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Loveall

PAKISTAN
Topic initiated on Friday, July 22, 2005  -  3:39 PM Reply with quote
A Logical Argument of the Hereafter


In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

Unfortunately some of us i.e. believers still want some logical arguments of the hereafter in spite of very implicitly mentioned in Holy Quran at various sites e.g. “And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter (2: 4)” So being the believers we are bound to believe blindly whether we understand the logic or not otherwise our faith is incomplete.

Other than to believe blindly, no doubt our brain and all the logics seem to be jammed and paralysed to know the FACT OF HEREAFTER but I try to make understand this GREAT FACT logically (to some extent) as the following. I hope there must have no difficulty to understand otherwise God says “O who you believe” before most of His commandments.

GOD SAYS:

· People! IF YOU ARE IN DOUBT ABOUT THE RAISING, then surely We created you from DUST, then from a SMALL SEED, then from A CLOT, then from A LUMP OF FLESH, complete in make and incomplete, that We may make clear to you; and We cause what We please to STAY IN THE WOMBS till an APPOINTED TIME, then We BRING YOU FORTH AS BABIES, then that you may attain your maturity; and of you is he who is caused to die, and of you is he who is brought back to the worst part of life, so that after having knowledge he does not know anything (22: 5)

· And Allah created you of dust, then of the life-germ, then He MADE YOU PAIRS (35: 11)

There are many other verses like are (32: 9), (75: 37 to 40), (86. 5,6)… etc having the similar meanings about creation of man.

No one of us is aware of when one was the dust (clay). No one of us is aware of when one’s moiety was wandering in the somniferous tubules of one’s father and the other one (moiety) in the follicle of the ovary of one’s mother. No one of us is aware of when these two moieties united in the genital tract of the mother. No one of us is aware of when a clot was formed. No one of us is aware of when a lump of the flesh was formed. No one of us is aware of when one stayed in the womb for an appointed time. No one of us is aware of when one was born. No one of us is aware of when one was crying to expand the lungs. No one of us is aware of when one has been feeding by one’s mother. No one of us is aware of about one’s neonatal, infantile and early childhood periods.

We all have passed through all the above mentioned events of our creation by God. But we are absolutely UNAWARE of all the events, which are ABSOLUTE FACTS, and NOBODY, of any religion, can dare to deny.

Have we learned some lesson? I mean to say; if we are unaware of all the retrospective EVENTS OF OUR CREATION BY GOD, which are the ABSOLUTE FACTS, why not understand SIMILARLY the perspective EVENTS OF THE HEREAFTER SAID BY GOD, which are ABSOLUTE FACTS?

The above is to make understand about the fact of the hereafter about which some people say there is nothing (Nauzbillah) otherwise our soul will be FULLY AWARE of all the events of that day.

I think the universe is running 100% on the basis of the logic even at the microscopic or atomic level and beyond. A stage comes when it is said, “The mechanism is not known” This doesn’t mean that there is no mechanism or logic further but it is beyond our access. So nothing seems to be illogical but our brains are made in such a way that we are disabled to know after certain limit.

In the end it is summarised; if a complete understandable logic or mechanism is present before our birth, “Why not after death?” Our example is just like a fish of the well, which is unable to understand the environment of the sea.
gohar

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, July 23, 2005  -  10:15 PM Reply with quote
1. While we were in previous stages of creation we were no humans and not gifted with consciousness so we dont have conscious memories to retrive, though while in life after death we would be able to recall this life.
So ur logic does not seem to fit in here,
when we think of past its recalling memory while when we visualise future its our vision, faith, experience, senses, hope.

The message in here is that our life has a past and a future.


2. Secondly its the perception which counts in here and that is we have to give an account to our Lord for all our actions.


3. Another perception is that Life is an ongoing it may never cease.
which appeals to a man's nature, that is he thinks, which goes beyond his visual experiences and he expects himself there.

Edited by: gohar on Saturday, July 23, 2005 10:22 PM
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, July 31, 2005  -  6:07 AM Reply with quote
QUOTE: While we were in previous stages of creation we were no humans.
Perhaps you have not read my post in detail as it is only for the unbelievers not for the believers who are sure about the hereafter and do not need any argument at all.

