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student1

PAKISTAN
Topic initiated on Tuesday, March 01, 2005  -  7:02 PM Reply with quote
Qur'an and Modern Science


Asalam Aalaikum

"Qur'an and Modern Science" is one of the hot topics of our days. Some Muslim Scholars and students of Islamic Studies believe that Qur'an is compatible with the Modern Scientific Research and their is no conflict between them. They further claim that scientific facts which were recently discovered by Modern Science are mentioned in the Glories Qur'an ,the Holy Book which was revealed 1400 years ago.

Lets discuss about this topic in detail. I would appreciate if all my brothers and sisters participate in this discussion.

Regards,
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, March 01, 2005  -  9:56 PM Reply with quote
ps just added to Science Links today on our site

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html

e.g.

"...in summary, the Qur'an describes not only the development of external form, but emphasises also the internal stages, the stages inside the embryo, of its creation and development, emphasising major events recognised by contemporary science."
"As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can specifically see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. I can understand the words that are translated to me from the Qur'an. As I gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I do today and describing things, I could not describe the things that were described...

I see no evidence to refute the concept that this individual Muhammad had to be developing this information from some place... so I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he was able to write..." [1]


Author of over 200 publications. Former President of the Teratology Society among other accomplishments. Professor Johnson
askhalifa

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Wednesday, March 02, 2005  -  6:15 PM Reply with quote
As we believe Quran is form the creater of every created thing and science is nothing but study of creatures. So Quran must be compatible with science, if there is a conflict between science and Quran there can be 2 possibilities
1. What is understood from Quran is wrong
2. Since science is progressive ( a perfect thing can never be progressive) so it is imperfect and is concluding wrong thing
and third thing is not possible that is Quran is wrong....
What I mean to say is if there are any scientific fact mentioned in Quran that must be right and as science is progressing more and more, that is the exact reason people find it more compatible with Quran.

But, scientific facts mentioned in Quran is not meant for science, one hardly have heard about a person who have invented anything based Quran. Actuall purpose of Quran is hadayah and tazkeer. The fact that there are some scientific facts memtioned is Quran does not make it book of science. In fact these points also are mentioned as tazkeer.
Just for an example if a person is giving a lecture on Human physiology and while giving a long lecture he sometime refers to human psychology and if a psychologist is listening to it and he realise that the peaker have not made a single mistake and have high level of psychological knowledge, he may conclude that the person is also a great psychologist. But, this does not actually change the nature of speech, topic of speech will remain physiology and not psychology.
Some of our muslim bothers, too much excited about Quran and science try to emphasis on Quran as book of science and Prophet Moahammed PBUH as scientist...
this I consider is nothing but blasphemy.
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, March 02, 2005  -  7:42 PM Reply with quote
Asalam Aalaikum

Dear Brother, you have stated that:

"If their was a conflict between Science and Qur'an then Qur'an would be understood wrongly."

So you mean to say that Qur'an is dependant on Science and cannot guide without Science, If this is true, then how would you justify the claim that "Qur'an is a source of guidance for the entire mankind"?

If Qur'an cannot be understood correctly without Modern Science ,then how did the people after the death of Prophet(pbuh)in 8th and 9th Century understood Qur'an when Modern Science and Technology was not present?

I hope my comments are clear.

Allah Hafiz
askhalifa

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Thursday, March 03, 2005  -  4:44 AM Reply with quote
Student1 said
"Dear Brother, you have stated that:

"If their was a conflict between Science and Qur'an then Qur'an would be understood wrongly."

So you mean to say that Qur'an is dependant on Science and cannot guide without Science, If this is true, then how would you justify the claim that "Qur'an is a source of guidance for the entire mankind"?

"
Walaiakumsalam,
Where did I say "Qur'an is dependant on Science and cannot guide without Science". We are talking about science in Quran, what I mean to say is, there can never be conflict between science and Quran. Still I said that main purspose of Quran is hadayah and tazkeer. Science of Quran can atmost be used two prove that this is book of All knowing. If we find some conflict than I spoke about two possibilites and you unfortunately have ignored second one.
Let me give one example from a ayah of Surah Rahman

O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!

earlier few ulema concluded that men and jinn can never escape from the gravity of earth, which came as false explanation when US shuttle landed on moon. Still some ulema denied landing on moon itself. Now, you tell me which stand is better. To believe their explanantion is wrong (which is more likely from context also) or to deny such event itself..
Regards
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, March 03, 2005  -  5:18 PM Reply with quote
Asalam

Aalaikum

Iam sorry brother I misunderstood you,
I have understood what you meant
but I donot agree with you completely.

You mean to say that If their is a conflict between Qur'an and Modern Science ,then their are following possibilities:

1)Either the Qur'an is being misunderstood.

