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Junaidj

CANADA
Topic initiated on Sunday, January 30, 2005  -  7:57 PM Reply with quote
A question for the Mullahs?


can the mullahs defend themselves on the following charges?

http://www.dawn.com/2005/01/30/letted.htm#2

>>The religious parties, as always, have remained silent over the rape. They show their connivance over atrocities committed over women. They want Muslim women to wear a veil but never condemn acts in which women have been stripped naked. They have made the Hudood laws a political issue,

ANIL KHAN LUNI
Karachi


>>I cannot understand why religious parties come out in droves whenever women demand their due rights but are nowhere to be seen whenever incidents of abuse of women are reported in the national press.

>>Recently, a woman physician was assaulted in Balochistan and a maid servant was raped, doused in kerosene and torched in Karachi. Why did these same protesters not come out in large numbers, demanding appropriate justice and asking the government to take steps to protect the honour and lives of our daughters, sisters, wives and mothers? If this is not a selective and selfish interpretation of Islam, then one doesn't know what else is.

NADEEM ZAFAR
Memphis, USA
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Sunday, January 30, 2005  -  9:26 PM Reply with quote
A true Muslim would be outraged at these atrocities & I emphasise the word TRUE MUSLIM.
oosman

USA
Posted - Monday, January 31, 2005  -  2:36 AM Reply with quote
A friend of mine was telling me, from a research paper he wrote, that during the end of Moghul rule in India, the British rulers wanted to end the power of instituitionalized religion. They had noticed that the Muslim rulers (Aurangzeb and some others) were very religious and also knoweledgeable. Even in local towns and villages, the clerics were knoweledgeable and powerful/wealthy people with influence. The British started to replace the local imams with new ones who were not as influential or literate. This was a gradual process that over the decades was successful. The result was two fold. The community leaders were people who were poor, illiterate and with no influence. The community refused to follow them and elected other secular leaders who were more respected and wealthy even though lacked knoweledge of Islam. The other effect was the knoweledge of religion was taken away and we are left with ignorant mullahs.
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Monday, January 31, 2005  -  8:20 AM Reply with quote
Despite your valid comments, I'll add that we have been independent for over 50 years now?

Edited by: junaidj on Monday, January 31, 2005 8:43 AM
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, January 31, 2005  -  10:52 AM Reply with quote
Asalam Aalaikum

We are independent for 50 years only indirectly , what I mean to say is that inspite of being independent,we are still being indirectly ruled by the West.Dont think that we are completely independent, we are free in the sense that their is no other third party directly ruling over us and giving us orders, we can move around freely without any problem and do what ever we like but in terms of policies we are not independent.

I hope it helps,

Regards,
oosman

USA
Posted - Monday, January 31, 2005  -  6:08 PM Reply with quote
Actually, in Pakistan at least, I do not think majority of the people really care what the mullah has to say. They won the election in NWFP and that might be an exception. In general Pakistani people always opt for secular leaders, like Benazir or Nawaz Sharif, etc. I think this is so because people know mullah has brought no good to the community in general, only thing they do like you said is repressing rights of women, and imposing wrong interpretations of sex and other laws. That is because they are not with the modern times and ignorant. You cannot just be an aalim/scholar with only religious education, you need to be aware of your surroundings and modern sciences. One of the things I have noticed about the mullahs is the stubborn belief that Allah only wants us to progess in Islamic knowledge, rest of the knowledge is useless for the after life they say so there is no point in pursuing it. Some will even say why we go to western style schools and get education of non-religious things, we should be better off studying religion.

I say we should do both.
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, January 31, 2005  -  9:25 PM Reply with quote
Asalam Aalaikum

Brother I agree with you on this point but you should not be harsh against them. Try to express your disagreement clearly in the best way that is possible and please donot let them down after all they are Allah(swt)'s creation and deserve love.

Actually it is lack of understanding of the surrounding and of the Modern Knowledge which left them behind and caused the people to ignore them.

I remember I met some of them just after WTC attack in a mosque and their
Ignorant Leader was saying:"what is the use of technology"?He continued:
"Parents send their children for computer education and for learning English but what is the use of it".

