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The Qur'an and the Sunnah
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[quote]Dear Brother Samsher, Quote:- [size=2]Waooo……lastly you agreed that your theory of FIVE REGULAR PRAYERS in a day is wrong. Sabash![/size=2] Well I've NOT agreed Even a Little bit w U & I've Not said that "the theory of FIVE REGULAR PRAYERS in a day is wrong". Plz NOTE that I Just said that ONLY for U I do not want to INSIST at the Moment on word FIVE regarding Regular Prayers. Quote:- [size=2]Tahajjad BiHi” means MEDITATE WITH IT(Qur’an)…….not ”in it”…… the words for “in it” in Arabic are Fi Hi …… but the words in 17.79 are Bi Hi ……tahajjad means MEDIDATE……… it is not a salat ……. THE WORD FOR SALAT IN THE QUR’AN IS SIMPLY ‘SALAT’. Don’t try to corrupt the Qur’an brother and not to invent a salat, which is not authorized by God.[/size=2] Well, at the moment I do NOT want to SAY some MORE on "Tahajjad BiHee or FeeHi" as it was my Supplimentary Argument. I want to insist that "tahajjad does NOT mean MEDIDATATION" & especially after the MENTIONING of regular PRAYERS (Salat) in 17:78 it's NOT Possible to take Meaning of Tahajjud OTHER than SALAT (had there been any other Meaning) according to "the PRINCIPLES of Language". I'm NOT Sure "HOW u people Understand Quran" if NOT according to "the PRINCIPLES of Language". So same Advice 4 U too i.e. "Don’t try to corrupt the Qur’an" Quote:- Plz Think upon the words "YOUR" in the Verse. it's addressing Prophet Only not US. [size=2]>>>What a logic!!!! Then do you believe that Almighty Allah had given two orders, one is for his messenger that he should observe/perform his salat in one way i.e. with maintaining moderate tone and another is for us that we should observe our salat in another way i.e. with maintaining mixed tone? Waooooooo…![/size=2] Well, STRANGE is your LOGIC. If Almighty Allah HIMSELF is Giving 2 orders; ----- 1st for His messenger that he should observe/perform his (Speical) Salat of Night (Tahajjud) with maintaining moderate tone and 2nd order for us ALL (including the Prophet) that we should observe our Salat with maintaining mixed tone ----- THEN what WE can DO other than to FOLLOW His orders. Quote:-[size=2]Do you have any proof in support of your opinion. Please show this from the Qur’an. Almighty Allah says that Qur’an is FULLY DETAILED, HE also says that HE did not leave anything out of This Book(Qur’an), but you are saying otherwise i.e. “Fully Detailed means here All those MINIMUM Details”!!! Which hadith should we believe brother? Yours or Almighty Allah’s? [6:38] All the creatures on earth, and all the birds that fly with wings, are communities like you. WE DID NOT LEAVE ANYTHING OUT OF THIS BOOK. To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned.[/size=2] Well, Plz see its Previous Verse [6:37] & consider the words "And they said: 'why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord'?" & [6:38] is clearly showing that the Demanded SIGNs are Present in the Universe & Quran has Not Left Any SIGN too. Well IF We Follow "the PRINCIPLES of Language" & Take full Care of the CONTEXT, one cannot TAKE any OTHER meaning of [6:38] Quote:- Well, 1st of All U shud at least Understand that to Me, at least, Men-Made Hadith & God-Given Sunnah are NOT same things & Hadith is NOT a Source of Islam & Can Never be whereas SUNNAH is. [size=2]>>>Where it is said in the Qur’an, brother that men-made sunnah is the religious source of islam besides The Nobel Qur’an? At first you should show at least one proof from the Qur’an in support of your opinion to all the viewers of this forum. You refused all hadith to take as religious source of Islam because there is not even a single proof in the Qur’an in support of these men-made hdith, then with the same logic you should also discard men-made sunnah to take them as religious source of islam. But, you don’t do that rather you propagate this idea that ‘we should take men-made sunnah as religious sunnah’!!! WHY? Show proof from the Qur’an in support of your thinking.