2)Or either their is a fault in the Scientific Research.

1)Now eleborating on the 1st possibility,according to your opinion, the accurate results coming from Modern Scientific Research could never be in conflict with Qur'an, If their seems to be a conflict between Qur'an and the Modern Science then the verses of the Qur'an are being misunderstood.
We know that during the lifetime of Prophet(pbuh) and even few centuries after his demise,Science and Technology was not advance as it is today, their were no High Tech Scientific Equipments available during his lifetime and everything was based on personal theories and observations.Keeping this fact under consideration, how did the people during the lifetime of Prophet(pbuh)
or during the 9th and 10th Century
understood these verses of the Qur'an?

Now coming to the 2nd possibility, yes, their could be errors and faults in Science because Science is not perfect and infallible,it has its own limitations and I agree that Science can be wrong but Qur'an can never be wrong.

I donot agree with the claim that Science cannot be in conflict with Qur'an because Science as I have already mentioned is not perfect and is subject to changes and If any thing from Science is proved wrong with strong and explicit Scientific evidences then it can be in conflict with Qur'an.

I hope you get my point.

Regards
askhalifa

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Thursday, March 03, 2005  -  5:36 PM Reply with quote
I am sorry brother I actually could not understand what is difference between our opinion. May be I could not convery properly. I have given example for first point... and you have agreed with the second point
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, March 05, 2005  -  8:15 PM Reply with quote
Assalamo’alaikum,

I can say only about the science related to the human body. The compatibility does not mean to follow the religion after being proved scientifically first but knowing that the religion is a universal truth even if someone wants to prove it upto infinity. But there are many things in our daily life where is no need of high technology to prove it. For example every one can easily understand the physical, social and psychological logics of remembering God, offering prayers five times a day in a group (Jamat), fasting, Zakat, Hajj, Wudhu, brushing the teeth, bathing, cleanliness, applying fragrance, stopping eating earlier, control of anger, early sleeping and early getting up, abstinence of sexual intercourse in menses, presence of Mahram for a women, wearing Hijab, 1:2 man to women ratio regarding the testimony, helping others etc and many others, in addition to pleasure of God.

We must know, as pointed out by sister Dr. Henna khan, human Embryology after all the researches, in the medical books is described same as mentioned in Holy Quran and similarly many others in medicine as said 1425 years ago. Even the birth of Jesus (Aleh salam) by mother (Maryam- Aleh salam) only has been explained scientifically and named a term- Parthenogenesis.

Sociology is also a branch of science and it must be known that it is included in community medicine taught to the medical students. An expert may answer about the social aspects of, mosque gatherings, cutting hand of the thief, whipping the accused of rape, logic of Jihad and others.

It is very easy for a neutral person to understand otherwise preoccupation of the mind creates the misunderstanding.
AmrBassiouny

HONG KONG
Posted - Thursday, March 10, 2005  -  4:32 AM Reply with quote
The Quran has some simple scientific facts...nothing that i found groundbreaking at all. In fact, most of them are just exaggerated by scholars to make the Quran look like it has scientific miracles.

Only one of these scientific facts that i found strong and that nobody knew about at the time, would be the one which refers to the big bang. Aside from that, the rest seem to be exaggerated or interpreted in a twisted way to make it look like the Quran talked about something nobody else knew about at the time.

One example of such unfounded exaggeration would be the part in the Quran which says that Earth is shaped like an ostrich's egg. Scholars go on and on on how nobody at the time knew this, and how people thought that the earth was flat and that there are two mountains on each side supporting the sky. But then they ignore the fact that this was well-known even in BC, and it was never widely thought that the earth is flat at all (this was only spread by the Roman church).

Edited by: amrbassiouny on Thursday, March 10, 2005 4:38 AM
askhalifa

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Thursday, March 10, 2005  -  5:53 AM Reply with quote
quote:



One example of such unfounded exaggeration would be the part in the Quran which says that Earth is shaped like an ostrich's egg. Scholars go on and on on how nobody at the time knew this, and how people thought that the earth was flat and that there are two mountains on each side supporting the sky. But then they ignore the fact that this was well-known even in BC, and it was never widely thought that the earth is flat at all (this was only spread by the Roman church).

Edited by: amrbassiouny on Thursday, March 10, 2005 4:38 AM

Brother AmrBassiouny
You have ignored one point here, egg of ostrich is not spherical but elliptical as earth is, was it know at that time that earth was elliptical??
AmrBassiouny

HONG KONG
Posted - Friday, March 11, 2005  -  10:09 AM Reply with quote
quote:


Brother AmrBassiouny
You have ignored one point here, egg of ostrich is not spherical but elliptical as earth is, was it know at that time that earth was elliptical??


