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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Saturday, April 1, 2006 - 6:39 PM 
quote:
everyone
& if they all give you a differnt answer.
incidentally how are you going to decide who is a scholar?
regards |
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ibrahim
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, April 3, 2006 - 8:32 AM
(a)If a hadith contradicts the Quran you know where it belongs.
Re. If ONE is NOT satisfied from a Hadith, He shud NOT act UPON it TILL he become able to understand it in the LIGHT of Quran & Sunnah
(b) Hadith confirms what is stated in the Quran-then that begs the question what is the purpose of that hadith.
Re. No no, it doesn't CONFIRM any thing. Hadith is ONLY the BEST available Record of Prophet's "USWAH" & His "SEERAH" etc. The Total Islam (DeeN) is Present in the Shape of Quran & Sunnah. Hadith do not ADD or LESS any THING in the Religion. That's WHAT in which Majority of Islamic Scholors (likes of Imam Shafi, Imam Abu Hanifah, Shatabi & many many others) Believe. Those who DO NOT hold this opinion (Likes of Imam Ibn e Hazam) ALSO support the ABOVE MENTIONED opinion in SOME OTHER WAY.
(c) Hadith saynig can neither be confirmed or be refuted by the Quran. then how can you trust that hadith, since you know there are hadith which not only contradict the Quran but each other as well.
Re. The Teachings of ISLAM are 100% clear & are Present in the (Undoutable) Form of Quran & Sunnah so Only those AHADITH are Acceptable that are According to IT. |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 1:00 PM
salaam Ibrahim
Thank you for your attempted calrificatio, which I personally found very confusing.
( quote:
a)If a hadith contradicts the Quran you know where it belongs.
Re. If ONE is NOT satisfied from a Hadith, He shud NOT act UPON it TILL he become able to understand it in the LIGHT of Quran & Sunnah
Who is talking about not being satisfied? The comment was perfectly simple one that if a Hadith contradicts the Quran then it is not true. There was no suggestion about acting on anything or not understanding the Quran, please do not make assumptions. and read the comments carefully.
( quote:
b) Hadith confirms what is stated in the Quran-then that begs the question what is the purpose of that hadith.
Re. No no, it doesn't CONFIRM any thing. Hadith is ONLY the BEST available Record of Prophet's "USWAH" & His "SEERAH" etc. The Total Islam (DeeN) is Present in the Shape of Quran & Sunnah. Hadith do not ADD or LESS any THING in the Religion. That's WHAT in which Majority of Islamic Scholors (likes of Imam Shafi, Imam Abu Hanifah, Shatabi & many many others) Believe. Those who DO NOT hold this opinion (Likes of Imam Ibn e Hazam) ALSO support the ABOVE MENTIONED opinion in SOME OTHER WAY
.
Again you seem to have misunderstood the point, which simply was that if a hadith simply restates what is in the Quran, what is the point of reiterating it again.
quote:
(c) Hadith saynig can neither be confirmed or be refuted by the Quran. then how can you trust that hadith, since you know there are hadith which not only contradict the Quran but each other as well.
Re. The Teachings of ISLAM are 100% clear & are Present in the (Undoutable) Form of Quran & Sunnah so Only those AHADITH are Acceptable that are According to IT.
I accept you comments about the Quran but not on the sunna, which I personally place in a similar bracket to hadith.
regards |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 1:35 PM
Dear prev1,
The moderator differentiates between hadith and sunnah as two distinct things. Hadith is prone to error and human manipulation, its method of transmission is different from that of Sunnah or Quran, the former is the hard work of great scholars, the latter is the work of the ummah as a whole.
For e.g., consider this. When you were a child, you had no knowledge of what hadith was. But you still knew what salat was, what fasting was and how to do it. In fact you probably did many things in the Sunnah without ever consulting the hadith. So the Sunnah is something separate from Hadith, you do not need the Hadith to follow the Sunnah (although the Hadith can be helpful in details). |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 6:51 PM
salaam oosman
quote:
Dear prev1,
The moderator differentiates between hadith and sunnah as two distinct things. Hadith is prone to error and human manipulation, its method of transmission is different from that of Sunnah or Quran, the former is the hard work of great scholars, the latter is the work of the ummah as a whole.
For e.g., consider this. When you were a child, you had no knowledge of what hadith was. But you still knew what salat was, what fasting was and how to do it. In fact you probably did many things in the Sunnah without ever consulting the hadith. So the Sunnah is something separate from Hadith, you do not need the Hadith to follow the Sunnah (although the Hadith can be helpful in details).
