the Sunnah has been explained wrongly in this couce. Take your time to make a final decision on that. Don’t react in a hurry.
Here I will also request to brother Tariq Hashmi to give his observation on the new development on his apsence..I understood that you are a busy person but since you are hapend to be the writer of this course, so this must be very important for you as well.
I have no doubt that the purpose all of us here to have the correct understanding of Sunnah.As you have said in yours opening remarks that.
Quote:-I assure you that we will not reject the truth in any form and anywhere. We pray to the Almighty that He helps us reach to the truth and follow it.
Looking forward to hear from you soon
Allah Hafiz |
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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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Posted - Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 6:19 PM
Wa'alaikumassalam Brother Usmani:
ONE:
You wrote, “I never said to you brother why you doing bohtan which can not be hidden?”
Brother Tariq Hashmi and I are from one school of thought in the definition of the Sunnah. If you abuse one, it necessarily means that you are abusing the other.
By the way, I wrote:
“Abuse us as “munkareen-e-hadith”
Please see clearly, I wrote “us” and not “me”.
TWO:
I have already presented a great contradiction between your previous and latter definition of Sunnah.
The opinion Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman and Maulana Maududi (RA) hold, it clearly shows that every act of the Prophet (SAW) is not Sunnah. This is enough to nullify this very definition of yours:
“A word spoken, or an act done, or a confirmation given by the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).”
This definition may be correct in the common connotation of the word “Sunnah” but not the literal.
Next question which arises is what is “for the following of the Ummah and what not”. You have wrongly assumed that this Course says that only the “Sunan” are to be followed not the “Uswa-e-Hasana”. I wonder how you could assume this. We are Muslims too and we can never turn our backs on the “Uswa-e-Hasana” of our Prophet (SAW). Remember, the great moral values of the Prophet (SAW) are, beyond any doubt, exemplary for us. Not including them in the list of the “Sunan” does not mean that they are not to be followed. However, the Qura’an, the Hadith, the Sunnah and the Uswa-e-Hasana, we should know the position of each of them and they should not be confused with each other.
The classical explanation of the “Sunnah” in this course makes the basic sources of Islam extremely reliable beyond any room for doubt. The “Hadith” can never be as reliable as the Sunnah because:
a) The Science of Hadith formally developed long after the death of the Prophet (SAW). However great the efforts of muhaddaseen might be, after all, they could not remove the gap of time between them and the Prophet (SAW).
b) Each Hadith does not contain the exact words of the Prophet (SAW) but the meanings of his words as understood by the narrators.
c) Ummah has been differing to extract the rulings of the Ahadith. Rafa-yadain has already been presented as an example.
Also remember, if ehl-e-tashee* or anyone else differs from us in some opinion, it doesn’t mean that we are always correct and the other party is always wrong – as our elders often understand. No one is more or less Muslim. Allah T’ala is the Rabb of all and the Prophet (SAW) is the Prophet of all. An ehl-e-tashee might have a better understanding of Allah’s D’in than us. The D’in solely belongs to Allah and is nobody’s personal property. Whether it is Imam Abu Hanifa (RA), Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman, Mufti Taqi Usmani, Maulana Maududi or Ustaz Javed Ahmad Ghamidi, they are only the students of Allah’s D’in and, according to their own understanding, they only present their estimations and views of Allah’s Din. None of them is absolute and perfect in his estimations. If we see the bigger picture, the little differences of opinions about “Uswa-e-Hasana” or “Sunnah” etc. do not mean much. We should not get radical about them and need to understand that such differences can never be eradicated from the scholastic grounds. We should develop love, peace and unity among us on the basis of our very common basic beliefs. Nobody becomes a non-Muslim by the difference of the definition of Hadith or Sunnah. I think we need to understand this basic point.
THREE:
Brother Shaan has presented a very nice discussion of different connotations of a word. Though I do not agree with him on all of his points but his basic subject matter is very worthwhile.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Junaid Hassan
* I hate to use such words as ehl-e-tashee, hanafi, dayobandi etc. instead of Muslim. Used one of them above for the sake of making my point clearer. |
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Shaan
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 1:57 PM
the classical view is that sunnah is found in the body of ahadith AND the perpetual PRACTICE of the ummah.
