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Topic initiated on Friday, November 12, 2004  -  1:51 AM Reply with quote
Are we going to do something?

‘There are always those who take it upon themselves to defend God, as if Ultimate Reality, as if the sustaining frame of existence, were something weak and helpless. These people walk by a widow deformed by leprosy begging for a few paise, walk by children dressed in rags living in the street, and they think, “Business as usual.” But if they perceive a slight against God, it is a different story. Their faces go red, their chests heave mightily, they sputter angry words…’

Quote from 'Life of Pi'.

If some of us are in position of power, can we help in this case? Voice against these foul Mullahs and send them with their foul deeds into the ABYSS.

6-year-old boy allegedly assaulted by maulvi a week ago: Maulvis pressuring family to withdraw molestation case

By Waqar Gillani

LAHORE: Religious groups are pressing the family of a six-year-old boy, who was allegedly sexually abused by his Quran teacher, not to pursue a case against him.


Edited by: junaidj on Friday, November 12, 2004 1:53 AM

Posted - Friday, November 12, 2004  -  2:35 PM Reply with quote

Assalaamu Alaikum.

Politically speaking - and I'll tell you why - if you are inclined towards the right and in a position of power, you would like to collide head-on with the mullahs; if you're towards the left, on the other hand, you'd like to curb all seeds that empower the doctrine of 'maulvi-ism'.

Here's why I began with possible political solutions to the problem, in the modern world. I want to know, what, according to you, would be closest to the spirit of Islam? Being:

i) Rightist;
ii) Leftist;
iii) An amalgam of the two; or
iv) Some other option.



Edited by: saadiamalik on Friday, November 12, 2004 2:36 PM

Posted - Saturday, November 13, 2004  -  7:22 AM Reply with quote
Dear Saadia,

I am not politically active as of yet. As such I barely know what differentiates the right from the left or the liberals from the conservatives, or the democrats from the republicans or for that matter the green party et al.

However, I do feel strongly about issues. And even if currently I am unable to do something, I encourage others to at least think about them.

It is quite pathetic to witness some of the most stringent of characters coming onto the studying-islam and its sister websites with their load full of bigotry.

My task is to simply rattle them, make them evaluate their stances, look at their own failings and of their illustrious scholars (who by no means were as holy as they pretend they were), and that is about it.

Several of my friends come from elite backgrounds, I rattle them with newspaper clippings, urging them to do something perchance one of them might end up helping some girl or boy in a remote village or so.

That is all I do on our website and the same is what I end up doing here. We have a chance to do something, monetarily, emotionally or otherwise.

I write, sometimes help financially, and I encourage my friends to do the same.

On this website, I encourage folks to respect difference of opinion no matter how divergent as long as it lies within the ambit of the Shariah.

I suppose I have rambled enough :)

PS: If anyone molests a child, no matter who it is, I want justice to be meted out to that scoundrel. There is no left or right or liberal or conservative thing about it.

Edited by: junaidj on Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:52 AM

Posted - Saturday, November 13, 2004  -  8:33 AM Reply with quote
Yes,we must do sth.Every day the sight of sth revolting,sth pathetic moves me to tears.A decrepit old porter staggering under the burden of a sack,
a little cherub of a kid,cleaning up tables in restaurent,an old woman,dressed in tattered clothes,
begging on the road side,the highly-talented boy with a sheaf of degrees and certificates,roaming the city to find a decent job.I want to help all these people,to help them clamber out of the pit of squalor and poverty,but i can,t and it makes me fume with rage,at our politicians,at our leaders.
We must do sth.Allah can help them but He wants to try us,to test our resolves.But how should we help them.Let us think.Let us start.We must do our bit!
A journeyn of thousand miles start from a single step!

Posted - Saturday, November 13, 2004  -  9:18 AM Reply with quote
>>Let us think.Let us start.We must do our bit!
A journeyn of thousand miles start from a single step!

Dear Aslam,

Amidst all the bigotry that happens here, you are like a whiff of fresh wind for me. Thank God for your existence.

If a person is financially strong, one may want to help one child with his education, or help the local guardsman (chowkidaar), or janitor with his medicines etc etc.