The reason why he was saying this is because the security system of the twin towers in New York was strongly based on Computer Technology but during the blast, the high-tech security system of those buildings could not protect that building neither the people of that building.

I think this is the most cheapest way to divert the attention of the young generation from the Modern Science and Technology, I was with their gang and asked them a question:
"Do you eat meat"?
He said in reply:
"What do you mean offcourse we eat meat"

Then I again asked him that:
"Where do you put your meat before eating"?
He said:"in refregerator".


I asked him that:
"If you donot keep your meat in refrigerator and keep it outside in your home what will happen"?
He said:"The meat will spoil"?

I said in reply that:
"Refrigerator is also a part of Technology and now you tell me from which side do you find this Technology useless"?
He remained silent and stared at me.

I told him that If you think that Technology is useless, then please throw away the refrigerator from your home ,why are you keeping it in your home?
again he remained silent....

I told him that their is nothing in this world which can protect human beings from death, does it mean that you will not use those things?
Take the example of lock, you know these days the thieves have become more clever then before and have new technic to get into the house of people,does it mean that still you will not use door locks and leave your house at the mercy of theives?

You have to take precautions whether it is technology based precautions or manually based precautions.

We eat food to keep ourselves alive and we know that If we donot eat for more then two or more days, then we can die ,but when our time will come ,neither the food that we eat will protect us nor anything, does it mean that we should leave eating food?

Actually it is the fault of the environment in which they are brought up, If I take an educated person and put him in an uneducated environment and let him live their for 3 or 4 years then what do you expect from him that after 3 or 4 years ,will he walk ,talk and act like educated people?

In the same way if I take an uneducated and ignorant person and put him in an educated environment for 3 years, then what do you expect from him after 3 years ,will he act ,talk and walk like ignorants and uneducated people?

So brother environment plays a major role in the developement and construction of the mind of a person.

A human being doesnot learn much from books as much as he or she learns from nature and environment.

And let me tell you brother that dont think that Mullas have good knowledge about Islam, I have seen how ignorant they are about Islam, If they had true and accurate knowledge of Islam,then they would have been convincing and encouraging Muslims to learn computer,science and business as well apart from Islamic education.

One Mullah came to me and told me that "Islam can only be penetrated into the heats of people through sword"

I asked him in reply that did our beloved Prophet(pbuh) preach Islam through sword? Did our four rightly guided Caliphes ever embraced Islam through sword?

I wonder what kind of Islamic education they take, this typical illiterate approach which doesnot deserve any place in the educated society and their are many sensible people who donot agree with this silly point of views.



May Allah(swt) guide us in the straight path and help us understand the true teachings of Islam.
oosman

USA
Posted - Monday, January 31, 2005  -  9:39 PM Reply with quote
You talked to them in a good way with reasonable arguments. I liked your refrigerator logic, however to that they will say that let the infidels work hard on technology and we will reap the rewards of their work, meanwhile let us concentrate on religion only. This answer left me stunned and speechless. I do not know what can be done to cure the society of such a thinking.
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Monday, January 31, 2005  -  11:39 PM Reply with quote
>> but you should not be harsh against them.

Any person who has double standards, who preaches one thing and fails to live upto the promise of the level his post demands of him, deserves no respect. Infact I will condemn that person with all the harshest tools at my disposal. You do realize that the faith of many is at jeopardy because of the ill begotten theories these Mullahs preach.

child molestations is mosques, child beating, woman beating and what not, some of them deserve to be banished from the Islamic society.
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Tuesday, February 01, 2005  -  7:13 AM Reply with quote
compare these mullahs with Belgium's King Albert (an infidel in their tongues)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4223307.stm

It was a traumatic action to undertake. She cried for hours that day.

"It was very, very difficult. It was like a piece of me was taken away. The whole day I felt bad," said Naima.

Belgium's King Albert was on holiday in France and saw a report about events in Ledegen on television. He contacted the factory and invited Rik and Naima - in headscarf - to the royal palace for a televised audience.