The course on sunnah is different (not wrong actuall) in that it takes sunnah to be ONLY the perpetual practice of ummah.
Since the ahadith contain what the prophet said,did and approved ,therefore, one finds that the classical view holds that the commandments of the prophet(pbuh) found in ahadith are an independent source of shariah whereas this team holds that the prophet's commandments found in ahadith are the application of commandments found in Quran like keeping one's clothes above ankles which was to eradicate pride in Arabs of those times OR explain the human nature.The following principles of determining sunnah explains it better :
The First Principle
Only that thing can be a Sunnah which is religious by nature and status. The Qur’an is absolutely clear that the prophets of Allah were sent to deliver His religion. In their prophetic capacity, the ambit of their thoughts and deeds was only that of religion. Everything besides this, was primarily of no concern to them. No doubt besides their prophetic capacity they were also Ibrahim Ibn Azar, Musa Ibn ‘Imran. ‘Isa Ibn Maryam and Muhammad Ibn ‘Abdullah in their human capacity; however, in this human capacity, they never asked obedience from their followers. All their demands were confined to their prophetic capacity, and what was given to them in this capacity was religion, and thus it was only religion whose propagation they were liable to:
شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّى بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَى وَعِيسَى أَنْ أَقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلَا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ (13:42)
He has enjoined on you the same religion which He enjoined on Noah, and which We have now revealed to you, which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, with the assertion: “Adhere to this religion [in your lives] and do not create any divisions in it.” (42:13)
Consequently, it is known history that the Prophet (sws) used weapons like swords and arrows in wars, traveled on camels, constructed a mosque whose roof was made of palm trees, ate some foods which were customary in the Arab society and showed his like or dislike for them, wore a certain dress which was in vogue in Arabia and whose selection also had much to do with his personal taste – however, none of these things can be termed Sunnah and neither can any man of learning regard them to be Sunnah. At one instance, the Prophet (sws) himself is reported to have said:
إنما أنا بشر إذا أمرتكم بشيء من دينكم فخذوا به وإذا أمرتكم بشيء من رأي فإنما أنا بشر …إنما ظننت ظنا فلا تؤاخذوني بالظن ولكن إذا حدثتكم عن الله شيئا فخذوا به فإني لن اكذب على الله … أنتم أعلم بأمر دنياكم ( مسلم رقم 2263 2361 3262)
I am also a human being. When I direct you about something which relates to your religion, take it from me and when I express my own opinion [about something which is outside this sphere] then my status in this regard is nothing more than that of a human being … I had conjectured about something.1 Do not hold me accountable for such things which are based on opinion and conjecture. However, if I say something on behalf of God, take it because I will never forge a lie on God … You very well know about your worldly affairs. (Muslim, Nos: 2263, 2361, 3262)
The Second Principle
The Sunnah entirely relates to practical affairs of life. Belief, ideology, history, occasions of revelation (sha’n al-nuzul) and other similar things do not fall in its sphere. In the Arabic language, Sunnah means “trodden path”. The way the Almighty dealt with peoples to whom messengers were sent by rewarding or punishing these people is called Sunnatullah by the Qur’an. Consequently, the word Sunnah cannot be applied to things such as faith, and nothing which relates to knowledge can be regarded as Sunnah. Its ambit is practical things and everything that does not fall in this ambit cannot be called Sunnah.
The Third Principle
The third principle is that even things which belong to the practical sphere cannot be regarded Sunnah if they are initiated by the Qur’an. It is known that the Prophet Muhammad (sws) had amputated the hands of thieves, flogged criminals of adultery, stoned to death people for sexual misconduct, fought with people who deliberately denied the truth – however all these acts cannot be termed Sunnah. All these are directives initiated by the Qur’an, and the Prophet (sws) merely followed them. On the other hand, directives such as the prayer, fasting, zakah, hajj and animal sacrifice are also mentioned in the Qur’an which has also made some corrections in them; however, it becomes evident from the Qur’an itself that these directives were initiated by Muhammad (sws) himself once he had revived them as part of the religion of Abraham (sws) and given them religious sanction. Thus they must be regarded as Sunnah which the Qur’an has ratified.