[/size=2] You AGAIN r NOT ready Even 2 THINK 4 a While that WHY on earth I'm CONSISTANTLY differing between Hadith & Sunnah; 1st is Men-Made BUT 2nd is GOD-Given. If U'll NOT take My point then, I'm afraid, Our WHOLE discussion will END in SMOKE. so Plz, for God sake, If U r REALLY interested in Understanding My Point of View AT LEAST, then PLZ Take SUNNAH as I'm Taking it, AT LEAST in My Posts. At the Moment U r NOT doing SO Bcoz Whenever I say God-Given Sunnah, U change it to Men-Made Sunnah taken from Abu Huraira etc. WHEREAS no way I'm taking it Like that. That's why U r NOT able to understand that Why I refuse all hadith to take as religious source of Islam & Why I still INSIST that SUNNAH is a religious source of Islam & U'll remain in this Dilemma Unless & Untill U try to understand the Difference PRESENT in the Hadith & Sunnah. At least Try to understand that WHY the BOTH r NOT SAME in the Opinion of Whole Muslimm Ummah. & I've said Earlier that in sha Allah I'll Give U More than one PROOF from the Qur’an in support of this opinion BUT 1st U shud become Able to Appriciate it & at the Moment U r NOT & also U r NOT understanding that My Logic is NOT same for Hadith & Sunnah. Quote:-[size=2] I told in this forum again & again that what the whole Ummah believe & do are not the subject of discussion here. The subject here is whether we should accept any outside source besides Qur’an as a religious source of Islam or not. Qur’an says that we should accept only IT as religious source of Islam and IT also says that majority always follow conjecture and conjecture is no substitute for the truth.[/size=2] Well, Brother Here TOO u r again NOT even trying to understanding the REAL argument. OK leave the Whole Ummah & let's Make this CONFLICT between U & Me only. I do Hope that U also Believe in that "The Quran was revealed to Muhammad (pbuh) 1426 yrs Ago." If Yes then Tell ME "HOW Quran has Reached in YOUR Hands?" My Pt. of View is that it has Reached "ME" thru the "TWATUR" (Continuty) & "IJMAA" (Consensus) of Muslim Ummah & with Quran the Practical Portion of Islam; the God-Given SUNNAH of the Prophet (pbuh) has Reached ME Exactly the SAME way, so there is NO reason 4 ME to Differ in the Both. Plz tell us YOUR Precise Pt. of View in This Regard & What U want say in REJECTING my Aurgumnt. HERE u'll HAVE to Leave What Quran says in your SUPPORT & u'll HAVE to TELL Me 1st that "FROM WHERE THIS QURAN HAS COME TO U"??? Quote:- [size=2] I have told you again & again that The Qur’an is received from God and not from your Ijma, twatir…..etc. as you claimed. The hadith and sunna we received from people like Abu Huraira and other hadith fabricators, which came through your so called ijhma………... If you believe the words of Allah in the Qur’an and if you believe that Qur’an is sufficient for you, then you should not follow anything other than the Qur’an.[/size=2] Wait a Minut Plz. Yes u r RIGHT "that The Qur’an is received from God" BUT tell me plz WHO has received This Qur’an from God? It's U or Muhammad (pbuh). If Muhammad (pbuh) then AGAIN comes my SAME Q that "HOW THIS QURAN HAS REACHED U"??? I repeat "REACHED U"??? & DON"T change My Words. I've NEVER claimed that Hadith has Come thru Ijma etc. I've said Repeatedly that Besides Quran only Sunnah has Come this Way & I'll CARRY ON saying that Just Bcoz it's a HISTORICAL FACT & only BLIND People Can DARE to DENY it. Quote:- [size=2][blue]It's NOT Enough for a BOOK to be taken as God-Given JUST Bcoz that we have found WRITTEN in that Book that it's a WORD of God. & I hope U people Do NOT Receive this Quran from God DIRECTLY & It's NOT revealed Today to Mr. Rashd Khalifah OR to someone ELSE.