Well, Eratosthenes' (the librarian of Alexandria around 100BC) had accurately measured the circumfrence of Earth as close as 1-0.5% of the real figure, as well as the longitude of Earth. If it was as accurate as it was, then he should have easily reached that conclusion.

I can quote a part of a document i have by the Islamic Research Center, and you can see how misleading it is. It is outright lying in order to convince people that the Quran is divine:

"In early times, people believed that the earth is flat. For centuries, men were
afraid to venture out too far, lest they should fall off the edge. Sir Francis
Drake was the first person who proved that the earth is spherical when he
sailed around it in 1597."

This is, in plain words, a lie, and it sickens me to see Muslims going so far as lying about history in order to bring unknowledgable people into the religion.

There are a few other things which people like Harun Yahya will go on and on about on how the Quran describes them and then goes on to talk about the ignorance of the people at the time and how they knew nothing about it. While in reality people knew about it more than 500 years before the Quran ever came.

Anothe example would be how the Quran very vaguely hints that the moon reflects light off the sun (it doesn't even SAY it, it just hints)...and i've read so many scholars blab for pages about it, and how miraculous it was for a man living in a cave in the deserts of Saudi Arabia to have known this in the year 600. While the fact is that this was known by Pythagoras in 500BC. The scholars also never mention that the Porphet was at one point a trader and that he had frequently travelled to Syria and other places where there was a mixture of people coming from different parts of Europe, Asia and Africa, where knowledge of these things would be far from alien to him.

Edited by: amrbassiouny on Friday, March 11, 2005 10:20 AM
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, March 14, 2005  -  11:52 PM Reply with quote
Science, so far has been discovered, is not perfect. I believe every thing right said by God. It is a separate issue to think about the science, which sometime becomes helpless to say, “The further mechanism is unknown” and if known would never be found deviating the religion otherwise we are frank suspicious about truthfulness of the religion. This is the common sense understanding only.

A layman may project all the conjectures. I mean if a dried skull is shown to anyone he/she will surely insist and say, “The oesophagus passes through the foramen magnum”.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, March 15, 2005  -  4:55 PM Reply with quote
thnx all for such interesting n informative comments.

recently the issue of MRSA, a bug causing critical illness has caused lots of trouble in uk hospitals. many brains are joining together to find solutions.

our hosp. in the berks area has put up antibacterial solution cans on entrance to wards with instructions for visitors, patients and staff members;to sterilize hands each time they enter. also pics./posters in bathrooms reminding "Have you washed hands?"
and all this takes your mind back to the basic teachings of our religion given to us centuries before

wassalaam
AmrBassiouny

HONG KONG
Posted - Wednesday, March 16, 2005  -  7:58 PM Reply with quote
quote:

our hosp. in the berks area has put up antibacterial solution cans on entrance to wards with instructions for visitors, patients and staff members;to sterilize hands each time they enter. also pics./posters in bathrooms reminding "Have you washed hands?"
and all this takes your mind back to the basic teachings of our religion given to us centuries before


You make it sound that before Islam, people thought that the Earth was flat and that the moon was made of cheese.

I beleive that the Romans had figured this one out before us...

"Access for the Poor
"Florence Dupont (Daily Life in Ancient Rome) writes that it was for reasons of ritual that the Romans washed frequently. And she adds that ". . . even in very ancient times and even in the depth of the country, Romans, including women and slaves, would wash every day and would have a thorough bath on every feast day if not more often. At Rome itself, baths were taken daily."
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, March 17, 2005  -  5:50 AM Reply with quote
thnx amr
note that appreciating islam does not mean denying good in any other religion/culture. see below:

The disciples worriedly went to Jesus/Essa PBUH once informing

"There is a man out there in Jeruselum calling people to the Good/Right. but who else than yourself could call to the Good oh our beloved. Hence we do not listen to him""

"Take Good wherever you find it my dear ones; 'cause all Good comes from God" replied the beloved PBUH
Good News Bible

God bless all who follow the Right; as n wen )
AmrBassiouny

HONG KONG
Posted - Thursday, March 17, 2005  -  7:35 AM Reply with quote
quote:

thnx amr
note that appreciating islam does not mean denying good in any other religion/culture. see below:


Of course. I have much respect for other cultures. Though most clerics and scholars have convinced the Muslim population that they were the best and will alwyas be the best and that everybody before Islam was dirty, stupid and ignorant. This creates a lot of undue pride for us Muslims which we don't even deserve half of. So i'm just trying to fix common misunderstandings.

Thanks for being understanding though, i hope to not be offensive if i go along with some of my sarcastic statements (which i usually write with a smile).

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