If one knows lawyers, one might want to ask them if they can help subdue the pressure from the foul Maulvis in the child abuse case.

By any means, any manner one can help. One must.

Even the smallest person can change the course of the future.

If a person is neither financially, politically, creatively or in any other manner strong, then he can at least exchange good humour and encouragement with the downtrod or the crippled or the forsaken.

Edited by: junaidj on Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:25 AM

Posted - Saturday, November 13, 2004  -  10:11 AM Reply with quote

Assalaamu Alaikum:

Both your sentiments are pure and laudable. The spirit to help, to make a difference, must always be there. Most of us are all too busy thinking about our ownselves, bettering our own comforts, and unfortunately, fasting doesn't seem to change that - at least, the moment Ramadan ends, our festivities begin and we only end up helping ourselves getting ever more directed towards our own personal aspirations - regardless of whether someone is allowed to become worse off, or better off, as a result.

The reason why I asked for the approach that you deem to be the best one, in order to deal with issues of bigotry and harassment is, because there is no one way. Essentially, what I'm trying to ask is: would it be more fruitful to punish the perpetrators right away, or to strike at the roots of everything and anything that gives them their evil powers, or to find an amalgam of the two?

Ideas and motivation are the first steps towards reformation. Let's talk more about the practicalities (as Junaid said, he writes, contributes financially where he can, induces his friends, etc.).



Posted - Sunday, November 14, 2004  -  5:43 AM Reply with quote
>> would it be more fruitful to punish the perpetrators right away, or to strike at the roots of everything and anything that gives them their evil powers, or to find an amalgam of the two?

In my opinion somethings are clearly condemnable. Honor Killing, child abuse, acid spiling are on the top. Any maulvi or anyone else for that matter indulging in it, must be punsihed severely. These things do not require education to know that they are wrong.

Other than that to curb bigotry, that is what I hope to do here as do most folks associated with Renaissance. The approach here, in my opinion, would be through education and critical evaluation. [You already know this :)

I suppose then an amalgam of the two approaches depending on the issue at hand.

PS: The government has banned Jihadi recruitment offices, a step in the right direction. They might want to consider outlawing preaching that incites violence as well against any faction, or religion.

No one should be allowed to tap at doors to listen to their religious spiels. We have had enough of those.

Edited by: junaidj on Sunday, November 14, 2004 7:07 AM

Posted - Monday, November 15, 2004  -  7:16 AM Reply with quote
>>a better way to convince 'taqlidis' would be to address them sympathetically. I can imagine if anyone were to act offensive about my beliefs straight up, I wouldn't pay him/her much attention

Respect earns respect. If Taqlidis can show a basic level of decency, I am quite willing to engage with them. If all they do is resort to condemnations and flared up responses, as if the other person were an animal, then from my part they can go back to the abyss.

I respect people's beliefs, no matter how queer for us, even if it be dog worshipping, however, glorifying murder is what I can never tolerate.

We all draw lines at some point. I have mine drawn at human decency and tolerance.

PS: Damn. I am sorry Saadia, I think I have erased your reply. I have to get used to the difference bewteen the editing and replying buttons. Sorry.

Edited by: junaidj on Monday, November 15, 2004 8:45 AM

Posted - Monday, November 15, 2004  -  8:19 AM Reply with quote
My inability to cope with the buttons has erased your response. See above. My apologies.

Edited by: junaidj on Monday, November 15, 2004 8:27 AM

Posted - Monday, November 15, 2004  -  12:54 PM Reply with quote

My inability to cope with the buttons has erased your response. See above. My apologies.

Well, yes! You have managed to erase my response. "Damn!" Haha...no big issue. I'll try and see if I can retrieve that from my cache. If not, the world hasn't lost much more than it already has.

By the way, you added your comments to my post, with the end result that your response above seems to come from me. :)

As for the assertion that some people won't take difference of opinion very gracefully and keep being snobbish, heed can be taken from the Qur'an itself, where the prophet is told not to worry about those who don't listen; that such from among the people are not his responsibility. A good tactic in that case would be to ignore them, after an initial sincere attempt, and focus on those who show respect for arguments picked up from the primary sources - the Qur'an and Sunnah.



Edited by: saadiamalik on Monday, November 15, 2004 12:57 PM

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