For the king, it was important to send a message out that religious intolerance was unacceptable.
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, February 02, 2005  -  5:17 PM Reply with quote
Asalam Aalaikum

I have seen some students from Madrasas,who only know how to read Qur'an and pray namaz, and part from this they donot possess any background knowledge about Islam and cannot clarify the misconceptions about Islam.

I have seen some students who graduate from Madrasas and donot even know who was Iblees? some of them still think that he was an angel and most of them present their arguments in the light of Hadiths instead of using the Qur'an in their argument.


You cannot expect academic and satisfactory arguments from them in debates.
The argument should be based on evidences and rules of logic,it should not cross the boundaries discipline and should not contradict the common sense of an individual.

Regards,
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, February 04, 2005  -  12:51 AM Reply with quote
“A BAD NAME IS WORSE THAN BAD DEEDS” and black sheep are present everywhere.

We communicate with one another all over the world. How many readers are in the world who are familiar with the word or term “Mullah”? I suggest to translate it for every one for better understanding and hiding this nightmare responsible for the clenching and gritting of teeth with somnambulism.

How can we assess that the celebrities, say “Classical Mullahs” or “ Pop Mullahs” are correct, to follow? Suppose the “Classical Mullahs” are illiterate then what qualifications, trainings and thinking the “Pop Mullahs” have and from which institution and approved by which Government? According to me both the Mullahs are absolutely unacceptable but they may do something collectively (Two hands clap and one hand slap), if sincere and have fear of God.

According to their religious knowledge and practice many people are more illiterate even than the Mullahs blamed. They are never or least interested in the religion. So what are the reasons in spites of the independence of above five decades? On the other hand I think that we can never scavenge the false believes by first hurting then making them stubborn and more resistant like mountains only from where the fountains arise. We must have to create a space and respect in our hearts to mould and motivate. Can we convince someone by burning their thoughts and humiliating them first as a first line strategy say “By hook or crook”? The offender’s folly seems to supersede those of the others. We have to create tolerance to win and rule their hearts; if we intend sincerely to convey the messages otherwise it is just a wastage of time and creating a resistant poison of hatred and subjecting ourselves to grandiose, paranoid and persecutory delusions.

I can’t understand “The people are already enjoying, freely without any ban, all the rights for which they are fighting and then what is this uproar”? Regarding the women rights, I think nobody is reluctant to accept them. Which rights do the women want? Is there any ban on removing the unwanted hair? Are they not enjoying music, movies etc? Are there not TV, VCR, and VCD etc in every home? Are they not travelling alone? The main problem seems to be the inheritance. Many women are deliberately reluctant to take their shares and willingly leave behind with their brothers. In most of the cases their husbands force them at gunpoint to get their shares. On contrary the inheritance must be distributed as our religion teaches and if the woman leaves her share, she kills the right of those who are the partners of her inheritance. Most of the husbands with their income, decline more to their wives than they do to the parents and what do the wives want more in the society. Regarding the women testimony, do they really want to go to the courts to wait on the benches as long as the decision is made and as far as the case is shifted to the other courts? I have seen some women for the witnesses not men, in the courts, with a row of drops tripping over the cheeks wiping with the hyper extended palm. Some girls do the same during their viva voce examination. By the way, what is the reason that in a country like USA there is not even a single example of woman president, in its whole history?

MORAL: “TWO HANDS CLAP AND ONE HAND SLAP”

QUOTE: A true Muslim would be outraged at these atrocities & I emphasise the word TRUE MUSLIM.

Frankly speaking, these atrocities are condemned and charged by all the religions. So what is the line of demarcation between “A true Muslim” and “A true non Muslim”?

Wassalam
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Sunday, February 06, 2005  -  9:04 PM Reply with quote
Frankly speaking, these atrocities are condemned and charged by all the religions. So what is the line of demarcation between “A true Muslim” and “A true non Muslim”?

You are correct to point my error. My non - Muslim reference was intended for the Mullahs not the wider non Muslim community
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, February 07, 2005  -  1:05 AM Reply with quote
Thank you,

This is not the answer of my question as I have asked in general. Kindly think in a wider spectrum.

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