[/blue] >>>This question by you in actual fact expose your idolatry. You claim that you believe the Qur’an because the Prophet Muhammad said so and people like Abu Huraira and other hadith fabricators that it is word of God! [/size=2] Dear Brother I OPENLY accept My idolatry But then U shud Accept Yours TOO the SAME WAY. plz Tell me WHERE I've Claimed what U've said ABOVE. U r Delibrately or Due to Some Other UNKNOWN reasons again & again CHANGING my words. True Discussion DEAMNDs TRUE PRESENTATION of the OPPOSITE Argument. I've Described again Today What I claim, so plz, I beg, Read it CAREFULLY & then Give WHATEVER comment U want to Give on that. [size=2]>>>I amazed to know that in one side you said that you did not accept any hadith to take as source of islam, but in other side you accept [red]mem-made sunnah [/red] as source of islam. How can you know that prophet Muhammad practiced this or that? Form Qur’an or from fabricated hadith e.g. You prayed Salat 5 times in a day. From where did you get this information? From hadith or from Qur’an? If your answer is that you got this information from your parents, which came through generation after generation, ijma, twatir………etc. etc. then I ask you what is/should be the criteria(furqan) by using which we can judge this information whether it is right or wrong?[/size=2] Well, U'll Remain in AMUZEMENT as Long as U'll carry on describing Sunnah as Men-Made. Nevertheless Plz Note that "the criteria(furqan) by using which we can judge this information whether it is right or wrong" is the Consensus (Ijmaa) of Muslim Ummah thru which Quran & Sunnah BOTH has Reached us; One is God-Given Words & the Other is God-Given Practices. [size=2]>>>Everything (information) that comes from other than God i.e. your ijma, twatir…..etc. is full of contradictions according to the above verse. Moreover, Qur’an forbade us from blind following.[/size=2] U r TOTALLY wrong my Brother. there is NO CANTRADICTION in the WORDS of Quran & U agree with it. NOW plz Note that "there is absolutely NO CONTRADICTION in the SUNNAH too. I can Even BET upon it Had it been not Haraam. BUT to Understand that U'll HAVE to Acknowledge the DIFFERENCE present in HADITH & SUNNAH. [size=2]>>>Sadly, you are relying on hadith to prove the Qur’an. You are a sad loser.[/size=2] There's Nothing to LOSE or Even become SAD as NOWHERE I've Depended on Hadith to prove the Qur’an. [size=2]>>>Now after the discovery of the miracle we have even further evidence that the Qur’an is the word of God and this is one of the functions of the miracles to strengthen the faith of the believers who already believe.[/size=2] Well it's VVV strange 4 ME that U do not believe in God-Given Sunnah & U believe in a MAN-MADE (not even Men-Made) so called Discovery That NOT Covers the Whole Quran Present b4 it. U have to Minus at least TWO verses to CLAIM that the Discovery is Correct. One Can at least say that How WEEK is that Miracle!!! Brother this is STILL a Burning Q that "If NOT from the Ijma & Twatur" then "What's the PROOF w YOU that this Quran is God-Given"??? Quote:- [size=2]We don’t require any historical proof to prove Almighty Allah’s claim. Almighty Allah says that He gave only Qur’an to Muhammad and this should be sufficient for all believers.[/size=2] So at Last U too believe that Qur’an was Given to Muhammad (pbuh) So How it Had Come in ur hands??? Quote:- [size=2]Now I ask you how these 19 Angels can do disturb the disbelievers, how these (no.19) can convince the Christians & Jews, how these can do strengthen the faith of the faithfull………. How can, Guardians of Hell, do all the things in this would after all we can’t see them(19-Angels) while living in this world?[/size=2] Dear, Guardians of Hell ONLY Guards the HELL & Nothing Else. & as Only 19 Angels Do that, So it's ENOUGHF for The All Purposes Described in the Verse. Regards Edited by: ibrahim on Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:07 AM[/quote]
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