Thank you for comment, I understand where you and the moderators are coming from. It is simply that I dont think very much of the moderators point of view. Quran is a complete book, and if you believe it is the word of God then you have to accept that as such as that is what the Quran states. Having spent considerable time I have not found any evidence to back up this sunna claim.
Oosman if you look at christianity, judaism etc one of the biggest objections Muslims, all from different sects, is that additions were made to what the prophets said or did and also became obssessed by the rituals. hence the Quran, for the muslims, as the uncorrupted and the complete word of God. What God has considerd important is in the great book, what is not-God obviousouly did not feel it important enough to be included.
So what do the muslims do, same as the ones they accuse, well Gods word is not enough we will add our bit of sunna and hadith and other bits you care as God cannot properly explain his word in his own book.
As for this umma bit, I suggest you travel around the world or even in a given area in a Muslim country and you will so many different rituals amongst the group who claim to be of the same sect Wonder why they all got different traditions passed to them. All these additions to Islam have corrupted this wonderful religion and created countless sects. It is time we went back to the true source of Islam of which there is only on THE QURAN. pologies for any errors or for unintended rudeness as in rush.
regards |
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student1
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, April 8, 2006 - 5:18 PM
Asalam Aalaikum,
Anyone who converts to any other religion from Islam no doubt commits the greatest error of his life and their is difference of opinion about this matter between majority of the Muslim Scholars and the Scholars of Al-Mawrid Institute.
According to the majority of the Scholars, an apostate(the one who leaves Islam) should be given a specific time to re-consider his decision about the conversion and if he apologizes for converting to another religion and returns to Islam,then he should be forgiven and his reembracement of Islam should be accepted otherwise he should be punished to death.
This is a generally held view of the Majority of the Muslim Scholars who base their judgment on a hadith of a Prophet(pbuh) which states something like this "that a person who leaves Islam should be punished to death".
But the view of the Scholars of Al-Mawrid Institute is much different showing further flexibility on this issue and they base their view on Qur'an and the Sunnah of Prophet(pbuh).
Now the question arises that if Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance then how come anyone converting to Islam is greatly welcomed but if any muslim who converts to another religion is not tolerated and is killed?
Now dear brothers if a non-muslim asks this question to the muslims, then what will be the reply of the muslims who support the majority of the Muslim Scholars?
A person is allowed to enter Islam but is not allowed to leave Islam just as similarly when a person enters a criminal world to become a criminal but is not allowed to leave the criminal world otherwise he will be killed.
For clear information on this matter, visit the following link:
http://www.understanding-islam.org/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=286
Regards,
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mmrits
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, April 8, 2006 - 7:18 PM
A/a
As the crime was admitted in Afghanistan.And Afghanistan is an occupied country.So politically any leniency would be seen as sign of weakness.It would be seen as surrender before the imperialist.
Clearly criminal has acted so because of greed. Otherwise it is highly irrational for human to believe that God has Son. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Saturday, April 8, 2006 - 10:26 PM
quote:
A person is allowed to enter Islam but is not allowed to leave Islam just as similarly when a person enters a criminal world to become a criminal but is not allowed to leave the criminal world otherwise he will be killed.
Are you saying that entering Islam is like entering the criminal world?!!!
Brother, it is thinking like yours that people start making fun of Islam - a religion of peace. When Allah clearly says there is no compulsion in religion, then how can you say a person is not allowed to leave Islam? Are you trying to contradict the word of Allah? Astaghfirullah! Have some fear of God!
Also know that the prophet never killed anyone for leaving faith, so why do you believe in this bidda? |
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mmrits
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, April 9, 2006 - 6:24 PM
I'm sorry u totally miss the point. (may be deliberately)
It's from my(Muslim) perspective.
Crime - is to reject the faith.
Criminal- man in question.
Site of crime : Land Occupied by Crusaders.
Only the strong has right to forgive.
So this case is totally different.Your point might be valid if Afghanistan were independent nation.
This is like changing side in war.
Obviously misoislamist will like to lure the occupied to commit the crime of apostasy.
And why I used the word "crime" not the sin because apostasy is crime in that land. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Monday, April 10, 2006 - 12:27 PM
Please read the moderators comments (else where). He said that apostasy is a sin, not a crime.
Note the difference between the two. Allah punishes for sin, human law punishes for crime. |
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mmrits
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, April 10, 2006 - 6:27 PM
quote:
Please read the moderators comments (else where). He said that apostasy is a sin, not a crime.
Note the difference between the two. Allah punishes for sin, human law punishes for crime.
Apostasy is crime in Afghanistan.Isn't it?
Are they able to implement it?
No, because slaves don't have choices. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Monday, April 10, 2006 - 8:13 PM
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mmrits
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 7:00 PM
| Yes! slaves of Occupier Anti-Muslim forces. |
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