Furthermore I wrote “logically (TO SOME EXTENT)” Then I said, “The above is to make understand about the fact of the hereafter about which some people say there is nothing (Nauzbillah) otherwise our soul will be FULLY AWARE of all the events of that day”

In addition, I have not really said we were humans, if you are denying, but the components which were surely present, to give the example to those who unfortunately refute the hereafter OTHERWISE see the Quranic verse 2: 28 which seems to be nullifying your statement (ur logic doesn’t seem fit here).

“How do you deny Allah and you were dead and He gave you life? Again He will cause you to die and again bring you to life, then you shall be brought back to Him (2: 28)”

If you consider the intrauterine stages dead, it is NEVER so but alive. Mind it, life does not start when the baby starts his/her first breath after the delivery but sperm is also alive the egg is also alive. What was the stage before this life (sperm and egg)???? God is saying about this stage before our live stage, “How do you deny Allah and “YOU” were dead and He gave you life (2: 28). What is this “YOU” who is being givens life???? I mean this “YOU” is for Humans (us) are some else creatures you are pointing out.

QUOTE: so we dont have conscious memories to retrive.

You have told yourself what I wanted to say.

QUOTE: Another perception is that Life is an ongoing it may never cease.
Why are you using the words, “it MAY never cease”. Are you too not sure?

NOTE: My original post was for the UNBELIEVERS ONLY not for the believers who are sure and do not need any argument at all.

**************************

I am wondered to know that some people say that humans were not humans during their stages of creation, which are mostly in the uterus. So they consider no difference of creation of humans and other creatures while there are huge differences even in the IMMATURE sperms and the eggs.
gohar

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, August 01, 2005  -  4:47 AM Reply with quote
Loveall,
I am not considering the start of life from sperms or whatever u call.
I consider our life even in plants, animals, air and everything that made the strength and material to make the sperms or worms.
Its the blessings of consciousness that we have got now.
And yes I am too sure that "life will not cease" coz I do not want it to cease and I will pray to Allah to keep me a part of his creation with his gifted consciousness even in better dimensions to feel and experience the glory of his creation.
I love his creation and life and I want to be apart of it.
I will live with a hope and see where i end up in. I will strive and hope for better. And I hope the best from HIM.
gohar

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, August 06, 2005  -  2:53 PM Reply with quote
quote:


Particularly when the texts are a compilation of `revelations' attributed to many seers or prophets. We are living in a pluralistic environment and our effort must to understand the sublime teachings of all religious texts. Those who sincerely wish to investigate the Truth should do it without any bias and prejudice. Emotion should not take an upper hand at the expense of common sense!

I don't mind quoting verses from any scripture as long as they meet these two criteria: (i) If its message is sensible and is of great value to the present and (ii) if it does not contradict another verse of the same Book.


dear,
1. Does it mean that Quran or any other religious books are not Allah's/God's words.
or
2. If these are God's words then the prophets modified them so either they thought themselves more wiser than God or they were not loyal to God.

3.If the prophets were not loyal to God then how come we believe them.
or
4.There is no God at all.
and
5.If there is no God then what is the point of reading these scriptures at all.

or

6. Do u mean that we need to take all religious books into consideration, tele them, take out the contradictions and compile New rules according to the New world.

but
again confusing then, why to take them into consideration at all if we do not believe them.

Though I accept of wider knowledge, its not out of question, but.... did not get ur exact point.

or

did i not understand u quite correctly and u mean something else.
Bhavittre

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, August 09, 2005  -  3:22 PM Reply with quote
you said………Though I accept of wider knowledge, its not out of question, but.... did not get ur exact point. or did i not understand u quite correctly and u mean something else.

yes, this is the only point i have in my mind otherwise may be i could not let others understand or may be that they could not understand me properly. or if no contradiction in quran let me understad about the individual contradiction so that i must become the true muslim not false or blind. if someone asks me the similar questions, i must be in a position to satisfy them by answering with confidence…..

actually who delete my posts are unanswerable
Bhavittre

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, August 09, 2005  -  3:22 PM Reply with quote
you said………Though I accept of wider knowledge, its not out of question, but.... did not get ur exact point. or did i not understand u quite correctly and u mean something else.

yes, this is the only point i have in my mind otherwise may be i could not let others understand or may be that they could not understand me properly. or if no contradiction in quran let me understad about the individual contradiction so that i must become the true muslim not false or blind. if someone asks me the similar questions, i must be in a position to satisfy them by answering with confidence…..

actually who delete my posts are unanswerable

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