Thus, if something is originally based on the Qur’an and the Prophet (sws) has merely explained it or followed it in exactly the same way he was directed to, then these words or acts of the Prophet (sws) will not be called Sunnah; they will be termed as the Prophet’s explanation and exemplary manner in which he acted upon them. Only those things will be regarded as Sunnah which are originally based on the words, practices or tacit approvals of the Prophet (sws), and they cannot be regarded as following a directive of the Qur’an or an explanation of a directive mentioned in it.
The Fourth Principle
A new Sunnah is not constituted by merely observing some Sunnah in an optional manner. We know that the Prophet (sws) while complying the directive: وَمَن تَطَوَّعَ خَيْرًا فَإِنَّ اللّهَ شَاكِرٌ عَلِيمٌ (He that does a virtue of his own will, (2:158)) of the Almighty offered optional prayers besides the obligatory ones, he fasted optionally besides the obligatory fasts of Ramadan, offered animal sacrifice at instances in which it was not obligatory; however, none of these optional acts of worship constitute a new Sunnah. The way the Prophet (sws) showed diligence in worshipping over and above what was required of him can definitely be termed as a good example that he set for his followers; however, it cannot be regarded as independent Sunan (plural of Sunnah).
Similar is the case of doing some deed of religion is its most ultimate and perfect form. The wudu (ablution) and ghusl (bathing) of the Prophet (sws) are two very good examples that can be presented in this regard. The way the Prophet (sws) went about doing these does not constitute any independent or original deed that they may be regarded as another Sunnah. He has in fact tried to obey an original Sunnah in its most complete and perfect form. Hence they shall be regarded as the exemplary form in which he acted upon a Sunnah, and not regarded as independent Sunnah.
The Fifth Principle
Things which merely state some aspect of human nature cannot be regarded as Sunnah. Beasts having canine teeth, wild birds having claws and tamed donkeys have been prohibited by the Prophet (sws); however, this prohibition is only a delineation of human nature, which is averse to eating such things. Hence this prohibition cannot be termed as Sunnah. The prohibition of certain food items mentioned in the Qur’an (6:146 and 2:173) is a mere delineation of human nature. Man inherently knows that lions, tigers, elephants, eagles, crows, vultures, kites, scorpions and human flesh itself are not meant to be eaten. He is also well aware of the fact that horses and mules are a means of transportation and have no role in satisfying one’s hunger. There are some other similar things also which have been mentioned in various narratives and should be understood thus, and not as independent Sunan.
The Sixth Principle
Those guidelines of the Prophet (sws) cannot be regarded as Sunnah the nature of which is fully sufficient to show that the Prophet (sws) never wanted to constitute them as Sunnah. One example of this are the utterances and supplications which are said in the qa‘dah. It is evident from various narratives that the Prophet (sws) taught the tashahhud and the darud to be recited in the qa‘dah; however, it is also very clear from these narratives that neither did the Prophet (sws) initiate these supplications nor did he deem them as an essential part of the prayer. He in fact wanted to give people the option to either read these supplications which he taught them or read some others to invoke the Almighty. Thus the only thing that is Sunnah in this regard is that one must sit in the qa‘dah position in the second and last rak‘at of a prayer; other than this, no other thing is Sunnah in this sphere.
The Seventh Principle
Just as the Qur’an is not validated through khabr-i wahid, the Sunnah is also not validated through it. The Sunnah is an independent source of religion. The Prophet Muhammad (sws) was liable to communicate it with great care and diligence in its original form and in a manner that would render it certain. It was not left to a person’s choice to communicate it further as is the case of a khabr-i wahid. Consequently, the source of Sunnah is the consensus of the ummah, just as the source of the Qur’an is the consensus of the ummah. Just as the Qur’an has been transmitted to the ummah by the consensus and verbal perpetuation of the Companions (rta) of the Prophet (sws), the Sunnah is transmitted to the ummah by the their consensus and their practical perpetuation. Less than this extent of validation, the Qur’an and Sunnah cannot be accepted; only the Hadith, which depict the exemplary personality of the Prophet (sws) or which contain his explication are transmitted through lesser means of validation.
These are the seven principles of determining the Sunnah. If what has been transmitted to the ummah by the Prophet (sws) other than the Qur’an is deliberated upon in the light of these principles, the Sunnah, like the Qur’an, can be determined with absolute certainty.
(Translated from Ghamidi’s Mizan by Shehzad Saleem)
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